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Old 06-05-2010, 09:49   #76
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we've been out, and back in, and out again, and we're leaving again soon, but have been on the boat for the last 7 years and traveled from Alaska to Mexico.. we're now heading for Central America..
But experance aside,
we've been shooting tword that magic number of 500 per month.. and over the last couple years, we've searched to enterain ourselves in other ways and to do all the work needed to opperate the boat, without spending a lot of money or to "outsource" the work needed..
We buy our toilet paper by the case and pack it away in the forward lockers, and anything else we need, buy bulk and sto it..
You dont have to be a bum to live life on the lighter side.. and all the electronics I installed 7 years ago are still working in good order.
That magic number of 500, we're thinking we can do it or come really close.
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Old 06-05-2010, 11:47   #77
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have been on the boat for the last 7 years we've been shooting tword that magic number of 500 per month.... We buy our toilet paper by the case .
After 7 years you know your boat and cruising. I think its the boat that have the most exuberant use of money, so if thats down pat then you have a chance. I notice you say "shooting toward" so that means even after 7 years setting up the boat and the life you are still 'just' shooting towards $500 per month and doing it in Central America which is quite economical.

We are still battling in year 3 (the beginning of year 3) and on a boat that we could have nicely spent $20k setting up. Our dink has more holes than a sieve and lots of fittings need replacing... we have been moving fast and need 3 moths off here to organise, and then probably 1 year off in the Caribbean to get us square.
So by year 4 (the end of year 4) we will hopefully have our financial head above water.
By year 7 we may know how to do it all!

I just hope the difficulties of getting there done scuttle the whole project.

So maybe after 7 years $500 per month is fine, but we chew through 4 or 5 times that much (ooops, forgot about tax, so 4 times) and still can't seem to be getting ahead.


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Old 06-05-2010, 14:01   #78
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Well, Mark, OCCASIONALLY your posts are a bit much, but I don't think you need to go so far as to call yourself a cruising turkey.
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Old 06-05-2010, 19:00   #79
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Grenada, Voyaging under sail and other matters...

Hi,

First of all, would the person who changed my reference to Eric Hiscock's classic
text, Voyaging and Cruising Under Sail, please revert my attribution?

His book Wandering Under Sail, published shortly before the war, did mention Dyarchy, and his trip to Skye, but did not provide the reference and photos of a anchoring pawl that I referred to..

Next, this thread is not promoting sea gypsying, or other denigrations of yachting mentioned earlier. And... Grenada is a posslble place for a cruiser on a budget, provided... he has a simple boat, uses local foods whenever possible, entertains aboard, uses public transport, etc.. Grenada's charges for cruising permits are low, there is no additional charge for anchoring, there is no demand to use pumpout facilities, water is available from the locals for next to nothing, they have local produce, the public transport system is frequent, island wide, and cheap.

I apologize should anyone feel this thread hijacked another thread, with the same name, being new, I simply did not know of the existence of that one. However, that one does not seem to keep focused on the practicalities of actually going, and I intend to mentor this one so it does....

The respondent who mentioned cruising Puget Sound and to Hawaii and back is cruising just as significantly as those who set off for the Caribbean, across the Atlantic, or anywhere else for that matter.

The respondent who frothed off about yachtsmen stealing cutlery, and napkins misses the whole point of this thread... which is how to control your expenses so you don't fall into that level of desperation.

To give you an idea of what is possible once you control your expenses, read Voyaging On a Small Income by Annnie Hill, published by Tiller..

OR..

Think about this...

Friends of mine, a husband and wife teaching team from Canada and their 4 children spent a year on Penhryn Atoll in the Northern Cooks, teaching kids at the local school. The community adopted them and provided what it could for them, but such support did not include money. When I saw them in Whangerai NZ they were off to Korea to teach English to rebuild the Cruising Kitty, the Kids were in a local school, and charged with keeping the ship safe and sound in their parent's absence.

The last item we discussed was dinghies and provisioning...

The next item we need to cover is navigation...

But before we get into that, I'd like to add my thoughts to those of the respondent who observed that many europeans, Kiwis, Aussies, etc, can be found backpacking and yachting around the world on shoestrings, but Americans are strangely absent.

His observation is in accordance with what I found during my 15 years overseas...

Further to the point.. in my discussions with superyacht skippers, it was unanimous, that American Ladies made the worst crew, and the best were either Kiwis or Aussies... with Brits close behind... to that I can add that Russian girls make good crew, as to French girls...

Why?

It seems that the Americans have lost their way... the current version of the culture is so focused on me, me, me... and the mall... that the old spirit of can do, and making do disappeared....except for a very small minority...

