Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 10 votes, 4.10 average. Display Modes
Old 07-03-2011, 05:31   #1246
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainAlf View Post
Like for you it's a surprise that brewing beer could be illegal, it was a surprise to me that I can buy a beer kit in a supermarket.

Cheers
For me the beer related surprise was in NZ. Drive through Off-Licences
__________________

__________________
David_Old_Jersey is offline  
Old 07-03-2011, 05:40   #1247
********* Emeritus
 
SaucySailoress's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,235
Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by dana-tenacity View Post
t I'm not as certain as I once was that they don't belong on my boat - hey how come I started writing in italics.
I think perhaps you may have hit the Ctrl key as well as the shift key when you typed "I"... but you'd figured that out by now, hadn't you!!!??
__________________

__________________

SaucySailoress is offline  
Old 07-03-2011, 09:33   #1248
cruiser

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelC View Post
Kenny Chaos. - I have built a number of boats, from 8' pram [Nutshell] to a 35 ft aluminum gaff schooner [with lots of help welding up this hull]. I have laid out a program for others several times. You start by building a pram, then a slightly larger skiff, then a V bottom overnighter, then [depending on how well the others turned out] you might even start your big one. Here is the interesting part. You will probably keep the pram for your dinghy. The skiff and the overnighter you can sell for your materials cost plus about 30%, realistically. BUT - you will save the time and money invested so far in the construction of your ultimate boat. Even thought you take a couple of years of free time to do this, you will save it in the long run. At this point, however, it would be faster, and cost about the same to buy one of the used ones discussed on this thread. For me, I can't get what I want on the used market. Never have seen anything close. And I am spoiled rotten. Especially the rotten part. So I build my own. My current boat will come in so cheap nobody on this site would believe it. That is almost completely due to the experience of building other boats. One more point: The successful home builders who build nice boats [probaby NOT yachts ...] love the building process. Love the process. I do.
If you look at my VERY ROUGH ESTIMATE for a boat 31 ft LOA, that's right, 31 FT LOA !! The material and welding are roughly $ 10,000. That is, for roughly 10 grand you have a bare hull and deck, a new hull and deck. Buying the aluminum new. If you buy blemished (water marked / scratched ) material you can do better.

Now, in no way do you have a boat that is ready for the water. There are still many things to put in which I tried to cover above. Glenn's website is constructive because he set himself a schedule and stuck to it, building a 45 ft LOA boat in 5 years. Yes, he completed it 10 years ago and is cruising the Caribbean!

For good ideas on how to fit out a bare hull and deck, get a copy of Ferenc Mate's From A Bare Hull... OR Larry Pardey's The Capable Cruiser...

Again, I must emphasize, building from scratch is only practical for those who have sufficient room at home to do the project, and who can schedule at least 30 hours/ week to work on it. Larry Pardey estimated 30 Ft LOA Taleisin took 4500 hours, 45 Ft Pegasus took 9000 hours. Finishing a 31 Ft LOA scratch built boat in two years means working on it 2000 hours/ year. When I did Pegasus, I worked on my consulting practice M-Th from 0530 - 2200, and on the boat all day Fri-Sun from 0600-2200. I did this for 4 1/2 years.

It is most important that you not build too large a boat. Most home building failures arise from just that mistake. Instead, stay with a boat reasonably sized, keep the boat simple, use the opportunity to redo the interior to gain livability and comfort. For ideas about this, look at my posts covering Lapwing. Look at the designer's original concept and at how I reorganized the space into something more practical for long term cruising. You can do the same.

Regarding welding up a boat. Don't use the boat to learn welding. Yes, get a good machine, like the Millermatic 250 with a spool gun, regulator and Argon. Then hire a semi-retired guy with excellent references, and let him do his stuff. I did this, and Pegasus has proven solid in every respect.

You will find the work goes three times as fast with one guy fitting and the other welding.

In summary....

There are three ways to get the boat you want for cruising on a micro budget, provided you stay in the 28-34 ft LOA size range.

A) buy a worn out boat for < $5k , strip it, and rebuild it.

B) buy a good old boat in reasonable condition for $ 15-25 K , correcting any defects found

C) Build a boat in GRP, Aluminum, Carvel planked, or Cold Moulded < 36 ft LOA. Of these you will find the following order encompasses overall rapidity of completion and economy: Aluminum, Carvel, Cold Moulded, GRP.

