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Old 14-07-2010, 15:28   #586
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I could cruise on $500 per month if I were 21 years old and immortal. No problem.

Alas, now that I'm old I rely on doctors, dentists and the like, and I couldn't get medical or dental insurance for $500 per month, never mind the deductibles. Only some of the costs have to do with the boat.

Of course I could give up my U.S. citizenship and become a Canadian. Then I'd get free medical care and I could cruise around Cuba, where it's cheap.
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Old 14-07-2010, 23:52   #587
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Originally Posted by goprisko View Post
Please note that your 50 ft $ 2,000,000 catamaran, with sat phone, RADAR, RIB with 45 hp outboard and console, two kayaks, two surfboards, 12 scuba tanks, a deep freezer, a fridge, wet bar, and 6 staterooms is
far more expensive to operate than the boats recommended here...

Which apparently you have failed to note...

Go to page 29 and read it and the following 6 pages... to understand what is beind discussed here...

INDY
Indy, as always, the voice of reason. And to all of my fellows on this thread we really need to keep to the conversation and the numbers about Low Cost Cruising. I am searching high and low to spend what is for me a huge sum of money for the best compromise in a boat that I can find. Once I've left my slip for open water I will be tremendously grateful to everyone who has disclosed their true costs to me through this "fraternity" on the internet. It is not news to any of you that few of us will have the opportunity in life to do just as we please. I, for one, believe that Indy's showing the numbers for a $6,000 year is what I need to know in order to make plans that will work.

Thanks for taking time to read this.

OS
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Old 15-07-2010, 02:52   #588
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Well, not to belittle Indy for his hard work and obvious experience, but donīt you think in all this that there is a risk of confusing numbers with the real world. Every boat is different and people too. Some people naturally makes friends easily and blend in with locals, getting best of free deals on fruit and veg. Some boats seem to break things a lot, other donīt. The point is that doing numbers, though very useful, is only one part of the picture, the real world is much more complicated than a spreadsheet can simulate and it can be disappointing (or satisfying) to find this out.
Iīm not really anywhere close to the $500 a month long term, I kept a detailed record for a while but relaxed and gave up and jsut tried to keep the spending down. But a glance at a bank statement shows where the money goes, busy anchorages where there are lots of businesses plying for cruisers trade and refits. People do live on low budgets, not sure I could year in year out, but thatīs why Iīm sailing back to London to work for a while, update the cruising kitty and throw a load of money at the boat. But next time will be different, longer sails then hole up in a nice anchorage for a while. Eat what the locals are eating as itīs good value and in season. (did that anyway ) Beaching legs will save a lot of haulout fees. Etc,.
But keep up the good work Indy, I hope you donīt think Iīm having a go, the posts you have made are very useful with lots of good info.
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Old 15-07-2010, 03:11   #589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OaklandSailor View Post
Indy, as always, the voice of reason. And to all of my fellows on this thread we really need to keep to the conversation and the numbers about Low Cost Cruising. I am searching high and low to spend what is for me a huge sum of money for the best compromise in a boat that I can find. Once I've left my slip for open water I will be tremendously grateful to everyone who has disclosed their true costs to me through this "fraternity" on the internet. It is not news to any of you that few of us will have the opportunity in life to do just as we please. I, for one, believe that Indy's showing the numbers for a $6,000 year is what I need to know in order to make plans that will work.

Thanks for taking time to read this.

OS
Yup... the mans got it just about right... as a 62yr old low income(Unemployable) seagoing "bum'.. scratching a life at sea as opposed to mouldering in some fleapit on shore waiting to die.. there's alot of good ideas and suggestions.
Health insurance... if you can afford that your loaded... my insurance..??
Don't break anything.. don't get sick.. and if you do.. go to the poor folks hospitals, not the fancy private clinics...
St Barts.. sliced my foot open and needed 15 stitches... treatment free.. drugs/painkillers $50...
Portugal.. broke three ribs on a crossing, arrived Portimao 3 days later and went to local Misericordia... x-ray + drugs 15euro's..
Ok.. you may have to sit for a few hours with people you would'nt like to be seen dead with... but you'd be surprised how nice they really are..
But I guess its all down to your mentality... its like expensive restaurants.. you pay a bomb.. does not mean the foods any better... just the clientelle's a bunch off pompous assholes talking golf and yachtclubs and bragging about how much their last meal cost them... usually a months budget...lmao

PS; Most 'Brit' cruisers won't associate with me.. French, Swiss, Swede's etc think I'm great fun... wonder why... don't play golf or belong to any clubs.. or because I 'Go Native'...
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Old 15-07-2010, 03:47   #590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goprisko View Post
I am well aware of how the charter game works... Basically a 5 star hotel on the water.... with cuisine, and amenities to match....