Necessary to appreciate this thread is the realization that I don't and won't worry about what is politically correct, is the latest fad... or follows advice given by vendors at boat shows... I'm sharing what works and has worked for generations..

The bilge keeler shown earlier, is an excellent pocket cruiser, Maurice Griffith designed many of this type, for owners who had to store their boats in tidal estuaries which dried out completely. Properly designed, they have gone everywhere.

Regarding Mark J... if it has taken you 7 years to outfit your boat, it is either too complicated, too large, or both... The only inexpensive place to buy gear in the Caribbean is Panama... the chanderies in the West Indies are more expensive than in the states, and you will be off to Fajardo to West Marine, or Salinas, or ordering parts via the Internet to get things.

The key to going off on a budget of this nature is to make three lists...

First, essentials....

Second, desirables...

Third, luxuries...

Then go to the BWCA on a canoe trip lasting 2 weeks...

Then revise your lists...

Then go and hike the Appalachian Trail with a backpack for 2 weeks..

Then revise your lists...

Then divide the list of essentials into three categories... essentials, desirables, and luxuries..

Once you have done this a few times you might have a list like this one:

Chameleon Dinghy with two sets of oars... and sailing rig

Windex for wind direction

Hand lead

Bucket head

Water stored in 20 L plastic cans

Hole in counter to accept plastic wash basin

Yuloh large enough to move the boat in calms

Fresh gaskets on all ports, and screens for all of them and the companionway

Fresh foam mattresses for all bunks and settees

Diaphragm bilge pump

Refurbished and adjusted steering compass
HockeyPuck hand bearing compass
Freiberger Sextant
Quartz Clock
Barometer
stopwatch
plotting sheets
Basic and Intermediate Celestial Navigation by\ Bruce Paulk
Cruising Guides for the areas to be visited
Paper charts or chart kits for the areas to be visited.

All sails refurbished using your own sewing machine or the palm and hand needles.

5 anchors
2 rodes
250 ft of chain

chain pawl

First aid kit

rebed all lifeline stanchion bases

charcoal grill, the kind you find for a few dollars...

two burner LPG stove or primus stove

Awning

Pressure Cooker

Pressure Canner

Storage containers for salt, coffee, tea, sugar, powdered milk, etc.

INDY
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Old 06-05-2010, 19:14   #80
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I almost forgot...

oil lamps.. including nav and anchor lamps

Spare running rigging
Refurbish standing rigging using poured sockets, and bronze turnbuckles

buy the wind vane book and make your own...

spare blocks

spare chimneys for the lamps

spare wicks

lamp oil

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Old 06-05-2010, 23:11   #81
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Well, Mark, OCCASIONALLY your posts are a bit much, but I don't think you need to go so far as to call yourself a cruising turkey.
Thats funny!

We'll have to leave! Or I'll have to stop being a turkey


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Old 07-05-2010, 01:50   #82
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Five anchors is overkill, three should be enough
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Old 07-05-2010, 02:05   #83
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Question Free French Medical

Hi Indy please explain the above which you stated in another post. Are you implying that ANY nationality sailing into Martinique would be given free medical attention?
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Old 07-05-2010, 12:26   #84
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Equipment...

Cruising on a limited budget involves lying at anchor virtually all the time... this level of
funding does not support nights in marinas....

It is essential that the boat be outfitted with sufficient ground tackle to cope in the event an anchor is lost or must be abandoned... This means that you need 5 anchors...

A storm anchor... generally 50% HEAVIER THAN THE BOWER
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Old 07-05-2010, 12:59   #85
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Anchors continued....

Two bowers, one on the roller, the other stowed in the bilge
Two kedges, one in a locker readily accessible from the deck with a rode ready to attach, and the other in the bilge with another rode ready to attach.

The kedges are best danforths... for the weight this type of anchor has the greatest holding power... They will be essential for kedging off in the event of grounding, and must be able to be deployed quickly, from that hard dink I recommended.

For a boat between 30-34 ft LOA displacing 5-8 tons the following sizes of anchors and chain and rode suffice...

Storm Anchor 66# Bruce or fisherman(Paul Luke)

Bower Anchor 44# Bruce

Kedge 24 # Danforth

Chain 3/8" BBB

Rode 1/2" nylon

Before we go further, an earlier respondent made snide remarks regarding budget cruisers in Grenada... Specifically, he claimed such people attend restaurants for the purpose of stealing their cutlery... My wife just bought 36 soup spoons for $8, and I remember that sets of 6 or 8 place settings are available at KMart for about $50 or so... for the good stuff... Since a meal in a restaurant in Grenada seldom costs less than EC$25 per person, or US$ 10, would seem such a method of acquiring cutlery constitutes a mis application of funds.. Far better and cheaper to simply forgo one dinner out and buy the stuff needed.

