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Old 22-01-2011, 10:13   #931
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Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Phil,
Which decade are you talking about?
Marmaris town dock for 1 hour to load water was $10 plus $5 for the water in May 2010.
I have the receipt right here.
Well, I would have the receipt right here if Nicolle was here to find the bloody thing!
Mark..... Marmaris, Greece.... last August.... refueled there as well from little tanker from gas station 1km away.... spent 3nights along side.... lovely little restaurant as you walk along the bay away from town... great food and view of sunset as you munch your salad and Souvlakis....
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Old 22-01-2011, 10:15   #932
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Sorry, I thought you meant Marmaris, Turkey. I didn't know that had one in Greece.

Funny, but the Greeks and Turks hate each other yet they share so much in common....
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Old 22-01-2011, 10:27   #933
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Mark..... that side of Evora is bare of cruisers.... tho' guess there'll be a few now I've said there's free quay's..... don't abuse them quay's guys.... else they'll see the golden goose and make our lives that much tougher...
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Old 24-01-2011, 10:24   #934
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Micro Budget Cruising

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Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
You're right I don't know fatty from jack... except for a few vid's I've seen of him talking about his circumnavigation, where he seemed to me to be a very typical cruiser.

So let me rephrase that..
Fatty Goodlander is clearly not cruising on $500 a month, so how can he represent those that are doing it?

I believe, as INDY has demonstrated, there is always more than one way to do things. The $500 a month club is not filled with 40' yachts making 'typical' tradewind circumnavigations. They are spending years traveling remote regions, working as they go, living as the locals live, avoiding the known tourist destinations, and the typical cruising waypoints, etc..

I'm not knocking Fatty, or you Mark, your anybody else. I just seems like you think you did it the only way possible, and that nobody else should even try a different way.
It would seem that Fatty Goodlander, Like Street salvaged a wreck to get a cheap big boat. During my years knocking about the far east, I not only never saw him, and no one I met ever mentioned the guy. He was unknown in Brunei, Kotakinabaloo, Singapore, Lumut, and Langkawi, not to mention Phuket.

So, I am not impressed by an opinion expressed by Fatty Goodlander. Particularly since I've never seen any of his writings except his ads in Budget Marine's Catalog recommending the purchase of gadgets.

As I mentioned in the beginning, this thread was inspired by Kevin and the Pardeys and the Hills, all of whom cruised many years on Micro-budgets beginning in their twenties. Kevin owns a southern cross 31 which he completed from a hull and deck, Lin and Larry Pardey built both of their cruising boats, and the Hills did likewise.

This thread is devoted to sharing information as to HOW TO GO ABOUT MICRO-BUDGET CRUISING, PERIOD.

If you don't want to share information about Micro-budget cruising, or don't want to learn how to cruise on a micro-budget, you are in the wrong place.

If you are an American, you have a very large cultural gap to cross to become a micro-budget cruiser. I know because I crossed it!!

It is not the purpose of this thread to convert doubting Thomases into micro-budget cruisers.

The purpose of this thread is to help wannabees choose appropriate boats, outfit their boats sensibly, choose appropriate itineraries, and cruise successfully.

AND

By using the term "wannabee" it is assumed here, that for whatever reason, particpants must cruise on a micro-budget.

If you are not in that situation, more power to you, go off to an appropriate thread for your resource base, and stay there!

If you have another agenda, please go else where.


INDY
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Old 24-01-2011, 10:33   #935
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One more portage....

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Mark..... Marmaris, Greece.... last August.... refueled there as well from little tanker from gas station 1km away.... spent 3nights along side.... lovely little restaurant as you walk along the bay away from town... great food and view of sunset as you munch your salad and Souvlakis....
The above quote captures so much within it's few words.....

The crowd, like lemmings, go from one approved watering hole to the next, by passing numerous interesting places, for trivial reasons. Just as there is a Marmaris, Greece vs Marmaris, Turkey, there is a St. Martin, FWI vs Sant Maarten, DWI, with vastly differing costs. The micro-budget cruiser must be independent, he must be willing to go the little bit more, enter the slightly more difficult harbor, cope with people who don't speak his language, to excape the madding crowd.

The micro-budget cruiser must entertain aboard, cook gourmet meals, and maintain his vessel himself. The payoff, is satisfaction and freedom.

Thank you Boatman61 for sharing with us!

INDY
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Old 24-01-2011, 10:48   #936
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Regulations.....

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
wow!! there wasnt that when we used to sail on hudson--long time ago-- 50s and early 60s-- uncle phil went to NYC-- took 4 days and nites to get under gw bridge......no engine. gaff rigged sloop..

love to know who it i s placing RULES on sjhort budget cruising--LOL-- get real..... anyone can do it and anyone can have fun doing it in any size boat under any conditions.... smooooth sailing--i thought we sail away from rules and regulations....
The over regulation of the US began with the Regan Administration. For whatever reason, Reagan hated yachtsmen, and yachts. Virtually every Republican administration since has tightened the rules. This leaves the US hostile to yachtsmen.