A very great advantage of building is your ability to throw money at the project as you earn it. Another advantage is your ability to lessen costs by building rather than buying the following:

Mast, boom, pulpits, stanchions, dorade boxes, hatches, tiller, rudder

You can reduce rigging costs by using bronze capels, and pouring your own terminals.

You can reduce ballast costs by scrounging lead wheel weights.

You reduce dinghy costs by building your own, making your own oars, mast, boom, dagger board, and rudder.

When done your kit doesn't have to look like junk, for example, your dink can look like this one.....

INDY
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	finishedChameleon.jpg
Views:	120
Size:	17.2 KB
ID:	24706  
__________________
goprisko is offline  
Old 07-03-2011, 09:41   #1249
cruiser

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
Kevin's Ruth Avery....

Several times, I have mentioned Kevin and his exploits with Ruth Avery.

To recap:

Kevin is a PhD physicist who got burned out in the securities business. He found a Southern Cross 31 hull and deck, which was never completed.

He completed the boat as a traditional gaff cutter.

Following completion he sailed around the world via Slocum's route in 2004-2006. Since then he has been wintering in the Caribbean and summering at Mt. Desert Is, in Maine. He goes north via Bermuda in April-May and returns south via Bermuda in Nov. He does this single handed.

Ruth Avery has no electrical system, no engine. Kevin cooks with LPG on a cooker, his navigation lamps are oil lamps, his cabin lamps are oil lamps. The long oar tucked in forward is used to scull Ruth Avery into and out of tight places when there is little or no wind. He hand pumps his water, he has no GPS, no watermaker, no pressure water, no outboard for his hard dink, no winches, no electronic autopilot, no chart plotter, no depth sounder(he has a hand lead), no refrigerator, no wind speed and direction instrument, (he has a pennant). and no anchor windlass.

What Kevin does have is 7 years of experience in all weathers on all oceans exploring hither and yon, in his own little ship AND he has been doing this on $6000 / yr!!

The photo is of his boat in Charlotte Amalie, St. Thomas US Virgin Islands. It was taken yesterday.

INDY
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	RuthAvery.jpg
Views:	153
Size:	174.0 KB
ID:	24707  
__________________
goprisko is offline  
Old 07-03-2011, 09:54   #1250
Registered User
 
Blue Crab's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hurricane Highway
Boat: Cal 29
Posts: 3,882
pirate Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
For me the beer related surprise was in NZ. Drive through Off-Licences
My beer-related surprises always come in the morning. As a micro-budget cruiser, I can't afford Charlie Sheen's babes.

This is really what's wrong with $500/mo cruising: zero bucks for entertainment as earlier posters noted. Why sail around the world or the Bahamas if you're not going to stop and fool around?
__________________
Blue Crab is offline  
Old 07-03-2011, 10:04   #1251
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,198
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgzzzz View Post
My beer-related surprises always come in the morning. As a micro-budget cruiser, I can't afford Charlie Sheen's babes.

This is really what's wrong with $500/mo cruising: zero bucks for entertainment as earlier posters noted. Why sail around the world or the Bahamas if you're not going to stop and fool around?

Its not the fooling around that costs... its the getting into buying rounds for newfound friends...
"Sorry guys... I'll get my own thanks.. I'm on a budget.."
Usually they understand... unless you start freeloading...
Also... if a lady thinks your horny but insists/hopes you pay for all drinks/food... shes lying...
Thats why I'm all for 'Free Love'.... I'm on a Budget
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline  
Old 07-03-2011, 10:17   #1252
Registered User
 
Blue Crab's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hurricane Highway
Boat: Cal 29
Posts: 3,882
pirate Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Hi Indy,

I'm guessing Kevin doesn't have a computer either so can you fill us in on his expenses? And particularly, if he isn't an unsociable hermit, I wonder how much he spends on fun? And what do physicists do for fun?

My other comment apropos of nothing, as usual, is I was glad to read that Kevin took the longer, harder way around the world, and not thru the canals. I'd never denigrate the achievement of the modern RTW'ers (how about the guy who's going to do it on 15k in 12 months and doesn't have a boat yet --that's a sailor!) but I grew up reading Slocum and Moitessier, etc who sailed Cape Horn. For me as a gunkholing cruiser, no armchairs or cigars thank you, that's sailing around the world.
__________________
Blue Crab is offline  
Old 07-03-2011, 10:19   #1253
Registered User

Join Date: May 2010
Location: St Pete FL
Boat: 1972 Contest 33
Posts: 783
Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgzzzz View Post
My beer-related surprises always come in the morning. As a micro-budget cruiser, I can't afford Charlie Sheen's babes.

