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Old 08-03-2011, 19:15   #1276
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Hello Boatman.
A quick question here. I have looked and seen all over the internet that setting a anchor does require an engine. Pull in to anchorage, toss the anchor, put the engine in reverse, and anchor is set when boat stops moving, and shouldn't release.
So how do you do it when not having a engine. I am sure it is done all the time but is it as safe?
Also
I like what you said about turning in close proximity to boats. I think I'm going to practice practice practice that on the Bay. Any other ways to turn on a dime? And what about getting a sailboat to go backwards under sail?
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Old 08-03-2011, 19:49   #1277
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Step one: drop anchor.

Step two: secure rode.
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Old 08-03-2011, 20:10   #1278
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pirate Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by w1651 View Post
Hello Boatman.
A quick question here. I have looked and seen all over the internet that setting a anchor does require an engine. Pull in to anchorage, toss the anchor, put the engine in reverse, and anchor is set when boat stops moving, and shouldn't release.
So how do you do it when not having a engine. I am sure it is done all the time but is it as safe?
I'm a better demonstrator than trying to explain here but I'll give it a go... basically I'll sail into an anchorage and roll in 60% of the Genny to slow me down... if its blowing I'll furl it all... poodle around and pick my spot then make my approach about 70deg into the wind furling in any remaining Genny... when I get to where I want near enough I'll head to wind to stall her.. let go the main sheet and go forward and drop the hook... by the time its hit bottom the boats starting to fall away.. but not to fast as the main is feathering.. I let it run by hand about 10m then hold till weight comes on and then another 10m and hold till the head swings back into wind almost... repeat till the required length then cleat the chain and hold till shes head to wind... tidy the foredeck and sheet in a bit of the main... then drop and stow the main.. I use the weight of boat and wind to do what the others do with their engines..
Being an old buga who learnt to sail on 27 - 32ft boats with nothing but oars served me well... the guy who taught me started sailing in 1898.. and he did not have a BRUCE or rocna... just an old Admiralty anchor..
It works well for me.. but it takes practice and... handballing not winches.. you need to feel whats happening.. anchors & chain talk.
Oh.. and another thing.. this can only be done up to a certain size... largest I've done it on was a Hunter 37.. for the 2yrs I owned her.. depths important to.. wieght of chain and anchor..lol
Also
I like what you said about turning in close proximity to boats. I think I'm going to practice practice practice that on the Bay. Any other ways to turn on a dime? And what about getting a sailboat to go backwards under sail?
Now thats exclusive to canoe sterned cats like Wharrams.. I found out by accident on my test sail of my 1st Tiki which was a 26ftr.. the owner cast of the mooring and I sat at the tiller waiting for it to fall off the wind like a mono... then I realised the boat to port that was overtaking us was actually still on her mooring... we were doing 4kts astern and increasing..
I shoved the tiller over, the wind filled the main and we shot away... I was hooked.. we were doing 6kts under main alone in 100yds.. when I unfurled the Genny we went up to 10kts... it was better than a 'boner'...
After that it was just a case of refining sail control and finding out what she could do... light weight helps as the wind head on brakes them quicker than a mono.. turn to port and head the wind... then just ease the tiller over and she'll reverse to stbd and as soon as the wind catches the main sheet the Genny in and away you go... on your opposite heading.. freaks out the mono guys...
Now for a different beast
With a Mono the trick is learning to sail your boat slowly and under total control.. knowing where the wind flukes are.. best sail combos under different conditions.. with practice you'll be able to sail up to your mooring and stall her just as the bouys kissing your bow and have enough time to go forward and hook the painter..
Its just down to practice and bonding with your boat.. it takes time and patience.. keep your engine in neutral tickover till you get the feel..
Better safe than sorry is good seamanship.. but the day will come when it comes together.. and when it does... man its so sweet..
But.. wait until you get it right at least 20 times in succession before you do it without the engine.. and always make a couple of passes first.. one each way so's you get the feel of both the wind and tide.. 4 things need to mix in perfect synchrony for success.. boat, wind,tide and you..
Hope thats of some help..
One other thing... don't try it Capn Ron style.. it don't work
Slow and steady..
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Old 09-03-2011, 02:50   #1279
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

My uncle pulled the engine out of his oyster dredger years ago, and its moored in the middle of loads of tupperware, never bothers him.

