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Old 22-02-2011, 03:42   #1051
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

Quote:
Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
I can't give final numbers because I'm in the beginning stages myself. But I'll start it off... I paid $4000 for my boat. Its sound, well designed, solid decks, hull, rudder, keel. The rigging will need to be updated before I do any serious sailing since its at least 15 years old (no telling its actual age), but it appears ok at this point. It has 3 good hank on jibs, a barely used roller furling genny (old shaefer that just hoists up the hallyard that shaefer didn't even advise upgrading because they were built extemely well back then) and two main sails in good condition....

So what do I need besides rigging?

Ground tackle: working on that first thing... The boat came with a decent danforth, I'll add another danforth for bahamian mooring and I've just purchased a delta anchor (for under $100) as my primary anchor. I still need rope, chain, and a bow roller...

I still need a dinghy...

What else is there????

I'll need to do some minor electrical upgrades. I can get two Deka group 31's from the local autoparts store for $80's each, and a group 24 (for starting batt) for under $50.. I'd like to get an Echo Charge, but I can get away with old fashion diodes if need be...I already have all the LED lighting I need in the form of flashlights and stickup lights. I'd like to get an LED anchor light. I've already upgraded the running lights to LED (all purchased for directly from hong kong over ebay, same sht you get at west marine...)
I've found the Solar Panels I want, their $150 (or less) each, 2x 50W panels I'll mount on the stern pulpit with a $60 mounting kit...

Navigation....I got a handheld gps at a thrift store about 2 years ago for $8. I paid $200 for a netbook that was already upgraded to 2gb ram and 64gb SSD. I have charts of the entire world (don't ask). I also have my regular laptop that is also low power consuming and adequate for video production and anything else I do... I also have an iphone that I paid $100 for last year with navigation software and charts of the US...that will work for now, but I'll be adding a handheld mapping gps in the future. I just bought my first cruising guide of the Chesapeake for $6.99 on ebay... I do intend to buy paper charts as I see fit...

I intend to save up for a Mr. Vee (SS) windvane ($1500) and I have a raymarine autopilot that doesn't work, but I believe I can send it in and they will refurbish it for a few hundred bucks, we'll see...

I'm sure I'll come up with 100's of more things to buy in the next few months, but I'm also sure I'll keep finding the best deals possible and I can't possibly go over my budget because I live on a cash only basis (I actually use a bank, but you know what I mean...)
It's a slow process, but the difference is instead of saving up for 5-10 years, I'll be spending next winter in the Bahamas, and the year after that in the Caribbean, and the year after that I'll be on the west coast, then Hawaii, and so on...

I don't have all the answers, but I know the path I'm currently on is working and I believe it will continue to work. It's not easy and it's not for everyone but such is the life of a $500 a month cruiser.
Get a bruce anchor for the bahamas and grind the side flukes to a chisel point, forget the delta, they don't hold very well, except in muddy bottoms.

You are devoting too much attention to computers and computerized navigation. In my experience this stuff doesn't last. You need to get a magnetic compass, mount it so you can see it from the cockpit, swing it, and make a deviation table for it.

Regarding windvane, look for a Ratcliffe pendulum fin, they are very good, and Gerard made them of stock sections, with delrin bearings, which you can replace, making the unit good as new. We are talking hundreds of dollars at most here.

Down load your paper charts from the NOAA website, and have them printed locally, ditto for pilots.

Get the Plavidis guides for the Bahamas, the explorer charts too.

Make friends at Bacon. Do a poke test on all your sails. forget the roller furling, you need a high clewed yankee, several staysails, a main with reefs.

Don't forget to install a pawl for the chain.

Your LED anchor light is at home depot, in the lamp section, it's sold as a garden walk light. Is complete even to the batteries, costs about $30.

INDY
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Old 22-02-2011, 04:32   #1052
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

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Originally Posted by goprisko View Post
I disagree, this is the place to discuss refurbishing his Contest 33. As he goes through this boat and brings it up to standard, we can all share in the experience and learn from it. It will prove invaluable for those still dreaming.

So, please share with us the choices you make, as you make them.
I agree, I said that a bit prematurely. This is indeed a good place to post the numbers of your projects and discuss money saving tips.
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Old 22-02-2011, 04:35   #1053
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Pearson Vanguards

Most Vanguards are listed at about $16,500 or so....


This page is a listing of boats for sale by owner. Some as low as $6000

BOATS FOR SALE

Vanguards are excellent boats.

