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Old 04-08-2010, 11:10   #661
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Originally Posted by osirissail View Post
Dan - unless you are only going to be using the boat inside coastal waters where you will not be needing an engine for more than a couple of hours per day - seriously rethink the electric motor option. As a practical matter, the technology is not yet up to providing more than short intermittent propulsion. If it was we would all be using it.
- - The Caribbean Loop involves virtually dead upwind into the main currents all the way to Antiqua. Then as you turn south the wind will turn southeast and you will be beating all the way to Trinidad or as far south as you wish to go.
- - You would need a Honda i2000eu and a battery charger to even start to keep the batteries up. It is also a good idea to have one in any case as there are times when you need electricity to run tools and other stuff.
- - I would strongly suggest mounting one of those "up/down" outboard mounts on the transom and having a good 9.9 outboard to supplement or replace the electric drive. Wait until you get to the Bahamas to buy the outboard where you can still get new 2-cycle engines which are about half the weight of the 4-cycles outboard sold in the USA. There is an excellent store in Marsh Harbor that has some of the best prices in the Caribbean on outboards. You have to go all the way to St. Martin to get better prices.
What do you do when you run out of gas! Technology is farther than you think. Combine solar, wind, and water regeneration for the batteries and you will have plenty of power when needed. If you don't take a nap. I would much rather be out on the sea with a electric motor and no juice than with an outboard with no fuel. These are brushless motors designed for a sailboat. Just like an engine if you need to go farther just add more fuel or juice so to speak.

Dan
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Old 04-08-2010, 16:12   #662
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Well I worry that something might happen to me and I wouldn't be able to go cruising. At $500/mo I could go now and never come back..............I think I'm going to keep working and save up for an enjoyable experience instead of a survior one.
Friends have got great deals on boats which were outfitted by guys who wanted nothing but the best. They took so long to get out, that they ran into health problems before ever leaving. having to sell the boat with their dreams unfulfilled. That is an increasingly common story. We aren't getting younger. The world is not getting freer.
In 2,000 it cost $3 a night for a mooring at Niue. In 2003 , it was $5.Now I'm told it is $15. Mexico was a great place to cruise. I wouldn't bother now , and if I hadn't gone when I did, I might never have. Cruising fees and restrictions are getting ever greater, and putting it off may eventually make cruising off limits.
A client, who has a fireman's pension, Canada pension and Old Age pension said the fees in the Caribean are getting so high as to make it prohibitively expensive. Expect that to spread.
Go now, or you may lose the option.
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Old 04-08-2010, 20:02   #663
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"Some of the new brass that came with the boat will also be sold as well as the brass window frames. It just defers the cost of new Lexan windows".

My mind boggles reading this, Skipper Dan. I guess you're speaking of the portlights, and I assume you have bronze frames, AND you're going to "upgrade" to lexan. Man O man is there a learning curve in your future.
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Old 05-08-2010, 00:08   #664
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I posted this on my other forum, I thought it was interesting although maybe not correct.

Thanks for the input Larry.

I am more familiar with airplanes and props but I think they work about the same.

We first take the max rpm we are running plug that into the chart to find out how fast the plane will go with each pitch. Shorten or lengthen the prop to let the engine run at max rpm. The pitch tells you how fast the plane will travel.

I am not sure the Triton was designed around an Atomic 4. I think an Atomic 4 fit into the general usage for the Triton. The Atomic 4 went as high as 20 hp. When only 10 to 12 could really be used. Running the rpm only to 1500 gave you 11.9 BHP. It has a 13 inch 2 blade prop. So if I had 12 hp available at 1500 rpm it would do the same thing. If I found out what hp the electric motor had at 1500 rpm I should know if it will turn the prop. Alternatively I could shorten the prop and turn a higher rpm. I could also go with a 3 bladed prop. The electric motor I am going to use is 13 hp @ 48v same as the Atomic 4. Only this will far outperform the Atomic 4.

This is what I have so far. this is from limited knowledge but I am learning every day.

It takes 1 Kw per ton of displacement.
750w = 1 hp

36 v 140 amps 1400 rpm 3500 watts E Teck motor.
comes to 3500/750=4.7 hp * 2.5 conversion factor to compare it to the Atomic 4 = 11.75 hp. @ 1500 rpm the Atomic 4 is 11.9 Very close.

48 v 180 amps 4800 rpm 9800 watts E Teck motor.
comes to 9800/750=13 hp * 2.5 conversion factor = 32.5 hp but at 4800 rpm if I cut the rpm in half I am at 16.25 The Atomic 4 is 16.2 @ 2000.