The outboard in the picture is a recent addition that rarely gets used.
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Old 09-03-2011, 07:07   #1280
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by Artif View Post
My uncle pulled the engine out of his oyster dredger years ago, and its moored in the middle of loads of tupperware, never bothers him.
and is probably half the fun

Quote:




The outboard in the picture is a recent addition that rarely gets used.

The secret to engineless cruising.

an engine


Awesome boat even more awesome bowsprit
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Old 09-03-2011, 09:28   #1281
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Now thats exclusive to canoe sterned cats like Wharrams.. I found out by accident on my test sail of my 1st Tiki which was a 26ftr.. the owner cast of the mooring and I sat at the tiller waiting for it to fall off the wind like a mono... then I realised the boat to port that was overtaking us was actually still on her mooring... we were doing 4kts astern and increasing..
I shoved the tiller over, the wind filled the main and we shot away... I was hooked.. we were doing 6kts under main alone in 100yds.. when I unfurled the Genny we went up to 10kts... it was better than a 'boner'...
After that it was just a case of refining sail control and finding out what she could do... light weight helps as the wind head on brakes them quicker than a mono.. turn to port and head the wind... then just ease the tiller over and she'll reverse to stbd and as soon as the wind catches the main sheet the Genny in and away you go... on your opposite heading.. freaks out the mono guys...
Now for a different beast
With a Mono the trick is learning to sail your boat slowly and under total control.. knowing where the wind flukes are.. best sail combos under different conditions.. with practice you'll be able to sail up to your mooring and stall her just as the bouys kissing your bow and have enough time to go forward and hook the painter..
Its just down to practice and bonding with your boat.. it takes time and patience.. keep your engine in neutral tickover till you get the feel..
Better safe than sorry is good seamanship.. but the day will come when it comes together.. and when it does... man its so sweet..
But.. wait until you get it right at least 20 times in succession before you do it without the engine.. and always make a couple of passes first.. one each way so's you get the feel of both the wind and tide.. 4 things need to mix in perfect synchrony for success.. boat, wind,tide and you..
Hope thats of some help..
One other thing... don't try it Capn Ron style.. it don't work
Slow and steady..
Thank you boat man!
I will be out practicing this in open water in our Bay. The Bay here is not very deep in locations and wide open. I thought I would drop a brick tied to a water jug and just keep practicing coming up on it like a mooring from all directions using different sails and sail combinations.
Practice makes perfect you know...

Thanks again...
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Old 09-03-2011, 09:37   #1282
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artif View Post
My uncle pulled the engine out of his oyster dredger years ago, and its moored in the middle of loads of tupperware, never bothers him.

The outboard in the picture is a recent addition that rarely gets used.
I'm with Dave on that Bow Spirit.
Does that Sailboat have one heck of a Bowspirit or is it just happy to be sailing? Talk about sportin some wood. I'm Jealouse !
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Old 09-03-2011, 12:56   #1283
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
and is probably half the fun




The secret to engineless cruising.

an engine


Awesome boat even more awesome bowsprit
It's his working boat, he's out in it most days. One of the few Falmouth oyster dredgers left, and the boat is over 100 years old.
Shame the only picture I could find had a bloody outboard hanging off the back, the only time I've ever seen it with an engine
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Old 10-03-2011, 10:06   #1284
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by w1651 View Post
Hello Boatman.
A quick question here. I have looked and seen all over the internet that setting a anchor does require an engine. Pull in to anchorage, toss the anchor, put the engine in reverse, and anchor is set when boat stops moving, and shouldn't release.
So how do you do it when not having a engine. I am sure it is done all the time but is it as safe?
Also
I like what you said about turning in close proximity to boats. I think I'm going to practice practice practice that on the Bay. Any other ways to turn on a dime? And what about getting a sailboat to go backwards under sail?
Setting an anchor without an engine is performed as follows:

a) reach across to the desired spot using reduced sail, generally the staysail alone on a cutter.

b) drop the anchor at the desired spot and veer sufficient cable for the depth.

c) let boat momentum stretch out the cable until taut. Turn into wind.

d) furl sail. You are anchored.