This is really what's wrong with $500/mo cruising: zero bucks for entertainment as earlier posters noted. Why sail around the world or the Bahamas if you're not going to stop and fool around?

It depends on what you consider fooling around. If that's sitting at the dock or the local taverns drinking rum and cokes. Ya I can do that at the local bar here.

But

If you mean grabbing a back pack and hiking to the tallest peak on the island your seeing meeting and talking to the locals along the way or grabbing your air tanks filling them and diving that islands reef just to see what's down there as well as maybe getting dinner.
To me that's fooling around and I haven't spent a dollar on anything but the cruising visa yet.
__________________
Auto pilot is saying get up here and grab the tiller.
w1651 is offline  
Old 07-03-2011, 10:30   #1254
cruiser

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
Re: Lapwing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Johnson View Post
Indy,
I built three boats and got a substantial trade discount as well, as I was always a boatbuilder, either as vocation, or avocation. (These three projects were, a 23' cat, a 28' tri, and a 34' tri, and took me 21 years between them.) The first two boat projects were single handed, the last one was with my wife.

I don't know if this is useful or not, but...

I like your choice to build in aluminum. If I were to switch to monohulls, that would be my first choice. I would however use a stock design that was well proven, and with hundreds of copies out there, so you'ld know EXACTLY what you will end up with. Plans for a commonly available stock design are relatively cheap.

Also... unless you have a building crew, I think two years build time is unrealistic for one person. Also...The numbers that you have listed (cost), seem low by as much as 50%, on many large items, and there are literally thousands of cost that don't get added in, because they are so small that they don't seem worth adding up. They do add up, however! At least the above was true for me...

When people asked me how much time it took to build a boat, I'd say: "Until it's done"! When they'd ask how much it cost, I'd say: "All that you've got"!

You may be much better than me at pre-figuring the time and money, and I would never suggest that you can't do it, but I have been wrong by such a large margin on both counts, that I suggest to other boatbuilders, that they not set rigid goals, other than the above generalities, and just go work on it EVERY day, until it is done, or you need to stop until more money comes in.

Building a boat is like building 10 houses! I've done both, and along with my wife, and one part time worker, the house only took one year!

Best of luck with it, I admire your gumption. It is a special pursuit that transcends being "just a way to get a boat". It is what men do because they can't give birth!

Mark
Thank you Mark,

Now to your points......

a) I agree with you regarding using a stock design, it is most important to avoid those designs which are not meant for the material chosen, because this increases difficulty and costs, please note that I chose Lapwing from the board of Dick Zaal. Dick is a very experienced designer with a good following, and he is willing to work with anyone interested in a cruising version of Lapwing. However, Roberts Goodson and Dudley Dix, and Jay Benford, and Chesapeake Boatbuilding, and Tom Colvin all have suitable designs.

b) It is most important to stick to a boat < 36 ft LOA, and to keep the boat simple. Specifically, minimal electrical system, no engine, drop in fridge, solar panels, deep cycle batteries, no or very few winches, hank on sails, cutter or cat schooner rig, virtually no electronics, hand pumped water, LPG cooker, etc.

c) It is very important to control the degree of finish. an oiled interior looks just as nice as 10 coats of varnish, and takes a fraction of the time to execute. Bare aluminum from the waterline to the rail, requires no paint at all.. Larry Pardey took 3 years to complete Taleisin because he and Lin insisted on 6 coats of varnish on the interior of the ribs and planking, not to mention the cabinetry, when a like number of coats of Tung Oil would have sealed the Teak in a tenth of the time.

d) Two years building is practical for a boat ~ 30 ft LOA taken to a reasonable finish, and kept very simple, provided the builder organizes his time to be able to spend 2000 hours /yr on the project. This means 104 - 3 day weekends working from sunup to sun down. That's 312 days at 15 hours / day or 4780 hours.

e) You must set deadlines / goals and time frames for them. You do this to force the pace, and to keep from slacking in the middle, otherwise the project will be set aside for other things and before you know it, you've lost a year. Don't be like the guy I met 50 years ago in Hammond, IN. He was a norwegian. When he started his Colin Archer 30 ft LOA strip planked boat, he was single. He built the thing massively, installed a long stroke puka-puka engine with a massive flywheel. Had the whole project esconced in an old warehouse in the industrial district. About the time he was decking the thing, he met a lady, got married, had a family, and forgot about Norway. I dunno if the project was ever finished.