Specifically, a budget cruiser must first and foremost learn to prioritize his use of funds.

That said, next on our list are the three most important things to deal with...

Hull, Deck, Rig

The Hull must be sound... if it is not, nothing else matters...

The Deck must be sound if it is not, nothing else matters... Don't be like the couple I knew, who spent lavishly on fancy plaster work and wall coverings for their new house, while neglecting the leak prone roof... Shortly after the interior was complete, it rained, and rained and destroyed the fancy interior...

First you fix the hull, then you fix the deck, then you do whatever is necessary to ensure the two are bonded together with a leak proof joint... Don't be like Hal Roth in Whisper, who suffered major losses from leaks at the hull-deck joint together with sodden bedding, ruined books and charts, not to mention the discomfort, until finally after 2 major cruises, he bonded the deck to the hull with 6 layers of cloth and resin.... inside and out...and solved the problem..

The rig must be sound... since all the boats we are discussing here are over 20 years old, it is virtually certain the standing rigging must be replaced... Call NewFound Metals in Washington State and get a set of bronze sockets in the size appropriate for your boat.. most likely you will want ones with eyes, since you will be using jaw and jaw turnbuckles, and the tangs on the mast likely have been pinned for eye terminations. You will save money by buying all the wire on a roll. See Cruising Rigs and Rigging By Ralph Naranjo for details on fluxing and pouring the molten Zinc into the sockets to secure the 1X19 SS wire.

Once you have dealt with hull, deck, and rig, you can go on to other things...

Lifeline Stanchions.. should be through bolted with backing plates the size of the stanchion bases on the opposite side, and with hardwood blocks between the GRP layers if the deck is sandwiched... On many boats you will have to use a hole saw to cut through the bottom layer to remove the balsa core, and a thick resiin like T88 to bond the hardwood block to the tiop GRP layer and several layers of cloth on the bottom to reseal the whole shebang..

Lifelines... fortget the plastic covering... go with a larger size wire terminate them with eyes so you can use lanyards to connect them to the pulpits, in an adjustable manner.

Mast... look over the step careffully... on boats this old quite often moisture has entered the framing for the step and is soft.. this must be replaced... If the mast heel is in really bad shape, you may have to cut a section off, and adjust the step accordingly.

Mast wiring... if you are on a really tight budget, there won't be any.. Otherwise use 5 conductor to provide wiring for the masthead tricolor, masthead anchor, mid mast steaming, and spreader/deck light, they can have a common ground... Note that the windex has no wiring...

Running rigging... plan on replacing all of it,. and sufficient spare line must be in the locker to replace it later. Use minimum 7/16 for sheets, as that is the minimum size comfortable to the hand for working sails, and lighter stuff for drifters and light air sails...

Boom and gooseneck... examine this carefully and R&R or replace worn out parts.

Sails... go over these carefully, they are your engine... fiz faulty stitching, find used replacements for those beyond salvage...

Cockpit drains... our minimum cruiser will have two or more of these... they must be at least 1.5" in diameter, and clear, and in good condition... fix these before any other plumbing...

Tiller and rudder fittings... check and replace worn parts, buy a spare tiller and ensure it fits the head so replacement at sea is quick and easy. Our minimum cruiser will not have a wheel..

Steering compass... swing it.. make a deviation table... get a copy of Bowditch and learn how it is done...check the wiring for the light, ensure the light works, get a spare lamp for the light, wire this up to a dry cell battery box unless you have house batteries.... our minimum cruiser will not have either engine or house batteries, or house wiring...

Navigation... get a copy of Duttons or Bowditch... learn to take bearings with your hand bearing compass and to plot your position on a chart... practice with your sextant, learn to adjust your sextant... learn to plot sun, moon, planet, and star sights.. This is one of your foundation skills... you must be proficient...

INDY
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Old 07-05-2010, 13:07   #86
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Cruising on a limited budget involves lying at anchor virtually all the time...
We've found a great investment is Yacht Club membership.. Year befor last, we tracked our usage... our Membership is $225.00 a year.. and in the summer of 08, we spent 114 days tyed to a dock belonging to another club, at no charge under "Reciprocals' Used the showers and the washers and dryers..
This comming weekend is a good example..
We''ll be visiting Tinsley Island, Owned by the St Frances Yacht Club..
Our total investment will be a pot of sweet and sour beans for the pot-luck on the docks come saturday afternoon..
we carry ourselves well and our boat shows well..
We spend very little money, have a great time and dont have to subject ourselves to using a 5 gallon bucket to crap in..
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Old 07-05-2010, 13:12   #87
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About this Thread....

This thread is specifically geared to provide wannabees with the information they need to go off cruising on a very limited budget, within a year or less. It is not for everyone, and specifically is not for those looking for floating condos..