For a more detailed version, I refer you to Boatman's very explicit instructions.

INDY
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Old 10-03-2011, 12:57   #1285
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by goprisko View Post
Setting an anchor without an engine is performed as follows:
a) reach across to the desired spot using reduced sail, generally the staysail alone on a cutter.
b) drop the anchor at the desired spot and veer sufficient cable for the depth.
c) let boat momentum stretch out the cable until taut. Turn into wind.
d) furl sail. You are anchored.
For a more detailed version, I refer you to Boatman's very explicit instructions.
INDY
If you think you need to "set" the anchor on a boat without an engine then add a step "C-1" to the above. That involves after the anchor rode is stretched out you deploy the staysail or better yet the foresail (jib or genoa) and backwind it. That is, you bring the sheet over to the upwind/windward side. (Do not use the mainsail as this will just move the boat forward after it turns into the wind.) The back-winded foresail/headsail will put the boat into "reverse gear" and will "set" the anchor. Of course you have to intelligently put out enough foresail to set the anchor but not so much as you pull the anchor out of the bottom.
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Old 10-03-2011, 14:04   #1286
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pirate Re: $500 per Month . . .Graduate level

I'm not one to start trouble but here's what I saw with my own two blues:
Back in the last century I crewed on an Evelyn 32, an ultralight race boat in a Miami to Lauderdale race. The owner had hired a local ringer, Skeeter, to drive the boat. We did well in the race...pause for applause... and then headed inshore under the main down a canal or two to the LYC.

The owner, banker Dave, was squirming up and down wanting us to put on the 4 hp ob, stowed below for races, on the boat for docking. Skeeter waved him off. Dave was close to frantic as we approached as he had already witnessed Skeeter and others consuming serious quantities of herb and more than a couple of brews with hops in them during the race.

As I realized where our slip was, I noticed it would a downwind approach immediately around a turn but we were just ghosting along in little wind. I thought to myself "well watch Skeeter and learn something tgzzzz", but in a mellow, cool, yachtsman kind of way... man. Instead of turning starboard, and then again, into the slip, however, Skeeter turned to port into the wind and casually asked Owner Dave to hold the main out on the rail. The boat stopped quickly enough, and then began astern and we backed into the slip in irons, arrested by the bare foot of Skeeter on the dock.

This was witnessed by a lot of people, and Skeeter couldn't buy a beer after that. Perhaps this is routine for many of you, and I can do it in a pram, but I submit that the engineless cruiser should sail this well or aspire to.
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Old 10-03-2011, 14:19   #1287
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Or sail slowly downwind, pick your spot and kick the anchor ove, keep sailing, when the anchor sets you will spin like a top head to wind, drop sails.
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Old 10-03-2011, 21:09   #1288
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Or sail slowly downwind, pick your spot and kick the anchor ove, keep sailing, when the anchor sets you will spin like a top head to wind, drop sails.
Yep, this does work. Even tried it once. But, on a boat with no bowsprit, the chain does a nasty to the topsides near the bow. I was distressed. Perhaps better technique would have avoided this trauma.

But it will sorta set the anchor.

Still, the consensus arrived upon in the many anchoring threads on CF is that setting should include a long, steady pull to really dig the anchor in, and to test the quality of the holding. The one quick jerk (on the rode, not the boat operator) is inadequate for that purpose. Backing a sail is better, but unlikely to put as heavy a load on the anchor as the engine could.