The good news is that, with the exception of Australia, everywhere else is not regulated to death, and many of the smaller countries such as Vanuatu, Samoa, Tonga, etc. welcome visiting yachts.

This means that a micro-budget cruiser will likely find it expedient to leave US waters as soon as possible.

I think this situation will change as the debt deflationary depression spirals and the economy worsens. We are going to see mass layoffs of police and firemen and teachers. There simply won't be the manpower necessary to enforce the regulations, and the regulations will be ignored.

INDY
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Old 24-01-2011, 10:59   #937
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Per capita income figures

Per Capita Income Around the World

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2004rank.html
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Old 24-01-2011, 11:21   #938
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Regulations....

From Mish's Global Economic Analysis:
" Two efforts to reverse some of the stunning police layoffs in one of America's most dangerous cities failed today.

A judge ruled that he won't force Camden to bring back 167 police officers who were laid off earlier in the week. Later, a union for most of the officers rejected a deal containing concessions, which would have put the majority of them back to work.

The layoffs reduced the size of the police force by nearly half in one of the nation's most impoverished and crime-ridden cities. Some civilian employees such as dispatchers also were laid off, along with about one-third of the city's firefighters.

Altogether, more than 15 percent of Camden's municipal workers, including 68 firefighters and about 100 civilians, were laid off as the city tries to fill a huge budget gap brought on by rising costs, decreased tax revenues and diminished aid from the state."


Camden, NJ is not alone, Vallejo, CA and NYC are Bankrupt.... why?

The reason is exceedingly simple. The housing crash, which is still ongoing, led to a crash in assessed valuations of real property. The crash in assessed valuations, led to a crash in property tax receipts.

The crash in property values, and in credit, led to a crash in demand, which led to mass layoffs. According to Shadowstats real unemployment is nearly 23% in the USA. That means everyone knows someone who lost his job and cannot replace it. Unmentioned, are the millions of those in their 50's who will never work again. I say never, because this credit collapse induced deflationary depression is being managed identically to the way Japan managed theirs, and that one is still ongoing 20 years later, which means that if you lost your job and you are 50 or older, it is most likely that you will reach retirement age before the debt overhang is liquidated, and the economy returns to "normal". This means that your expectations for your retirement income are going to be brutally ratcheted downward, like it or not.

So, do you hang in there.... using your savings to pay property tax on an underwater oversized house... or use your savings to buy an older boat between 28-34 ft LOA... outfit same.... and see the world on a micro-budget... until your pension kicks in.

This question... will bedevil millions... and... last time... millions camped out in the National Parks for the duration.... or filed mining claims and built cabins in the wilderness... for the duration...

This thread is for them, and if you are in a secure job and in your 30's or 40's good for you, but don't look down upon your fellows... all it takes is a FED induced curve ball, or an executive order like Carter's Grain Embargo... to clean you out... then what????

INDY
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Old 24-01-2011, 11:32   #939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goprisko View Post
From Mish's Global Economic Analysis:
" Two efforts to reverse some of the stunning police layoffs in one of America's most dangerous cities failed today.

A judge ruled that he won't force Camden to bring back 167 police officers who were laid off earlier in the week. Later, a union for most of the officers rejected a deal containing concessions, which would have put the majority of them back to work.

The layoffs reduced the size of the police force by nearly half in one of the nation's most impoverished and crime-ridden cities. Some civilian employees such as dispatchers also were laid off, along with about one-third of the city's firefighters.

Altogether, more than 15 percent of Camden's municipal workers, including 68 firefighters and about 100 civilians, were laid off as the city tries to fill a huge budget gap brought on by rising costs, decreased tax revenues and diminished aid from the state."

Camden, NJ is not alone, Vallejo, CA and NYC are Bankrupt.... why?

The reason is exceedingly simple. The housing crash, which is still ongoing, led to a crash in assessed valuations of real property. The crash in assessed valuations, led to a crash in property tax receipts.

The crash in property values, and in credit, led to a crash in demand, which led to mass layoffs. According to Shadowstats real unemployment is nearly 23% in the USA. That means everyone knows someone who lost his job and cannot replace it. Unmentioned, are the millions of those in their 50's who will never work again. I say never, because this credit collapse induced deflationary depression is being managed identically to the way Japan managed theirs, and that one is still ongoing 20 years later, which means that if you lost your job and you are 50 or older, it is most likely that you will reach retirement age before the debt overhang is liquidated, and the economy returns to "normal". This means that your expectations for your retirement income are going to be brutally ratcheted downward, like it or not.

So, do you hang in there.... using your savings to pay property tax on an underwater oversized house... or use your savings to buy an older boat between 28-34 ft LOA... outfit same.... and see the world on a micro-budget... until your pension kicks in.