INDY
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Old 22-02-2011, 04:36   #1054
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

Quote:
Originally Posted by goprisko View Post
Get a bruce anchor for the bahamas and grind the side flukes to a chisel point, forget the delta, they don't hold very well, except in muddy bottoms.

You are devoting too much attention to computers and computerized navigation. In my experience this stuff doesn't last. You need to get a magnetic compass, mount it so you can see it from the cockpit, swing it, and make a deviation table for it.

Regarding windvane, look for a Ratcliffe pendulum fin, they are very good, and Gerard made them of stock sections, with delrin bearings, which you can replace, making the unit good as new. We are talking hundreds of dollars at most here.

Down load your paper charts from the NOAA website, and have them printed locally, ditto for pilots.

Get the Plavidis guides for the Bahamas, the explorer charts too.

Make friends at Bacon. Do a poke test on all your sails. forget the roller furling, you need a high clewed yankee, several staysails, a main with reefs.

Don't forget to install a pawl for the chain.

Your LED anchor light is at home depot, in the lamp section, it's sold as a garden walk light. Is complete even to the batteries, costs about $30.

INDY
I have the computers mostly because I'm a geek, not because I think i need them My only argument is that I can go ahead and use what I have instead of buying another gps or a chartplotter. I do already have binacle mounted compass as well as very nice puck style hand bearing compass that I bought about 2 years ago for $40. (I've been buying boat stuff for a boat I didn't own yet as far back as 3 years)
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Old 22-02-2011, 04:55   #1055
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Re: Pearson Vanguards

Quote:
Originally Posted by goprisko View Post
Most Vanguards are listed at about $16,500 or so....


This page is a listing of boats for sale by owner. Some as low as $6000

BOATS FOR SALE

Vanguards are excellent boats.

INDY
In my boat search I found 2 Vanguards that were high on my list. I was also considering a few Tritons. I decided on the Tartan 30 because of price and condition. It was on my short list based on its proven capabilities. One has cirumnavigated in recent years, and in the pages of 30 years worth of Tartan owner association News Letters and guides, There are several accounts of Bermuda and Atlantic passages, as well as extended caribbean cruising. There is also a fellow currently planning on sailing from the great lakes to California and then doing the SHTP in his T30.. its a good ol' boat

I think the 4 most common "bluewater" cruisers on the East coast of the US, all that can be had for under $10k are the Triton, the Vanguard, the Alberg 30, and the Albin Vega. The Alberg and the Vega are usually priced above $10k but deals can be had (note: the Tartan 30 is also generally priced above $10k but you see what I paid).

Solid decks were a major concern of mine. I only found one Triton with solid decks, I almost bought it if it wasn't for it's location, the asking price was $5k. It happened to be the cheapest Triton on the market and yet it was in better condition than ones asking $15k good deals are out there...

My other major concern were good sails. I didn't want to have to buy used sails just to get going... Good sails, solid deck, good boat, good condition, and miracle pricing are the keys.

The motor was a concern of mine, but only to the point that it had to be currently running so I could move the boat to where I wanted it. On a boat under 30 foot, you can always slap an outboard on the transom if your have to. Also when going under 30 (I say 30 foot generically) you can keep your anchors under 35lbs and therefore handle them without a windlass and without breaking your back.
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Old 22-02-2011, 05:17   #1056
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Outfitting Costs

I'd like to remind everyone that on pp 28-36 I examined this issue and
showed costs for refurbishing a SC 31 for cruising.

Those came to ~ $16,000 for everything.

As I mentioned then, a boat in good condition represents great value.

It is far cheaper to buy a boat refurbished recently than to do it yourself, except that if you do it yourself, you know the job was done right.

Given you keep the boat simple, there is no reason to budget six figure sums for the refit provided the boat is 28-32 ft LOA, and is kept simple.

INDY
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Old 22-02-2011, 07:05   #1057
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

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I think this brings up a good point. $2800 is about right for a micro-budget cruiser IMHO. Me and many other striving micro-budget cruisers, simply don't have $40k to buy or to put into a boat. It would take years of saving to come up with money like that. The whole point of cruising on a $500 a month is because that is all we have to spend in the first place. For me, I had to save up, buy a boat, and now outfit, with the same budgetary constraints I have to go cruising with afterwards.