At 36v 3500 watts the 1 kw per ton works out very close to a Triton at 4 ton.
At 48v 9800 watts /2 = 4900 it comes out in my favor with a half ton to spare and that is at half throttle. If I use a reduction drive on the 48v of 2 to 1 I am out performing the Atomic 4 at every level.

36v at 140 amps run wide open 6 * 260 Ah batteries / 50% = 780 usable Ah. 780 / 140 amps = 5.5 hrs. run at half throttle or less and you will go much farther same as if you throttled back on the Atomic 4.

48v at 180 amps 8 * 260 Ah batteries / 50% = 1040 usable Ah. 1040 / 90 (180/2) amps = 11.5 hrs throttle back even more and even I need some sleep.

Is any of my math correct. I gave it my best shot.

Dan
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Old 05-08-2010, 00:15   #665
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"Some of the new brass that came with the boat will also be sold as well as the brass window frames. It just defers the cost of new Lexan windows".

My mind boggles reading this, Skipper Dan. I guess you're speaking of the portlights, and I assume you have bronze frames, AND you're going to "upgrade" to lexan. Man O man is there a learning curve in your future.
Clue me in I am all ears. I plan on taking out the port lights with bronze frames and using a one piece Lexan to cover both windows. Fastened with regular windshield adhesive and fasteners. Bronze glaze on the outside and maybe clear on the inside. I am not sure about the condensation effect I would get without being able to evacuate the space.

I would love to hear why it won't work it is why I am here.

Dan
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Old 05-08-2010, 00:52   #666
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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Friends have got great deals on boats which were outfitted by guys who wanted nothing but the best. They took so long to get out, that they ran into health problems before ever leaving. having to sell the boat with their dreams unfulfilled. That is an increasingly common story. We aren't getting younger. The world is not getting freer.
In 2,000 it cost $3 a night for a mooring at Niue. In 2003 , it was $5.Now I'm told it is $15. Mexico was a great place to cruise. I wouldn't bother now , and if I hadn't gone when I did, I might never have. Cruising fees and restrictions are getting ever greater, and putting it off may eventually make cruising off limits.
A client, who has a fireman's pension, Canada pension and Old Age pension said the fees in the Caribean are getting so high as to make it prohibitively expensive. Expect that to spread.
Go now, or you may lose the option.
Yes!
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Old 05-08-2010, 05:53   #667
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...The Atomic 4 went as high as 20 hp. When only 10 to 12 could really be used. Running the rpm only to 1500 gave you 11.9 BHP...
I'm not questioning your calculations, Dan, but I assume they're targeted on achieving hull speed in calm water conditions. My former boat had a 56 hp Yanmar. If I recall correctly, only 17-18 hp was needed to bring it up to hull speed. Yet I recall vividly one day when I found myself on a lee shore with reefs here and there, when a squall line came through with 50 kt winds and short, steep waves. It took most of that 56 hp to keep the boat headed into the wind, making a knot or so of way. Let me tell you, I was glad to have an "oversized" engine!
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Old 05-08-2010, 06:36   #668
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Clue me in I am all ears. I plan on taking out the port lights with bronze frames and using a one piece Lexan to cover both windows. Fastened with regular windshield adhesive and fasteners. Bronze glaze on the outside and maybe clear on the inside. I am not sure about the condensation effect I would get without being able to evacuate the space.

I would love to hear why it won't work it is why I am here.

Dan
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O Skipper My Skipper,

Your earlier "brass window frames" remark indicates that you are at the beginning of the learning curve. I think there may be plenty of real experts chiming in, if they want to spend the time to explain Boatstuff 101 to you. I don't.

Obviously, destroying the Triton's unique traditional look doesn't matter to you, whereas that's kind of a big deal for me. Will there be leakage and adhesion problems with your plan? Yes sir. My unsolicited advice would be to stop work on the boat for a month or so while you read everything you can about boat maintenance. You'll save both work and money that way.

Another thought is that you should start your own thread. A discussion of sealants wouldn't fit this "blog" on low budget cruising but more particularly, your planned switch to electric propulsion is leading-edge stuff that deserves to be separate from all that went before here.

T
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Old 05-08-2010, 07:09   #669
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O Skipper My Skipper,

Your earlier "brass window frames" remark indicates that you are at the beginning of the learning curve. I think there may be plenty of real experts chiming in, if they want to spend the time to explain Boatstuff 101 to you. I don't.

