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Old 25-02-2011, 16:34   #1096
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

The attitude of gratitude.
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Old 25-02-2011, 16:34   #1097
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

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Originally Posted by tgzzzz View Post
Hello,
My name is Tom.
I'm a micro budget cruiser.
I have been my whole life.
Friends thought I needed a 12-step program so here I am.
I started by building a sailing dink at 12.
All my friends were doing it.
Years went by as did many boats.
They were lost years of sailing, sun, and sex.
Some called me a "slacker".
My family gave up on me.
Disgusted ex wives left.
I quit for awhile, but those craven desires returned.
Last year I bought a small boat with a deisel engine for $650 on Ebay.
Heh heh heh.
Are your ex wives and family enjoying their lives as much as you? Don't you find it ironic, when those who are not, tell you that you are doing it all wrong?
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Old 25-02-2011, 16:39   #1098
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

Furlers can be cheap and simpler than a set of hanks with fewer moving parts . I built mine for around $80 worth of materials. I've used it for 26 years and several Pacific crosings with no problems.
Not having to go on the foredeck is a huge safety factor.
The wear and tear they save on sails can pay for them quickly.
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Old 25-02-2011, 17:15   #1099
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Re: Steel Hulls vs Aluminum

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Originally Posted by goprisko View Post
Brent is quoting an oft repeated myth regarding materials.

Steel construction is not practical in vessels of this size due to weight.

An aluminum hull 36 ft LOA requires 4800 lbs of aluminum costing $10000

Were this hull built of steel 9000 lbs of steel are required costing $9000

The steel hull must be sand blasted and epoxy coated both inside and outside.

The aluminum hull need only be sand blasted and coated below the waterline on the exterior for the antifouling paint. It is practice to paint the decks and houses.

The difference in paint and sandblasting alone more than makes up the difference.

Plus aluminum can be cut with carbide faced wood working tools nearly as fast as such tooling works hardwoods.

Steel requires plasma cutters, or oxy-acetylene torch to cut, with attendant distortion.

The aluminum hull can be fabricated at a lighter weight than any other method, including carbon fibre. This permits a lower CG with less ballast, as much as 2000 lbs less, at considerable savings, too.

Regardless, the hull is at most 20% of the finished boat, and more likely 10%.

Then there is the not very small matter of maintenance. For a cruiser's take on this read any of Hiscock's books regarding his cruises in Wanderer 4. Aluminum does not rust out from the inside, as does steel. Aluminum carries a very high resale value, while steel vies with wood and ferrocement in a resale value far below that of GRP boats.

Remember, I speak From experience. Pegasus was designed for steel construction. By 1986, when I was lofting the boat, I had costed out her hull built in both materials to the point of top coating. Aluminum was 1/3 cheaper. When the 87 recession kicked in, AL plate was available, watermarked, for $0.65 / lb. I have never regretted changing to aluminum.

INDY
Steel is very practical for boats this size, if you use more modern building methods, such as origami construction. The three dozen boats I've built all proved very practical.
When the cost of the steel for a 36 was around $6K a friend bought the aluminium for one . It cost $20 K just for the shell materials. Welding equipment for alloy is also far more expensive.
As I ordered the steel for my boat shotblasted and primed with a cold galvanizing primer, she was never sandblasted . That was 26 years ago, and the paint is as good as the day I put it on.
Aluminium in the tropics gets hot enough to burn your feet on, if you dont paint it. Burce Cope from Cope aluminium Yachts says the only reliable way to get paint to stick to aluminium is to sandblast it. Finding effective antifouling for aluminium, which wont eat it with electrolysis, is diffucult, and expensive.
Steel only rusts from the inside if you don't properly paint the inside properly ( Like Foulkes boats don't). Simple solution. Paint it. I've had no such problems.
Aluminium weld failure is very common, steel weld failure is rare. Hiscocks boat was a screwup, with every mistake known to steel boatbuilding. The decks were covered with wood , which is like putting wet blotting paper over it, a major corrosion problem guarantee.
I saw her on the grid in Auckland, with only two tiny zincs the size of half a tennis ball on the entire hull.
When the steel work is done, you have the lifelines, hatches, cleats mooring bits, chocks , tankage, engine mounts, winch bases, anchor winch, mast fully detailed , self steering , handrails, thru hulls, filler pipes,anchors , bilge pumps, etc etc, all stuff one has to go out and buy in a fibreglas boat, which makes the steelwork on a steel boat far more than the 10 to 20% a bare fibreglas hull represents.
It cost me 4K to launch my 31 and 6K by the time I got her sailing and liveable.
.
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Old 25-02-2011, 20:46   #1100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Are your ex wives and family enjoying their lives as much as you? Don't you find it ironic, when those who are not, tell you that you are doing it all wrong?
My bunch is doing pretty well but I take your point. It's the misery and company thing I guess. My 3 kids have me figured out. The Ex, not so much and I was living aboard when I met her. Caveat Emptor.
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Old 26-02-2011, 05:06   #1101
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