I'm wondering if we can bring this discussion back down to the level of "so you have no money but you want to go cruising". instead of "how to live on $500 a month after you've spent $80k getting ready".
No offence to you INDY, I really appreciate the info you've been giving and I think your experience speaks volumes. But I feel just as constrained by your proposals as I would about buying a 50 foot catamaran. It's simply out of my reach. Even the $30k (low end) SC31 from your previous example is just going a bit too for a serious micro budget cruiser.

I say this not only from my own perspective, but from what i've seen/read/heard from other people out there doing it. It seems the average $500 a month cruisers are living on very small boats (less than 30') that they bought and outfitted on the exact same budget they are currently cruising with, which is to say, pennies...
That would make a good thread
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Old 22-02-2011, 07:06   #1058
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

Quote:
Thanks for posting that.
I've been struggling to follow a lot of the logic on here for exactly that reason. I want to go cheap but go safe. If safe means don't go 'til you've spent a few hundred K it all becomes a fruitless challenge.
Well Said.

There seems to be talk about where to get a good ol Boat to start with. I would suggest do what I have done. Look to your local charities. They have boats donated to them all the time and need to get them off their books this time of year.
Other then that do your home work and do diligence. No one here new about Contest sail boats. But with some time and computer savy I found that they are a really well built boat and have a great reputation. All in Europe and not so much here. My title says it is a 1962 but everything I have found says no. It was not built until the early 70's but to fix that typo isn't worth having to go through hoops or the work.

I am not about cheap but Frugal. I expect to have to pay 5 to 10,000 to get this boat to cruise ready. Everything I have found on the internet said it has a solid fiberglass deck. No Balsa core or plywood core. So rebeding shouldn't be a problem.
Electronics go against the nature of a frugally maintained boat. Think about it, Electronic and salt water. Just a sextant and tables for me with paper charts.
Windvane for taking naps and cooking along the way.
Solar panels and maybe a wind generator made from a car altenater to help out. They are one wire then it's all about wind speed and dryness.
No Fridge, or Stove as these are not needed and they are old on this boat. I'll get a barbecue grill on the rail instead. I'll have food that is grab and eat on rainy days.
The cooler is small and I wonder what you could really put in there. I looked at a truckers supply website and a 12v cooler can cool as low as 40 degrees with minimum draw and less then 200 USD.
New lights inside and replace bulbs with LED's.(Bought at home Depot)
A spool of 1x19 304 stainless and lots of stalocks and the replacement cones for them.
Replace all Halyards, Topping lift, and sheets with more below for spares.
I have to rebuild the toilet and add a tank, valve and hoses.(just to keep the Coast Guard happy)
Scrape, repair, and paint the entire outside of the boat. this is the most time consuming and monetary concern I have.

I already have a main sail, spinaker, two jibs that came with the boat. No roller furling but do you really need it? Put the jib on the stay and run it up I say.
A kit to repair sails. Most forget this piece of equipment.
A propane system that runs from the stern to the stove.(needs new tanks)
5/16 stainless rigging all appearing to be in great shape.
Stainless steel tiller
VHF radio but want a SSB if I can find one at a reasonable cost.

I have made a video but need to download it so you will soon see the boat and how messy it real was. I will keep you updated but I think the previous poster was right and I should start a thread about the boat.

Fair Winds
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Old 22-02-2011, 09:51   #1059
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Micro-Budget Cruising

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That would make a good thread

It has been quite a challenge these past months, but I believe that finally we are getting on track.

I am very happy to see posts from those who are following the advice given on pp 28-36, negotiating firmly for a suitable boat and outfitting same in a seamanlike manner.

Of course, we want to continue to receive posts from those who completed this effort and are now cruising.

INDY
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Old 22-02-2011, 13:13   #1060
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

You want numbers
Looking over receipts and adding up my proposed upgrades (all the things I mentioned earlier, rigging, batteries, windvane, dinghy, anchors etc...) I'm currently looking at about $13,300 total cost for the finished product. That includes $1000 for a the haul-out/launch and winter storage I paid right after the purchase. That also includes 1 year of liability insurance, sea-tow, and a few extra things I forgot to mention, like an epirb. (I'll probably drop the insurance once I break away from marina dependancies and I want sea-tow just for the first year because I'm still a noob...) As well as another $1000 for "miscellaneous" (like my hand bearing compass, ssb reciever, spare parts, blocks, shackles, etc.. all that adds up quick).