You fail to mention that your guests are paying $2,000 per week each for the experience, 30% of which goes to your broker....

You are running a hospitality business... at the high end... sort of like a Hyatt Hotel... afloat...

The typical size of yacht used for this is now nearly 50 Ft on deck, and in the USVI often 60 ft LOA, including catamarans...

BUT

This has nothing whatever to do with micro-budget cruising....

I'd say that your experience is actually counterproductive...for the purposes expounded here.

INDY
Wow speaking of counterproductive! You Assume a lot and obviously you did not read my post (even though you quoted it) -or perhaps you were not able to comprehend what I posted, I will clarify it . First Please slooow down and reread what I posted=#571- You know Indi -When I see posts with wild assumptions and made up stories it shows that your position is very weak or you would not have to rely on such nonsense! I understand you are trying to prove you are right here but I don’t think that’s what this is all about-its about being real- if you can live on
32 cans Tomatoes
32 cans mushrooms
24 cans olives
4 cans coffee
4 pkgs of 100 Tea bags or lge box of loose tea
20 cans of chicken breast
8 cans of crab
30 cans of tuna
3 bottles of peanut butter
3 bottles of jam
9 cans of peaches
3 cans of cherries
For months at a time and stay in a very limited area then maybe you and a few other folks can do it, but I think 99% of cursers want more out of life than canned tomatoes & mushrooms to live on-you might as well be in jail you will eat better and you will have free health care! How many cruiser have you seen without an engine these days?? I for one have not seen one since I was a kid-On post 581 you mention your annual budget -Entry & Clearance Fees..............$ 150 you also mention $0 for boat Insurance , no mention of fuel for the boat, I could go on and on-makes me wonder if you have really done a circumnavigation in this century- or was this more of your story telling? Dreaming and fantasying is a wonderful thing-I’ve done my share, but if this thread is meant to be some kind of guide for some young people who, have not left the dock yet and have a real time budget of around $500-1000 a month well then lets at least try to be real here- the year is 2010-not the 1960s anymore- In the Med you cannot even check in any country without vessel insurance , the Bahamas entry fee is now $150-300 , and some countries in the Med are priced about the same, and some as cheap as $50- Check in is not cheap in many countries now days, and almost all want proof of vessel insurance!

One more thing , in my previous post, I was not talking about while I’m on charter as I clearly stated, in post 571- I was talking about just me- in a 4 year old boat-with little to replace so far-(1 person) in the Med, the costs of food-fuel- insurance-CUSTOMS fees-oil changes-other routine mantince- and the occasional part replacement-is going to put me over the top x2 - I don’t believe the average sailor can make it on anywhere near $500 today- I say Average sailor-- each day your boat and you get a little older and soon enough things happen, body’s get sick, boats break and then you’re in way over your head-
But we all can dream… nothing wrong with that, as long as you can separate the dreams from reality
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Old 15-07-2010, 03:56   #591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram View Post
, but I think 99% of cursers want more out of life than canned tomatoes & mushrooms to live on-you might as well be in jail you will eat better and you will have free health care!

maybe the view and overall ambience would be less appealing?!
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Old 15-07-2010, 10:35   #592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conachair View Post
Well, not to belittle Indy for his hard work and obvious experience, but donīt you think in all this that there is a risk of confusing numbers with the real world.

Every boat is different and people too. Some people naturally makes friends easily and blend in with locals, getting best of free deals on fruit and veg. Some boats seem to break things a lot, other donīt.

The point is that doing numbers, though very useful, is only one part of the picture, the real world is much more complicated than a spreadsheet can simulate and it can be disappointing (or satisfying) to find this out.

Iīm not really anywhere close to the $500 a month long term, I kept a detailed record for a while but relaxed and gave up and jsut tried to keep the spending down. But a glance at a bank statement shows where the money goes, busy anchorages where there are lots of businesses plying for cruisers trade and refits.

People do live on low budgets, not sure I could year in year out, but thatīs why Iīm sailing back to London to work for a while, update the cruising kitty and throw a load of money at the boat. But next time will be different, longer sails then hole up in a nice anchorage for a while.

Eat what the locals are eating as itīs good value and in season. (did that anyway ) Beaching legs will save a lot of haulout fees. Etc,.
But keep up the good work Indy, I hope you donīt think Iīm having a go, the posts you have made are very useful with lots of good info.
While you bring up several points of merit, the post shows that you need to go back to page 29 and read it and the following 6 pages again.

BECAUSE.....

1. I specified that the boat a micro-budget cruiser must use is one between 28-34 ft LOA with a displacement beteeen 5-8 tons.