I've read on this thread, that nobody should post something about boats with more than 36f/10t, electric gadgets etc. etc.
Quite funny, since my budget for several years was pretty much exactly this amount (500$) and I was living on a 40f/12t boat with most of those unnecessary amenities that our stone age heroes like Annie Hill can do so well without.
Interestingly, I have met very little people who lived longer than 3 years on a boat with less than 30f - to be accurate 3 - doing long distance sailing in my 10 years permanent live aboard.
I don't carry expensive antiques like a sextant, I would never buy a parrafin stove (again - I've read all those books and left with a 31 footer with parrafin stove, no fridge, no pressure water etc.), I'm using electronic charts (did you know that worldwide charts fit on 2 blank cd's?), and my new backup GPS is an application for my Iphone for Euro 3.99.
No, for me a floating home which is capable of ocean crossings starts around 30f with a headroom of min 1.85m in the cabin.
Affordability? - Yes I've paid 43,000$ for Freedom Fargo in 2000, but her realistic market value is 65,000 Euro at the moment and she was much cheaper to maintain than my old 31 footer.
Successful sea gypsies have bigger boats.
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Old 26-02-2011, 05:56   #1102
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

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don't drink , don't smoke , rarly eat in a restaurant etc etc.
I only hauled out twice in the last 26 years.
Antifouling I can buy for $100 a gallon or less,
only bought it twice in 26 years.. .
OK, OK, some people can do it.

Certainly you have a record for not hauling out. It must be a wonder when you do get hauled... the BBC send a wild life doco crew to film the new reef.

If you are happy like that, and you activly cruise, then thats fine and good on you!

But you must realise its only for a very small select bunch that your style will be appropriate.

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Old 26-02-2011, 06:17   #1103
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

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I have a simple solution. I've never paid for storage , never bought a car, dont pay any insurance of any kind, take my own chances, haven't caught a plane in years, don't drink , don't smoke , rarly eat in a restaurant etc etc. My $92 a month pension covers my food budget, and more. I only hauled out twice in the last 26 years. Antifouling I can buy for $100 a gallon or less, far less sometimes, only bought it twice in 26 years..
Friends, crusiing on a similar budget, who get $380- a month pension, say they have never had so much money cominng in, far more than they need.
What you list are luxuries, not necessities.
How much does cruising cost? As much as you have. What you have comming in, you will find a way to spend, and justify it as the minimum you can get by on. . Any less, and you will adjust your lifestyle to that level.

I don't believe any question on the cost of cruising can be fully answered, without a discussion on how to go about it. This is not thread drift , just a more complete answer to the questioin .
You say you have hauled two times in 26 years? But have you ever left her on her side on a beach somewhere and scraped her?
I was thinking I could do that. Just go to the beach until the keel starts to hit bottom. When the tide goes out scrape one side, the next day do the other. You could even paint and antifoul the hull this way.
And there have been some pretty amazing gadgets developed to hold your boat upright if you wanted to do it that way.
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Old 26-02-2011, 06:38   #1104
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

CaptainALF, I don't think anybody is saying you can't post if you have a certain size boat. Obviously it's being done on all size boats, with all sorts of initial purchase prices. And I think we've proven there is no right or wrong way to do it...The whole point of this thread (that I can see) is for people like yourself to come out of the woodwork and talk about HOW you are able to live on such a small amount of money, particularly since you're on a larger boat.