I suspect I'll even spend a bit more than that, so say $17k as a generous estimate...might as well say $20k just for the heck of it...and that is a ready to cruise ocean capable solo sailing and relatively safe cruising boat start to finish in 2 years time.

My price point on buying a $10k boat was based on my ability to save $10k in one year. It was never about the price or size, it was all about time... I had already failed at my 3 year plan (I went unemployed for almost an entire year, living off of the previous years savings), so I made the new $10k goal in December of 2009 to make a purchase within a year and get 'out there' before I died of boredom...I had the $10k saved up by November of 2010 working mostly part time with a few months of not finding work included... I spent $2k traveling and looking for the boat.

So to put another $10k (or $15k in this case) into the boat over the course of ayear while sailing and living on the boat, is perfectly acceptable to me, as opposed to just saving up for 2 years. Plus I know myself and I figured if I had $20k I'd probably end up buying a $20k boat and it would still take me another year to get out there Might as well buy a $10k boat and do the same thing in less time...

Once the boat is outfitted, my intentions are to cruise the seasons. I'll spend 6 months working, saving a minimum of $5k, and then cruising for the next six months. I can do this reliably as far as Hawaii... I'm planning to take a break in Hawaii, refit the boat (to whatever extent is necessary) and save for about two years or however long it takes me to tire of Hawaii (forever??). That will give me the cash I need to head to Asia (which is my ultimate goal) and spend several years there before coming back to the US. At that point I might consider a new career, or maybe a bigger boat...

It's important to note that I purposely budget everything based on a low income or the possiblity of going months without work. I'm fully capable of making/saving a lot more than I did last year (I was also paying rent while saving for the boat). But the fact that I will be travelling, always starting fresh in a new city, not having a car, etc.. makes it difficult to establish a business, so that leaves me to work for other people. MY $5000 every six month plan is based on that, not my earning potential... anything above that is just a bonus. Anybody living on $500 a month can realistically save $5000 in six months time with even the lowest paying jobs in the US.

So to be fair- I do hope for, and somewhat expect, to be cruising on a bit more than $500 a month, but this is to show that a smaller, cheaper, older boat is indeed a viable and realistic option. And it can be done safely and reasonably within an acceptable period of time. It can even be done a lot cheaper than this... I could have easily gotten a 26 footer for $3k and be in the bahama's right now, but I have a clear plan laid out that I know will work for me, and I'm sticking to it
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Old 22-02-2011, 14:22   #1061
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

Quote:
Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
You want numbers
Looking over receipts and adding up my proposed upgrades (all the things I mentioned earlier, rigging, batteries, windvane, dinghy, anchors etc...) I'm currently looking at about $13,300 total cost for the finished product. That includes $1000 for a the haul-out/launch and winter storage I paid right after the purchase. That also includes 1 year of liability insurance, sea-tow, and a few extra things I forgot to mention, like an epirb. (I'll probably drop the insurance once I break away from marina dependancies and I want sea-tow just for the first year because I'm still a noob...) As well as another $1000 for "miscellaneous" (like my hand bearing compass, ssb reciever, spare parts, blocks, shackles, etc.. all that adds up quick).

I suspect I'll even spend a bit more than that, so say $17k as a generous estimate...might as well say $20k just for the heck of it...and that is a ready to cruise ocean capable solo sailing and relatively safe cruising boat start to finish in 2 years time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post


My price point on buying a $10k boat was based on my ability to save $10k in one year. It was never about the price or size, it was all about time... I had already failed at my 3 year plan (I went unemployed for almost an entire year, living off of the previous years savings), so I made the new $10k goal in December of 2009 to make a purchase within a year and get 'out there' before I died of boredom...I had the $10k saved up by November of 2010 working mostly part time with a few months of not finding work included... I spent $2k traveling and looking for the boat.


So to put another $10k (or $15k in this case) into the boat over the course of ayear while sailing and living on the boat, is perfectly acceptable to me, as opposed to just saving up for 2 years. Plus I know myself and I figured if I had $20k I'd probably end up buying a $20k boat
and it would still take me another year to get out there Might as well buy a $10k boat and do the same thing in less time...

Once the boat is outfitted, my intentions are to cruise the seasons. I'll spend 6 months working, saving a minimum of $5k, and then cruising for the next six months. I can do this reliably as far as Hawaii... I'm planning to take a break in Hawaii, refit the boat (to whatever extent is necessary) and save for about two years or however long it takes me to tire of Hawaii (forever??). That will give me the cash I need to head to Asia (which is my ultimate goal) and spend
several years there before coming back to the US. At that point I might consider a new career, or maybe a bigger boat...