As always, YMMV.
Cheers,

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Old 11-03-2011, 07:15   #1289
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pirate Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Hi Jim...
The way I do it is let go the mainsheet while still in the turn and go forward to drop the hook... this way the 1st 10m runs out fast and just of to one side... don't really want it going straight under and running along the keel.. by this time the boats nearly stopped... hold the chain until its straighted and you feel the weight as the anchor starts to bite... then feed out another 10m and wait for weight again and hold a tad longer release another 10m then cleat... tidy up while keeping an eye out for drag... if she does 10m more.. she'll then sit fine in normal conditions..
Windy weather I'd increase each feed by 5m... get the initial bite at a better angle..
Each type of boat will behave differently so you have to find the best approach and contralability for yours by practicing in a clear area... if an offset bow roller only approach from the one side.... make sure you've got ample fall back room if you don't hold 1st time... some bottoms are tough to bed in.. even with an engine.
You've only sail so keep an exit plan in mind to sail around and try again... rarely have to except in places like Andratx, Majorca which has a hard bottom with fissures and the trick is knowing how the fissures run and dropping so's you land the hook in or favourable to drop in one...
Sorry if the attempted explanation is crap.. not brilliant with words...
Also its another reason I love the roller furler.... clear decks to work on if coming in under sail... having a hank on Jib/Genny in the way can be a real PITA on small boats like Corribees and Hurleys.... shoot it'd have been a PITA on my Hunter 37....
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Old 12-03-2011, 12:02   #1290
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Micro-Budget Cruising . . .Graduate level

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgzzzz View Post
I'm not one to start trouble but here's what I saw with my own two blues:
Back in the last century I crewed on an Evelyn 32, an ultralight race boat in a Miami to Lauderdale race. The owner had hired a local ringer, Skeeter, to drive the boat. We did well in the race...pause for applause... and then headed inshore under the main down a canal or two to the LYC.

The owner, banker Dave, was squirming up and down wanting us to put on the 4 hp ob, stowed below for races, on the boat for docking. Skeeter waved him off. Dave was close to frantic as we approached as he had already witnessed Skeeter and others consuming serious quantities of herb and more than a couple of brews with hops in them during the race.

As I realized where our slip was, I noticed it would a downwind approach immediately around a turn but we were just ghosting along in little wind. I thought to myself "well watch Skeeter and learn something tgzzzz", but in a mellow, cool, yachtsman kind of way... man. Instead of turning starboard, and then again, into the slip, however, Skeeter turned to port into the wind and casually asked Owner Dave to hold the main out on the rail. The boat stopped quickly enough, and then began astern and we backed into the slip in irons, arrested by the bare foot of Skeeter on the dock.

This was witnessed by a lot of people, and Skeeter couldn't buy a beer after that. Perhaps this is routine for many of you, and I can do it in a pram, but I submit that the engineless cruiser should sail this well or aspire to.
I agree that the Micro-budget cruiser should aspire to sail this well...

Aspirations begin with practice.....

The best vehicle for practice is a hard sailing dink.

Mistakes cause little or no lasting damage, and generally can be fixed with a coat of paint. Pushing the boom to weather is a matter of fingertip pressure. Maneuverability is so good you can turn the dink around in her own length.

As I recommended earlier, one of the micro-budget cruiser's first acquisitions should be a hard sailing dink which he then sails as much as possible.

Once that boat is mastered his next boat should be a 16-20 ft daysailor like the Rhodes 19 or the Lightning. A boat of this size begins to show characteristics of a much larger boat, but the forces remain small. A boat of this size is perfect for introducing an adult woman to sailing. It is small enough for her to be able to comfortably do anything and everything. It is responsive enough to teach her what works and what doesn't. It is stable enough to reassure her the boat will recover from her mistakes, and won't muss her hairdo in the process.

If you are in the family way, with kids from 4-14 the 16-20 ft daysailor will prove large enough for evenings, weekends, and occasional week long cruises. As your kids become teenagers, such a boat can be their cruising boat, with evenings spent camped ashore on a beach or sand bar.

Boats of this size have a large following, and are readily sold when it is time to move on. They are cheap to own, since they can be stored at home on their trailer, under a cover.

INDY
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