2. I recommended 6 boats, specifically known to me, which are classics, which sail well, and which are available for less than $25,000.

3. I specifically stated that the micro-budget cruiser must "Pay Himself First", that is he must prioritize, which means he cannot simply "cut back", he must "BUDGET",

MEANING...

He must ration his time in places with shoreside amenities.

BECAUSE...

The alternative is giving up the cruise, and going back to Chicago in Winter to shovel show to get the car out of the driveway, and commute to work....

4. I specifically stated that the micro-budget cruiser must be able to sail his vessel everwhere.. because he cannot afford an engine.

The spread sheet approach you detract, was put in place to cut out all the hyperbole... to show exactly where the money goes... and therefore.. how to control it...

INDY
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Old 15-07-2010, 10:45   #593
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Monthly Menu...

Ram quoted my monthly shopping list...

32 cans Tomatoes
32 cans mushrooms
24 cans olives
4 cans coffee
4 pkgs of 100 Tea bags or lge box of loose tea
20 cans of chicken breast
8 cans of crab
30 cans of tuna
3 bottles of peanut butter
3 bottles of jam
9 cans of peaches
3 cans of cherries

Unfortunately, he left out the flour, the pasta, the meat, and spices..

With all that, my monthly recipes are as follows:


Breakffast
Oatmeal
Baked yeast rolls with omlet
Chicken fried rice
Ham and eggs

Lunch

Borscht
Squash Apple Bisque
Cabbage soup
Cheddar Cheese Soup
Tomato soup


Dinner

Pasta al Marinara
Seafood Pasta Twists
Pasta with mushroom sauce
Polenta with Mushroom sauce
Traveling Jew
Shalimar rice pilaf
Tanjeen al Marakesh Lamb
Braised pork chops
Seafood Rice salad

and many others...

Ram only mentioned the ingredients... it is the magic of the chef which makes an exciting cuisine..

Dessert

Cherries Jubilee
Cherry Pie
Peach Pie
Chocolate Cake
Chocolate Brownies with raisins and walnuts

Living on a budget requires innovation..

INDY
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Old 15-07-2010, 10:51   #594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goprisko View Post
While you bring up several points of merit, the post shows that you need to go back to page 29 and read it and the following 6 pages again.
Sorry, but lifes too short for that.
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Old 15-07-2010, 13:29   #595
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Originally Posted by goprisko View Post
exactly where are you going to get $ 75, 000 to fund a three year cruise?
I dunno? from maybe working ashore?

I think your sense of incomes that can be available onshore are a bit out of date............not to say $75k is peanuts (well, not around here) but money ain't worth what it once was. Hell, they even sell Toyotas for that much nowadays!

........and I don't see the automatic link between a $75k cruising budget and having to get a $250k boat - although I do get the sense that many do like to max out on boat size and stretch for the purchase / refit budget and then squeeze the cruising budget - whereas to me it would make more sense to do vice verce.

Quote:
I can tell you from personal experience... that if you lose your job after age 55 and you are a professional, you'd better be entrepreneural.. and successful at forming and running a company.. or you will be unemployed for a very, very long time..
Not been there yet on the age thing (and like you say, no guarantee I ever will), but no reason to wait until over 55 to go down the entrepreneural route and no prior experiance (or qualifications) neccessary, at least not to start. Of course both Punters and Bosses have their downsides and each can send you insane , but at least with Punters no one notices if you shoot a few now and again Working for yourself also means the money in has unlimited potential even if usually in reality not especially if you decide to trade cash for time............whether afloat or ashore.

IMO important to keep at least some capability on the earning front - some people can become truly unemployable / incapable of earning for themselves at any age after extended time away from the economic world........

Living on a minimal budget is always better when..........their are choices involved. FWIW, if I ever leave the dock being on a minimal budget will be part of the challenge in seeing how sustainable I can be (and something I will enjoy the challenge of - and do already) - but earning some money will also be a fundamental part of it, to keep both the beer fund topped up and the brain ticking over
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Old 15-07-2010, 14:11   #596
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I don't even want to know how much we've spent per month on food since we moved aboard! I did not provision as well as I should have, and just try to find reasonably priced food within dinghy/walking distance of your anchorage!
I'm even doing some of my own baking; banana bread from scratch, biscuits, etc...
I recently found out that there are some places that will can your food for you in little tins! You provide the food, prepare it, and then they can it. I'm going to be checking into this. It's a great idea for those without refrigeration.
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Old 15-07-2010, 16:35   #597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post


