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Old 24-02-2011, 07:43   #1081
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

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Originally Posted by MichaelC View Post
You can find an almost seaworthy 34 foot boat for under ten thousand. [I found four]. but then you will need an additional 10 thousand for getting it seaworthy. On the other hand, IF YOU HAVE THE TIME AND THE SKILLS, you can build a 34' sailboat [no engine] for under ten thousand. The 40k figure is way too high. You can live on 350 to 500 per month for one person pretty easily afloat, and probably do it for two as well. You will not have ANY of the luxuries you, as effete americans, expect as standard life style. Result: most of you will 'require' a thousand or more in living expenses and 100 thousand in boat costs. It is, in fact, your choice. Live with it.
I reworked the numbers for a 31ft LOA cutter, 26ft LWL, 5 ft draft.
2700 # of aluminum go into the hull and deck, 3400 # of material should be ordered to allow for waste. Given the use of aluminum, all waste can be resold at a high price. This boat will require 4000# of ballast, carry 100 gal of diesel and 200 gal of water.

Jay Benford's dory designs are amenable to aluminum/ ply construction and have been home built on budgets.

Reducing the cost of a boat to the figure quoted above, requires an adept scrounger, we have gone over the numbers on several occasions and priced the equipment more than once. We came out with $15k for new equipment. It is possible to greatly reduce the equipment expense by purchasing a worn out boat of similar size to that under construction, and cannibalizing that boat for parts for the new one.

For example, given a contest 33 can be had from a charity for $2500, that boat comes equipped with a mast, boom, sails, engine, winches, head, and other items salvagable and refurbishable at a fraction of the cost of new.

I welcome these novel ideas.

INDY
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Old 24-02-2011, 07:49   #1082
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Re: Answer the question

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Originally Posted by Springbok View Post
The question is whether one can cruise today on $500/mnth? This is as stated for expenses ie food,fuel, customs etc.
If this was an English Exam question, that is what you would discuss in your answer. The boat, its equipment,what to have and not to have etc are not in the question and your examiner would put a line through all that stuff as irrelevant ie off the question. 95% of this thread is not answering the original question.
Start another thread re the project boat. The boat does not have to be that Spartan and can have some luxuries. We did it 1995-2002 and our 33ft boat was well kitted-out and had an engine.On a $500/mnth budget.
Clyde
We cannot return to 16 years ago pricewise. Oil is now > $100/bbl. Diesel $4 / gallon, antifouling $250 /gal. To cruise on $500/ month now requires simplification.

Nostalgia for the old days, will not carry the next generation forward.

We must encourage CallMeCrazy and the others to innovate.

INDY
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Old 24-02-2011, 07:51   #1083
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pirate Re: Repetative thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Springbok View Post
This is just a repetatve thread now. There are those who think they can survive on $500/mnth and those who say its too low. Increase charges re customs, cruising permits etc adds to the problem.
A new thread re the project boat has been opened so there is no need to go that route again or repeat lists of equipment needed etc.That has been dealt with 5 times round.
The original question was surviving whilst cruising on $500/mnth and this depends on the cruiser and the mentioned rising fees.
Enjoy the project boat thread BUT stay on the subject. It could help many re kitting out a cheaper boat or one bought in the $20-25000 range.
Clyde
Excuse me for butting in here folks... but I also think that there's a bit of confusion and conflict here for what constitutes 'Cruising'....
Many are posting prices etc from various parts of the world on increase's in fee's/visa's/quarantine etc... while these are great for 'Voyagers' on circumnavigations its not applicable to the bulk of 'Cruisers' who tend to stay in 'Home Waters'...
Maybe there should be a seperate Thread for 'Voyagers' and one for 'Cruisers'..
For example, here in Europe we can visit 20 different countries with no entry fees etc... so its just down to cost of living, maintainance and where the anchorages are... same goes for the bulk of the US coast... many never leave it..
Whaddya Think....
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Old 24-02-2011, 08:04   #1084
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Re: Repetative thread