You must do these things when redoing a worn out boat as well... I've seen rebuilding projects for sale too. Those things can go longer than you realize, mostly, because you find problems you didn't anticipate. It is old story regarding the wannabe who bought an old wood boat to go cruising in style on a big boat, only to find rot in a critical spot just before leaving, to repair that and to find more rot in another critical spot just before leaving, and to find himself divorced shortly there after.

INDY
__________________
goprisko is offline  
Old 07-03-2011, 10:58   #1255
Registered User
 
Blue Crab's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hurricane Highway
Boat: Cal 29
Posts: 3,882
pirate Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by w1651 View Post
It depends on what you consider fooling around. If that's sitting at the dock or the local taverns drinking rum and cokes. Ya I can do that at the local bar here.

But

If you mean grabbing a back pack and hiking to the tallest peak on the island your seeing meeting and talking to the locals along the way or grabbing your air tanks filling them and diving that islands reef just to see what's down there as well as maybe getting dinner.
To me that's fooling around and I haven't spent a dollar on anything but the cruising visa yet.
I take your point. Fooling around is different strokes to be sure. I was making and failing at an attempt at humor. Or humour. I don't have the noted troubles as I'm better-looking than Charlie but at "my" dive shop here in Beaufort we charge $4 USD for air fills. Actually, the air is free but we do charge for cramming it into the tanks. Also, as I'm sure you know, the world is switching to Nitrox. (2) 80 cu ft Nitrox fills @ 3000psi = $24 USD. Speaking of, I owe, I owe ... it's off to work I go. I "free" dive for dinner.
__________________
Blue Crab is offline  
Old 07-03-2011, 14:47   #1256
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Probably in an anchorage or a boatyard..
Boat: Ebbtide 33' steel cutter
Posts: 3,537
Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
"Sorry guys... I'll get my own thanks.. I'm on a budget.."


Thats why I'm all for 'Free Love'.... I'm on a Budget
Boatman, ah this is hard, but, well you ain't on a budget. Are you. Your avatar is there for all to see. And it's obvious that you are a highly paid star of screen and stage......


__________________
conachair is offline  
Old 07-03-2011, 14:55   #1257
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,198
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by conachair View Post
Boatman, ah this is hard, but, well you ain't on a budget. Are you. Your avatar is there for all to see. And it's obvious that you are a highly paid star of screen and stage......


ROTFLMBO......
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline  
Old 07-03-2011, 15:28   #1258
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Lapwing

Quote:
Originally Posted by goprisko View Post
b) It is most important to stick to a boat < 36 ft LOA, and to keep the boat simple. Specifically, minimal electrical system, no engine, drop in fridge, solar panels, deep cycle batteries, no or very few winches, hank on sails, cutter or cat schooner rig, virtually no electronics, hand pumped water, LPG cooker, etc.
At the risk of quibbling not sure if simple is strictly true, I would have said straightforward - especially to maintain. Not sure what the problem is with winches (apart from initial cost) - but you usually get working ones for free, when you buy a boat ...........on the fridge thing, I can see the advantage of a drop in, but fridges are not rocket science - learning to build one means learning to fix one. A Fridge onboard may not be essential, but creates options and that always saves money over the longterm. The cheap answer may therefore be 2 fridges ...............but my main quibble is on the no engine. IMO it's a case of penny wise and pound foolish. Having no engine will knock the crap out of her resale (how many folks want a 30ft+ engineless yacht?? Indy and ???? ). and will severely restrict ability to come into shore (both docking and simply anchorages that may require an engine to exit. and may require an exit)........the less choice one has, the more expensive it becomes - and that includes places to visit, moor and dock.

Fair enough if no money for a brand new engine installation from the getgo - but design one in and keep the space available for when you stumble accross a deal - always someone "upgrading" and always someone who values items less than they are worth to you.