This question... will bedevil millions... and... last time... millions camped out in the National Parks for the duration.... or filed mining claims and built cabins in the wilderness... for the duration...

This thread is for them, and if you are in a secure job and in your 30's or 40's good for you, but don't look down upon your fellows... all it takes is a FED induced curve ball, or an executive order like Carter's Grain Embargo... to clean you out... then what????

INDY
Goprisko..... SHUUUUUSSSSHHHHHHHH.......
Your making it sound to easy... we'll have everyone and their G/mother out here if you keep this up.....
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Old 24-01-2011, 11:34   #940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goprisko View Post
The over regulation of the US began with the Regan Administration. For whatever reason, Reagan hated yachtsmen, and yachts. Virtually every Republican administration since has tightened the rules. This leaves the US hostile to yachtsmen.

The good news is that, with the exception of Australia, everywhere else is not regulated to death, and many of the smaller countries such as Vanuatu, Samoa, Tonga, etc. welcome visiting yachts.

This means that a micro-budget cruiser will likely find it expedient to leave US waters as soon as possible.

I think this situation will change as the debt deflationary depression spirals and the economy worsens. We are going to see mass layoffs of police and firemen and teachers. There simply won't be the manpower necessary to enforce the regulations, and the regulations will be ignored.

INDY
Indy: You're right about the uberregulation of yachtsmen. I see it first hand as I am in the USCG Auxiliary.

I am a "wannabee" as I when I retire, I want to "make the crossing" to a micro-budget cruiser. However, I will probably build my boat so I can know exactly what's in it. (I am an engineer by training.)

I do thank you for you comments that micro-budget cruising can be done. I have no issues for the "culture shift" as you mention. I speak five languages well so I think that I can adapt.

Hopefully we may get to meet face to face one day if I can get my boat and get out of this rat race rut.

Once again, many thanks

Scott
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Old 24-01-2011, 12:13   #941
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goprisko View Post
If you don't want to share information about Micro-budget cruising, or don't want to learn how to cruise on a micro-budget, you are in the wrong place.

It is not the purpose of this thread to convert doubting Thomases into micro-budget cruisers.

If you are not in that situation, more power to you, go off to an appropriate thread for your resource base, and stay there!

If you have another agenda, please go else where.
Well said!
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Old 24-01-2011, 13:02   #942
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Quote:
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The PTB never learn. The deflationary depression Indy refers to has begun and will accelerate when this chart turns down decisively in the near future, me thinks.

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Old 24-01-2011, 13:11   #943
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Look guys... forget all this 'Per Capita' BS......... last time I went to India... 1 Nan bread in the UK cost $2.50 for pre-packaged.... for the same price I could have bought 40 fresh baked Nan's from a street vendor...
Wanna shop in the supermarkets... pay the $'s...
Shop where the locals go... you save bucks... germs/bacteria die after a certain temp... where's the worry... wash well before use... avoid ice cubes is the best tip I can give if you want to avoid stomach problems.. unless they're your own after a 5min boil of the water....
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Old 24-01-2011, 13:51   #944
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I have a 28' Pearson Triton and will be leaving in June of 2012 for some extended cruising (all of it outside the United States). I'll be alone. Very bare bones -- no refrigerator, freezer, watermaker, radar, etc. I'm hoping to get by on 400.00 a month. In any case, the less it costs, the more places I can get to and see!
Jay, sounds like fun -- in a sound Alberg boat. In case you have not come across the voyages of James Bladwin and his yacht Atom, heres a link:

Atom Voyages | Voyaging Around the World on the Sailboat Atom

His approach aligns with the sentiment of this thread, having one round-the-world engineless and an overall make-do approach. I met him as a fledgling voyager a few years ago in GA and learned about HF radio, cheap dipoles, welding stainless, etc. Another spanish friend of ours was there fitting out his triton for transatlantic to his home in Canaries, his voyage is on James' site. He had a homemade little stitch and glue tender, and no inboard, but he's crossing oceans.

I for one am inspired by the stories of those that do it for cheap. Not because they are any better than those that have $$ but because I don't have $$. It is all relative though, as I have one sweet boat that I picked up in SW FL this past summer doing exactly what a previous poster said: taking advantage of inexpensive boats on the market. I was able to buy my "retirement" boat 30 years early, just have a steep monthly payment.

That does mean we are going to sail offshore in Nov 2012 (20 months!!) for a three month sabbatical cruise to the carribean. Had not planned that before with the smaller boat but now there are no limits from an equipment point of view. It is a simple boat though, with no electronics. Like not even a depth sounder. After 800 miles with no sounder, I know I can do without. So, we'll do it for relatively cheap and report back in a couple of years.

c.
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Old 24-01-2011, 14:11   #945
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CHS..... the 3 things I rely on most are compass, sounder, log..... that info tied in with good chart work is as good as GPS if all else fails... especially in fog....
ok... you did good so far but.... I'd fix that sounder..
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