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Excuse me for butting in here folks... but I also think that there's a bit of confusion and conflict here for what constitutes 'Cruising'....
Many are posting prices etc from various parts of the world on increase's in fee's/visa's/quarantine etc... while these are great for 'Voyagers' on circumnavigations its not applicable to the bulk of 'Cruisers' who tend to stay in 'Home Waters'...
Maybe there should be a seperate Thread for 'Voyagers' and one for 'Cruisers'..
For example, here in Europe we can visit 20 different countries with no entry fees etc... so its just down to cost of living, maintainance and where the anchorages are... same goes for the bulk of the US coast... many never leave it..
Whaddya Think....
I think that your input has always been refreshing and to the point.

There are indeed quite large cruising areas one can explore for little more than the cost of provisions and maintenance.

To those you mention, we can add the Canadian Maritimes, BC, Alaska Panhandle, French Polynesia, Solomons, New Guinea, Phillippines, Malaysia, Chagos, India, RSA, Namibia, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Peru, Ecuador, Panama, Colombia, Nicaragua, Jamaca, Honduras.

However, it is prudent to be aware of those that are expensive. As we said early on, one must BUDGET, this means budgeting your time between expensive places and cheap ones. This level of management is part and parcel of micro-budget cruising.

What is happening now is carrying this topic to a new level. CallMeCrazy and others are now applying the principles expounded here and reporting their results.

I applaud their willingness to share..;.

[One particular member] has always hated this thread and tried his level best to side track it. He is a canard, a person who claims to have cruised and who failed early on to prove he has been anywhere. He has been shown to not know the basics regarding elementary aspects of the voyages he claims to have completed. Don't let him destroy your interest in this tread and in learning from it.

INDY
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Old 24-02-2011, 08:06   #1085
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pirate Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

Hello,
My name is Tom.
I'm a micro budget cruiser.
I have been my whole life.
Friends thought I needed a 12-step program so here I am.
I started by building a sailing dink at 12.
All my friends were doing it.
Years went by as did many boats.
They were lost years of sailing, sun, and sex.
Some called me a "slacker".
My family gave up on me.
Disgusted ex wives left.
I quit for awhile, but those craven desires returned.
Last year I bought a small boat with a deisel engine for $650 on Ebay.
Heh heh heh.
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Old 24-02-2011, 08:12   #1086
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pirate Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgzzzz View Post
Hello,
My name is Tom.
I'm a micro budget cruiser.
I have been my whole life.
Friends thought I needed a 12-step program so here I am.
I started by building a sailing dink at 12.
All my friends were doing it.
Years went by as did many boats.
They were lost years of sailing, sun, and sex.
Some called me a "slacker".
My family gave up on me.
Disgusted ex wives left.
I quit for awhile, but those craven desires returned.
Last year I bought a small boat with a deisel engine for $650 on Ebay.
Heh heh heh.
MY HERO.......
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Old 24-02-2011, 08:12   #1087
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

We live as inexpensively as any over 50 cruisers I know of, and if one counts their TOTAL expenses... like, not owning a house any more, but paying for a storage building, as well as paying taxes on a car left behind. And forgoing ALL forms of insurance. (inc. health, boat, car, etc.) And figure in paying NO income taxes, because we had NO income, but were living off of savings instead.

From that premise we figure in the average over many years of cruising, by adding ALL boat maintenance and upgrades, as well as food & normal cruising expenses, paying out of pocket for Dr visits, or plane flights, etc... I mean, don't watch your expenses, as much as your bank account go down when you have NO income. This way we know to the penny EXACTLY what our "habit" is costing. The best we could average over many years, was more like $1,000 per month. To do this we missed out on many inland trips in the wonderful countries we visited. If we hadn't been on such a tight budget, we could have had a lot more fun.

It was only "running out of money", that ended our last big cruise, and prompted us to sail from Trinidad to the Beaufort NC inlet, in 12 sea days, (during Hurricane season!)