Yup... the mans got it just about right... as a 62yr old low income(Unemployable) seagoing "bum'.. scratching a life at sea as opposed to mouldering in some fleapit on shore waiting to die.. there's alot of good ideas and suggestions.
Health insurance... if you can afford that your loaded... my insurance..??
Don't break anything.. don't get sick.. and if you do.. go to the poor folks hospitals, not the fancy private clinics...
St Barts.. sliced my foot open and needed 15 stitches... treatment free.. drugs/painkillers $50...
Portugal.. broke three ribs on a crossing, arrived Portimao 3 days later and went to local Misericordia... x-ray + drugs 15euro's..
Ok.. you may have to sit for a few hours with people you would'nt like to be seen dead with... but you'd be surprised how nice they really are..
But I guess its all down to your mentality... its like expensive restaurants.. you pay a bomb.. does not mean the foods any better... just the clientelle's a bunch off pompous assholes talking golf and yachtclubs and bragging about how much their last meal cost them... usually a months budget...lmao

PS; Most 'Brit' cruisers won't associate with me.. French, Swiss, Swede's etc think I'm great fun... wonder why... don't play golf or belong to any clubs.. or because I 'Go Native'...
I'm with you, I'd rather go native then hang around with people perpetuating their delusional view of how life should be.. I'd rather just be happy, relaxed and stress free, if possible.. Again, each version of everyone's happiness is relevant to their own perceptions......LOL
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Old 15-07-2010, 17:21   #598
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You are aware, aren't you, that university educated individuals are able to keep their jobs better than those with lesser education, but if they lose them after age 45.. they are less likely to be able to replace them, than anyone else...

AND

I can tell you from personal experience... that if you lose your job after age 55 and you are a professional,
INDY
That is a MAJOR inhibitor to developing street smarts.
The poor souls who have fallen into the trap of Profession Pride have stuffed their economic survival instincts.

Of course there are exceptions, but so often you find professionals who just cannot stoop to do something they feel is beneath them, and so stay trapped and miserable for a long time, rather than be free, maybe at the cost of doing something menial, temporarily...
poor suckers...

They often start their comments with... As a professional...

Incidentally, I'm not anti professionals, I wouldn't want an amateur taking out my appendics, or educating my kids, or designing my boat for that matter...
It's just an observation that people who are so smart in one area often let it rob them of their ability to just be real survivors...
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Old 15-07-2010, 18:25   #599
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That is a MAJOR inhibitor to developing street smarts.
The poor souls who have fallen into the trap of Profession Pride have stuffed their economic survival instincts.

Of course there are exceptions, but so often you find professionals who just cannot stoop to do something they feel is beneath them, and so stay trapped and miserable for a long time, rather than be free, maybe at the cost of doing something menial, temporarily...
poor suckers...

They often start their comments with... As a professional...

Incidentally, I'm not anti professionals, I wouldn't want an amateur taking out my appendics, or educating my kids, or designing my boat for that matter...
It's just an observation that people who are so smart in one area often let it rob them of their ability to just be real survivors...
An excellent point. It reminds me of the saying ..."specialization is for insects".

I don't mind saying that since I am/was one of those "professionals".
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Old 15-07-2010, 21:22   #600
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Two Chicken leg quarters. Requires fresh or refrigeration.
Place in microwave cooking bowl. Cook through. Remove from the juices, and add water to juices to round out to about 3.5 cups. Add two cups of rice and spices of choice. 15 minutes in the microwave and the rice is almost perfect. Place the leg quarters on top of the rice and use broiler to brown the chicken on top of the rice, heating the rice through, and steaming the spices into the chicken.
Two cups of rice, some water, and meat of choice. Do it right, and you eat well.
Side issue. ALL MICROWAVES SHOULD HAVE A BROILER BUILT IN LIKE MY LATEST ONE!
2 cups of rice, meat of choice stripped or cubed. Left over roast works very well. Cook rice in the microwave as already described. Allow to cool. Put a chopped onion, a cup of broccoli florets, and half a cup of frozen fresh peas, in a skillet with a couple of spoons of a clean tasting olive oil and about the same of sesame oil. The Sesame oil is the "Wok" taste in fried rice. Cook until florets are just past crunchy, the peas are heated, and the onions are soft. Scrape the rice off with a spoon slowly over the mix to avoid any clumping in the cold rice as you add it. Stir non-stop until finished. When it starts to stick, dose the whole pan with a good shot of soy sauce. Stir in well, kill the heat, and set out sprouts for those that want them.
Once you get this one down, it can be made as I describe, or in many different combination's. Those of you already out there will know the readily available ingredients. You might not want to share it with too many people though! You will have boats around you trying to order fried rice!
If you price the ingredients in those two dishes, prepared in plenty for two now and later snacks/leftovers, food need not be that much of an expense.
This thread got me to start experimenting with cheap dishes for two on a boat!
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