Obviously, destroying the Triton's unique traditional look doesn't matter to you, whereas that's kind of a big deal for me. Will there be leakage and adhesion problems with your plan? Yes sir. My unsolicited advice would be to stop work on the boat for a month or so while you read everything you can about boat maintenance. You'll save both work and money that way.

Another thought is that you should start your own thread. A discussion of sealants wouldn't fit this "blog" on low budget cruising but more particularly, your planned switch to electric propulsion is leading-edge stuff that deserves to be separate from all that went before here.

T
Wow, that's kind of harsh tgzzz.

By the way, I always thought sailboats were for sailing, not putting on a pedestal.
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Old 05-08-2010, 08:09   #670
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1. Guilty as charged, Doodles. Apologies to Skipper Dan. I thought I ended on a sincere positive note though.

2. I'm wrapping up a nasty job of replacing lexan portlights that were improperly installed and sealed, then left to sit and leak and rot the surrounding areas. Have fitted new wood in the much-too-large gaping holes port and sb and today start reglassing to hide the PO's sins of ignorance. I'm looking at some used bronze opening ports to install.

3. I am very interested in the electric discussion but I'm not tossing out my Yanmar. Hud's remarks about reserve power will ring true for a lot of us.
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Old 05-08-2010, 10:20   #671
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Ok Everyone I am going to put this $ 500.00 a month notion to the real test. On August 31st I am leaving my slip in Ventura CA. I am going to hang out in the Channel Islands, Catalina, Newport Beach and San Diego Bay on the hook or mooring till the end of October then south. Moorings are $ 5.00 a night in Newport. San Diego has an anchorage that is free for 90 days. Anchorage at the islands is free. My boat is a Downeast 32 (DE 32) it is well equiped now, it had hardly anything when I bought it 1 1/2 years ago with this very notion in mind. I will explain the equipment and the provison list later. I will log this whole adventure on line. Between now and the end of August I will be taking on supplies and fine tuning. I will update often. So what do you think? I am ready are you?
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Old 05-08-2010, 10:23   #672
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1. Guilty as charged, Doodles. Apologies to Skipper Dan. I thought I ended on a sincere positive note though.

2. I'm wrapping up a nasty job of replacing lexan portlights that were improperly installed and sealed, then left to sit and leak and rot the surrounding areas. Have fitted new wood in the much-too-large gaping holes port and sb and today start reglassing to hide the PO's sins of ignorance. I'm looking at some used bronze opening ports to install.

3. I am very interested in the electric discussion but I'm not tossing out my Yanmar. Hud's remarks about reserve power will ring true for a lot of us.
Not necessary to apologize, I am a big boy. I am also not as green as you think. I have done body work professionally for 11 years I currently rebuild airplanes. This is nothing new to me. We use Lexan in airplanes for windows. I do know the value of doing things correct. I feel for your pain with your project as it seems that someone did not do it correct. I will start my own thread if that helps. I never turn away information it all gets used.

As far as your Yanmar and extra power goes, you have to define your mission for anything that you use. I may be a rookie but I do know you do not sail in an area that has hazards to leeward. I am going to sail on a budget not because I have to but because I want to. I do not want to be dependent on filling up a 50 gallon tank to go out sailing. I have that problem now. My plane holds 60 gallons and I do not use it because it costs me more than I want to spend to fly.

Dan
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Old 05-08-2010, 16:16   #673
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Skip- I would be very careful about getting rid of bronze portlights. I have seen lexan placed over the top during ocean voyages, but they are the cat's meow at port. I am now on my 3rd ocean going boat, and with each one I get more careful about throwing out what the previous owner did and why they did it. And if it came from the factory that way, I am very very careful...
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Old 05-08-2010, 18:13   #674
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Noted Newt,

I am wondering though, do you think they had urethane adhesive sealers like they do today. I work with very old planes built in the 40's and 50's. Some of the things they used are no longer even available. I am not trying to reinvent the wheel here. I only want to make sure I have better strength and a leak proof joint. lowering the center of mass as well as reduced polishing are just a plus. I'm trying to go on less than $500.00 a month so I only have enough polish to do the little lights.

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Old 05-08-2010, 18:20   #675
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I may be a rookie but I do know you do not sail in an area that has hazards to leeward.

Dan
I do think you should start another thread.

And..........that statement I think you made in hast, don't you?

What is leeward today is windward tomorrow, or even in 10 minutes.
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