Quote:
c) It is very important to control the degree of finish. an oiled interior looks just as nice as 10 coats of varnish, and takes a fraction of the time to execute. Bare aluminum from the waterline to the rail, requires no paint at all.. Larry Pardey took 3 years to complete Taleisin because he and Lin insisted on 6 coats of varnish on the interior of the ribs and planking, not to mention the cabinetry, when a like number of coats of Tung Oil would have sealed the Teak in a tenth of the time.
What you want is the magic of paint

Quote:
d) Two years building is practical for a boat ~ 30 ft LOA taken to a reasonable finish, and kept very simple, provided the builder organizes his time to be able to spend 2000 hours /yr on the project. This means 104 - 3 day weekends working from sunup to sun down. That's 312 days at 15 hours / day or 4780 hours.
On the presumption that the other 4 days are spent making a living, then IMO anyone who tried that would be mentally ill. either before or afterwards. or both

Quote:
e) You must set deadlines / goals and time frames for them. You do this to force the pace, and to keep from slacking in the middle, otherwise the project will be set aside for other things and before you know it, you've lost a year. Don't be like the guy I met 50 years ago in Hammond, IN. He was a norwegian. When he started his Colin Archer 30 ft LOA strip planked boat, he was single. He built the thing massively, installed a long stroke puka-puka engine with a massive flywheel. Had the whole project esconced in an old warehouse in the industrial district. About the time he was decking the thing, he met a lady, got married, had a family, and forgot about Norway. I dunno if the project was ever finished.
We had a thread on goals recently From the sounds of it that guy got where he wanted to go. just turned out he didn't need a boat to get there. At the end of the day, they are only boats - a means of getting somewhere....whether that be a foreign port. or inside your head. or both.

Although I can see that on some things you clearly know a lot (even thoiugh the style of conveying not to my taste, still worth reading - on other things however it does simply appear that you are making sh#t up as you go along Your boat building "Plans" sound straight out of the book of CF Clueless newbie dreamers.........which clearly you are not. A puzzle that one . Either that or you should be getting the Nobel Prize for project management - when they finish building it

And I mean all that in a "CF Play Nice" kinda way

Quote:
You must do these things when redoing a worn out boat as well... I've seen rebuilding projects for sale too. Those things can go longer than you realize, mostly, because you find problems you didn't anticipate. It is old story regarding the wannabe who bought an old wood boat to go cruising in style on a big boat, only to find rot in a critical spot just before leaving, to repair that and to find more rot in another critical spot just before leaving, and to find himself divorced shortly there after.

INDY
LoL I grew up with me father working on wooden boats - got him through 1 divorce and was a major cause of the 2nd (and even 25 odd years later he still he can't see that )..........anyway, around 1992 he finally admitted that GRP probably wasn't a passing fad after all

Comparing apples to oranges.
__________________
David_Old_Jersey is offline  
Old 07-03-2011, 17:39   #1259
cruiser

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,167
Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

I don't have a beer budget. Haven't had a beer for a long time. It all tastes like skunk piss to me. I could cruise full time for the cost of some people's beer budget.
Entertainmemtn? Hiking , diving, fishing, hunting, etc ,etc, all sound like a lot more fun than becoming a typical alcoholic "whiteman in the tropics" stereotype, and far cheaper as well.
That stuff is very dangerous. Ive seen it screw up far too many lives to not be cautious.
There is no need to finish any boat completely, before getting some cruising enjoyment out of her, and moving aboard. The rest can be done later. Step one is getting off the treadmill, and thus cutting the huge cost of living on land. This leaves you far more time and money to embellish the boat as you cruise.
__________________
Brent Swain is offline  
Old 07-03-2011, 22:03   #1260
Registered User
 
Blue Crab's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hurricane Highway
Boat: Cal 29
Posts: 3,882
Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

I like Boatman's prarie dog avatar better than his last one which was an actual photo of Phil himself. That is why sailors drink.


Brent- No reader on CF would doubt you could live on someone's beer budget. Based on my reading over the last year or so, I doubt that anyone lives aboard more frugally than you.

I also, at this very moment, am stealing my signature line from Sir David_Old_Jersey
__________________

__________________
Blue Crab is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
cruising

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cruising on $500 / Month Springbok Dollars & Cents 337 10-11-2010 09:52



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:38.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.