About me....

I am Dr. George W. Oprisko, Executive Director of Public Research Institute... between 1992, when Pegasus and I locked through at Chicago into the Illinois Waterway and a year ago, we covered more than 60,000 miles visiting more than 100 countries on our circumnavigation..

I have been on the water in anything that floats since the age of 3, when I floated down the tippecanoe river on an air mattress.. that was 60 years ago...

I have cruised in kayaks, canoe, dinghies, and sailboats between 27 and 45 ft LOD
I have raced and won in every class from 15s to one tonners..

I don't follow the latest fads, and don't go to boat shows anymore... but I do cruise, and I do maintain my ship... I know what works and what doesn't. What you will get here is what works...geared for the guy on a very limited budget.

If you have issues with me my email is: goprisko@oceanvoyaging.org

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Old 07-05-2010, 13:19   #88
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Yacht Clubs....

Our respondent has a very valid point... I belonged to the Great Lakes Cruising Club for many years, and recommend anyone cruising the lakes join that wonderful organization...

Yacht clubs were invented to provide yachtsmen with pooled resources so individually they shared the burden of shoreside facilities, and many clubs owned boats available for rent to members. If your cruising is of the vacation variety, or in an area populated by clubs, by all means join one nearby and make friends!!

Even after you leave home waters, your club membership will serve you in good stead... carry your card with you ... many off shore clubs will provice reciprocal privleges, if they know you are a club member, and that includes the club here in St. Thomas...

This is a welcome addition to the information in this thread...

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Old 07-05-2010, 13:24   #89
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Not knocking you're experance INDY,
just saying you dont have to live life without comforts to stay on a budget and cruise on little funds..
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Old 07-05-2010, 15:58   #90
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Yacht Clubs I have known....

For the reord I have belonged to the following Yacht Clubs....

Indiana Harbor Boat Club
Chicago Yacht Club
Great Lakes Cruising Club
Michigan City Yacht Club
Alawai Yacht Club
Golden Gate Yacht Club
Treasure Island Yacht Club
Ft. Lauderdale Yacht Club
Sarasota Yacht Club
Ft. Meyers Yacht Club
Musket Cove Yacht Club
Bay of Islands Yacht Club
Hebe Haven Yacht Club
Manila Yacht Club
Kota Kiina Balu Yacht Club
Brunei Yacht Club
Lumut Yacht Club
Royal Natal Yacht Club
Luderitz Yacht Club
St. Thomas Yacht Club

In all these clubs I found fellowship and good times, and I am happy our respondent does as well..

However, to tout an experience at the St. Frances Club as representative of all clubs, and therefore a justification for a reader of this blog to not purchase and stow sufficient ground tackle is disingenuous at best, and in the event life and property is lost, criminal.

In the event of grounding you may find that two anchors are not sufficient to do the job, though the two specified are relatively light and on rodes, so they are easily deployed, it may be necessary to use the bower, or both of them to turn the yacht back seaward and work her off in the event of severe stranding, as Hal Roth did in Torres Strait. Success of that operation may determine whether you live or die, depending upon conditions at the time..

Regarding comforts... first one crawls, then one walks, and ultimately one runs...

First a wannabe must deal with the essentlals necessary for safe and reliable operation. This thread is for the purpose of cutting through to the quick as to what is absolutely essential for that. If his budget permits, he can always add desirables to his list...

Take the marine head for example:

It you use a bucket you are exempt from holding tank compliance, because all the regs specify toilets connected via pipes to the sea, and buckets have none. So, enforcing the idea that only a WC is permissable, sets out wannabe on a complex and expensive path involving WC, valves, piping, holding tank, deck fill to access same, and possibly a full electrical system to operate it. If our wannabe has the funds for this... and wants... this... fine... but for I or anyone to insist that a bucket properly managed cannot suffice is disengenuous, and self serving.

Take the washing maching for example:

I mostly wear a speedo bikini, I do so because I do my laundry on rocks in a stream, or in a 5 gallon bucket... I use salt water for the washing and fresh for the rinsing.. I hang the laundry on the lifelines to dry. I know of many who insist that only an automatic washing machine will do... and they go through the expense of installing the machine, wiring it up... installing a water maker and wiring that up.. and installing a generator to run the lot and wiring that up... To categorically state that such a setup is necessary is ludicrous..

This blog is geared to the bloke who wants to go now... and would rather go simply than wait precious years to make payments on washing machines and WCs.

If this is not your style, I 'm certain threads could be opened for Crusing on $1000 / month, $2000 / month , $4000/ month and $ 40,000 per month..

Perhaps one of you might start one... there you can discuss roller furling, washing machines, water makers, jet skis, and the lot...

INDY
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