The point I made earlier about starting with a small or project boat, was only to say it CAN be done that way (in opposition to the figures of building a new boat). Not that has to be done that way... I do believe there are many full time liveaboard, world cruising sailors out there on under 30' boats. I've been reading about them for years, attempting to figure out how they're making it work...but they are not usually the ones with blogs and satphone linked twitter accounts

There's no doubt anybody can spend as much as they want on their boat. But for those that are financially challanged BEFORE they buy a boat, they need to know there are ways to circumvent the issues. Particularly since there is no relevant discussion on these matters (until now?). It's extremely difficult to go on the internet and read websites like this one and try to glean information, or even positive encouragement, about serious budget cruising. Everybody wants to either say it should only be done their way, or it can't be done at all... Can we just talk about how we are doing it and leave the decisions to the people making them?
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Old 26-02-2011, 07:00   #1105
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

Careening, putting the boat someplace where the tide exceeds the draft of the boat, can work and is quite often in places like Vancouver, B.C. and other northern latitude boating areas. They even have special "careening" areas along seawalls which have sunken logs set into the sea bottom next to the seawall. And also extra cleats and devices to keep your boat upright as the tide goes out. Of course, you have only on average a few hours to do your work before the tide rises again.
- - But in low latitude areas tides can be way too small for careening. Tides of about 1 foot (30cm) plus or minus some really do not afford much opportunity to take advantage of careening.
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Old 26-02-2011, 07:05   #1106
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

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Careening, putting the boat someplace where the tide exceeds the draft of the boat, can work and is quite often in places like Vancouver, B.C. and other northern latitude boating areas. They even have special "careening" areas along seawalls which have sunken logs set into the sea bottom next to the seawall. And also extra cleats and devices to keep your boat upright as the tide goes out. Of course, you have only on average a few hours to do your work before the tide rises again.
- - But in low latitude areas tides can be way too small for careening. Tides of about 1 foot (30cm) plus or minus some really do not afford much opportunity to take advantage of careening.
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Old 26-02-2011, 07:20   #1107
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

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I only hauled out twice in the last 26 years. Antifouling I can buy for $100 a gallon or less, far less sometimes, only bought it twice in 26 years..
.
This needs some elaboration. Were you scraping regularly and frequently, or just letting it grow to the seabed?
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Old 26-02-2011, 07:25   #1108
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

Absolutely work for work/local boats. Rolling them over on top of a floating platform is one solution. But it might play havoc with the FRG hull of a typical cruiser what with nails and other objects digging/gouging into the side walls of the boat. Maybe laying some rather thick carpet or other protector on the floating platform first could prevent the damage. Then, of course, is all the stuff inside the boat that will be dislodged when the boat goes over on its sides.
- - But creativity is the hallmark of the "minimalist budget" cruiser. Where there is a will, there is usually a way to do it.
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Old 26-02-2011, 08:22   #1109
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

I figure that if you are the kind of person who would build a welder so that you could build yourself a steel boat. You could build a simple brush or even a hookah dive unit for cleaning the boat's bottom.

The hookah unit could also be a good source of extra income while cruising.

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Old 26-02-2011, 11:49   #1110
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If you cruise on a micro budget, a weekly wipedown is no hardship in warm climes. I'm in the water all the time anyway; it takes 10-15 min on a small boat. The biggest key is to invest in a real boarding ladder. Those plastic contraptions have no place on a cruising boat. You won't get off if it's hard to get back on. I dive on my anchor(s), every time, and often pick up dinner as a bonus. You've seen my boat: it's the one anchored way the hell away from the social raft-up. This is why the budget cruiser sports a real rowing dinghy as well.
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