When I was younger, I had a smaller 28' boat, less stuff, and was tough as nails. THEN I could live on much less. You don't need a ton of money, but you do need some... The smaller the boat, the less your expenses, EXPONENTIALLY!

Mark
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Old 24-02-2011, 12:43   #1088
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

Quote:
Originally Posted by goprisko View Post
A Recap...........

We are looking for contributions from those with experience cruising on trailer sailors, and boats of this size, geared toward sharing their experiences, especially what works and what doesn't.

What this thread is not:
a) discussions of philosophy have no place here, this is a place for practicalities
b) discussions concerning larger boats than 36 ft LOA / 10 tons
c) discussions regarding engines larger than 25 hp
d) discussions regarding roller furling, reefing
e) discussions regarding electronic gadgets

There are many threads to be found in this forum, and most certainly, several exist that are geared to the person desiring information or networking on these topics. I hope you avail yourself of them.

Fair Winds,

INDY
Hmmm Indy - Do we have to be a little careful not to escape this tedious world of rules and regulations and... create a world full of rules and regulations?

Do I need to start a seperate thread then for anybody who likes this one but may have a boat larger than 36ft/10 tons? I would hazard a bet that my 54 footer is run on much less money than most boats half it's size, rarely has use of an engine (we sailed into a marina in La Paz 4 days ago with a couple of tenders to assist) and I would still agree $500 per month is more than acheivable as a starting point. It is all a question of what you feel you need, but that has already been discussed. I also have roller furling, but it is easily obtainable now and should not exclude somebody from this thread surely?

As for the role call I am not sure if Annie Hill and the like would pigeon hole themselves too strongly. Check out James Wharram for another great pholosophy of budget sailing. His boat is around 65 feet... although I know he runs a business etc.

Love this thread though and will totally respect your wishes if it is not for I.

Good winds to all (and look me up if you are in La Paz int eh next 6 weeks or so).

James

James
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Old 24-02-2011, 13:47   #1089
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

I'm out.
I'm spending too much on the buying of the boat.
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Old 24-02-2011, 14:34   #1090
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

I been thinking........if we are not talking furlers,then we are talking hank on sails?These are a dying breed.The majority of used sails available would have luff ropes to fit foils.How can they be cheaply converted to hank on?Just about anyone can learn to instal grommets.But what price are sail hanks today?I have been wondering about soft hanks/shackles.Made from Dyneema type rope.Looks like a sailor could learn to make his own.But do they work?Are they practical?Does anyone have any experience?

I remember working with bronze hanks.There was a limited number of times you could remove/instal them before the tang broke off.
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Old 24-02-2011, 15:18   #1091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgzzzz
Hello,
My name is Tom.
I'm a micro budget cruiser.
I have been my whole life.
Friends thought I needed a 12-step program so here I am.
I started by building a sailing dink at 12.
All my friends were doing it.
Years went by as did many boats.
They were lost years of sailing, sun, and sex.
Some called me a "slacker".
My family gave up on me.
Disgusted ex wives left.
I quit for awhile, but those craven desires returned.
Last year I bought a small boat with a deisel engine for $650 on Ebay.
Heh heh heh.
This is the most depressing and inspiring post I have read in a long time.
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Old 24-02-2011, 15:38   #1092
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pirate Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

Quote:
Originally Posted by nonam View Post
I been thinking........if we are not talking furlers,then we are talking hank on sails?These are a dying breed.The majority of used sails available would have luff ropes to fit foils.How can they be cheaply converted to hank on?Just about anyone can learn to instal grommets.But what price are sail hanks today?I have been wondering about soft hanks/shackles.Made from Dyneema type rope.Looks like a sailor could learn to make his own.But do they work?Are they practical?Does anyone have any experience?