It's important to note that I purposely budget everything based on a low income or the possiblity of going months without work. I'm fully capable of making/saving a lot more than I did last year (I was also paying rent while saving for the boat). But the fact that I will be travelling, always starting fresh in a new city, not having a car, etc.. makes it difficult to establish a business, so that leaves me to work for other people. MY $5000 every six month plan is based on that, not my earning potential... anything above that is just a bonus. Anybody living on $500 a month can realistically save $5000 in six months time with even the lowest paying jobs in the US.


So to be fair- I do hope for, and somewhat expect, to be cruising on a bit more than $500 a month, but this is to show that a smaller, cheaper, older boat is indeed a viable and realistic option. And it can be done safely and reasonably within an acceptable period of time. It can even be done a lot cheaper than this... I could have easily gotten a 26 footer for $3k and be in the bahama's right now, but I have a clear plan laid out that I
know will work for me, and I'm sticking to it


This sounds like a very well thought out plan. Regarding the Pacific and Hawaii, certainly for a US citizen, Hawaii is a place to work. You must keep the boat in marinas, due to shortage of anchoring space, however. If you are younger than 45, and you have transferable skills, consider emigrating to NZ. With it's abundant renewable power, and location in the SW Pacific, it will be a spring board to asia. For work in Asia, try China, they are always looking for native speakers to teach English, and the pay is better than you might think. If you teach, try Brunei, if you are young.

For what it's worth, I loved asia.

INDY
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Old 22-02-2011, 18:21   #1062
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

I am on a five year plan with me selling my business in the end. I have already started to invest and get a return on what I save and I am in the auto biz so I should be able to find work anywhere in the states. Either working on cars, trucks, boats, management etc...
I am wondering if 5 years is reasonable amount of time or is this just a little over whelming right now. Slow and steady wins the race so If I keep at one project at a time and finish it. Then move on to the next I thing I will be fine. Starting with the most important and largest of course finishing with painting the hull.
Your thoughts?
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Old 22-02-2011, 18:38   #1063
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

If your a logistics/planner kinda person, that's great.
Me, I'm a little more impulsive.
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Old 23-02-2011, 01:53   #1064
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month....

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Originally Posted by w1651 View Post
I am on a five year plan with me selling my business in the end. I have already started to invest and get a return on what I save and I am in the auto biz so I should be able to find work anywhere in the states. Either working on cars, trucks, boats, management etc...
I am wondering if 5 years is reasonable amount of time or is this just a little over whelming right now. Slow and steady wins the race so If I keep at one project at a time and finish it. Then move on to the next I thing I will be fine. Starting with the most important and largest of course finishing with painting the hull.
Your thoughts?
I went through this process myself, although 20 years ago...
I did it in a similar manner.... my endowment was wiped out in the dot.com
crash....
Peak Oil occurred in 2005 for conventional, and 2008 for all liquids. That is why you are seeing insurrection throughout the arab world. Those countries are/have lost the ability to subsidize foodstuffs and fuel. Their burgeoning populations are mostly young, poorly paid or jobless, and dependent upon the subsidies.

What this means to you is that stock investments are likely to do poorly going forward, because OECD economies will be crippled by the imploding credit bubble ascerbated by resource scarcity. IF you invest in anything make certain it generates cashflow, oil wells for example.

You are much better off gaining sailing experience as soon as possible, and organizing work periodically. This can mean a return to the US for months each year, or it can mean working overseas. This permits you to go while you have your health and are young.

You are much better off going alone, unless you are in a successful relationship. In my experience, very few american women like voyaging. You must make do with casual meetings along the way.

Fair winds,

INDY
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Old 23-02-2011, 05:15   #1065
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Start a new thread

I congradulate poster 1041 and agree with poster 1042. Make a new thread re kitting out this boat. Whether Spartan or with some modern cruising equipment, is the choice of the owner of the boat being kitted out. He can accept or reject advice.
Cruising on $500/mnth should not include the project boat or any more expensive boat. Once you have the boat and have kitted it out to what you think is needed, then the question is asked re the $500/mnth. Can you cruise on this amount? That covers fuel, food,spares,custom check-ins etc. It Does Not include building a boat, buying a boat or fixing one up. This should ALL be in another thread.
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