I remember working with bronze hanks.There was a limited number of times you could remove/instal them before the tang broke off.
One used to get sew on hanks once upon an age...
and lets be honest...
Small boat roller gears cheap enough if you shop around... and used hank ons work just fine with slides sewn on instead... gets me where I want to go just fine... blather on about perfect foils all you want...
5 - 10 deg further off the winds no big deal to me...
the budgets something else...
not having the perfect foil wont stop me sailing...
not having a tight budget might...
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Old 24-02-2011, 15:41   #1093
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

Hanks

Been around the planet with them, think I replaced two over that time.
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Old 24-02-2011, 15:49   #1094
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

Quote:
Originally Posted by nonam View Post
I been thinking........if we are not talking furlers,then we are talking hank on sails?These are a dying breed.The majority of used sails available would have luff ropes to fit foils.How can they be cheaply converted to hank on?Just about anyone can learn to instal grommets.But what price are sail hanks today?I have been wondering about soft hanks/shackles.Made from Dyneema type rope.Looks like a sailor could learn to make his own.But do they work?Are they practical?Does anyone have any experience?

I remember working with bronze hanks.There was a limited number of times you could remove/instal them before the tang broke off.
Hank sails work fine. I have no idea where the idea came up that only roller furlers work. I have a roller furler on my yankee and hanks (and a boom) on my staysail and the yankee will be going back to hanks.

You have much more headsail flexibility and options with hanks. Big drifters, working jibs, storm jibs all can be readied and hoisted quickly. Folks with furlers have basically little to know light air options because the working jib is far too heavy and only an asym will fit over it, which doesn't work for most points of sail. So then you use the engine more, and people then claim that you need to use the engine when you don't have "enough" wind.

You will not make hull speed to your destination and (gasp!) might even have to bob in the water for a bit waiting for the diurnal winds to kick up in the morning to blow you to port.

Someone above said that had they spent more money that they'd have had more fun. That's reasonable to a point and completely lifestyle dependent. For most folks the more you spend = the less time you have to adventure around so you can either spend $2k/month for a year or $1k/month for two years.

It's all individual decisions, like the hanks/rollers deal. You trade one problem for another.
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Old 25-02-2011, 16:28   #1095
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

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Originally Posted by Mark Johnson View Post
We live as inexpensively as any over 50 cruisers I know of, and if one counts their TOTAL expenses... like, not owning a house any more, but paying for a storage building, as well as paying taxes on a car left behind. And forgoing ALL forms of insurance. (inc. health, boat, car, etc.) And figure in paying NO income taxes, because we had NO income, but were living off of savings instead.

From that premise we figure in the average over many years of cruising, by adding ALL boat maintenance and upgrades, as well as food & normal cruising expenses, paying out of pocket for Dr visits, or plane flights, etc... I mean, don't watch your expenses, as much as your bank account go down when you have NO income. This way we know to the penny EXACTLY what our "habit" is costing. The best we could average over many years, was more like $1,000 per month. To do this we missed out on many inland trips in the wonderful countries we visited. If we hadn't been on such a tight budget, we could have had a lot more fun.

It was only "running out of money", that ended our last big cruise, and prompted us to sail from Trinidad to the Beaufort NC inlet, in 12 sea days, (during Hurricane season!)

When I was younger, I had a smaller 28' boat, less stuff, and was tough as nails. THEN I could live on much less. You don't need a ton of money, but you do need some... The smaller the boat, the less your expenses, EXPONENTIALLY!

Mark
I have a simple solution. I've never paid for storage , never bought a car, dont pay any insurance of any kind, take my own chances, haven't caught a plane in years, don't drink , don't smoke , rarly eat in a restaurant etc etc. My $92 a month pension covers my food budget, and more. I only hauled out twice in the last 26 years. Antifouling I can buy for $100 a gallon or less, far less sometimes, only bought it twice in 26 years..
Friends, crusiing on a similar budget, who get $380- a month pension, say they have never had so much money cominng in, far more than they need.
What you list are luxuries, not necessities.
How much does cruising cost? As much as you have. What you have comming in, you will find a way to spend, and justify it as the minimum you can get by on. . Any less, and you will adjust your lifestyle to that level.

I don't believe any question on the cost of cruising can be fully answered, without a discussion on how to go about it. This is not thread drift , just a more complete answer to the questioin .
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