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Old 08-07-2010, 14:33   #571
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Originally Posted by svrodeorm View Post
Back there again, huh? For starters we do not have refrigeration on board. A cold one could be nice at times, but I have never been able to see the point with a tiny fridge in a boat....unless you're staying put in a marina.

As said before in this thread, you need a smallish boat and you need to keep it simple. Furhtermore you need to have the necessary skills to maintain and repair everything you carry onboard. At least to a reasonable level. For me, that means everyting from rewiring the boat, to doing fibreglass work (or welding on a metal hull) and changing the engine.... if you have one that is.

I read you are inte charter, and for me that is something completely different, esp. since your guests expect AND are willing to pay for all the conveniences you could provide on board, right?
When I have a charter,the costs are out the window, $500+ a week just in food,im not talking about that, Im talking about by myself in Europe-about $1000-1200 a month, for food, fuels for the stove, Gen,dink,ect-, customs, and oil changes , simple things-no marina fess- I can and do all work myself by the way,and my fridge is a wonderful thing,big enough for me to get in if it was empty- your right those small ones are almost useless-I save money by having a nice fridge, as im able to keep food longer and fresher when you come across those good deals in the market or from farmers- yes you can survive on less then $500 a month for a limited time, but can you really live year in and year out on $500 a month I would say no way, and not in Europe thats for sure, not for long because like I mentioned before things break , people sometimes have accedents or get sick and then theres goes the budget--you have only been out barely 1 year, wait a few more years and you will understand it costs a lot more than $500 a month to live if you count all your expenses- I spend more than that on food, and I dont eat out hardly at all-

-I have a friend who has plenty of money, worth millions but guess what- he gets about half his food out of dumpsters behind supermarkets, he drives a moped it gets 150mpg and he lives in a dump, yet he has all the money in the world- I have to say hes happy- so if your happy how your living keep on doing it for as long as you can, I wish you good luck at it!
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Old 08-07-2010, 14:59   #572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram View Post
When I have a charter,the costs are out the window, $500+ a week just in food,im not talking about that, Im talking about by myself in Europe-about $1000-1200 a month, for food, fuels for the stove, Gen,dink,ect-, customs, and oil changes , simple things-no marina fess- I can and do all work myself by the way,and my fridge is a wonderful thing,big enough for me to get in if it was empty- your right those small ones are almost useless-I save money by having a nice fridge, as im able to keep food longer and fresher when you come across those good deals in the market or from farmers- yes you can survive on less then $500 a month for a limited time, but can you really live year in and year out on $500 a month I would say no way, and not in Europe thats for sure, not for long because like I mentioned before things break , people sometimes have accedents or get sick and then theres goes the budget--you have only been out barely 1 year, wait a few more years and you will understand it costs a lot more than $500 a month to live if you count all your expenses- I spend more than that on food, and I dont eat out hardly at all-

-I have a friend who has plenty of money, worth millions but guess what- he gets about half his food out of dumpsters behind supermarkets, he drives a moped it gets 150mpg and he lives in a dump, yet he has all the money in the world- I have to say hes happy- so if your happy how your living keep on doing it for as long as you can, I wish you good luck at it!
Thanks for the friendly laugh, what you say is probably correct for you, and as you point out with your friend, we are all different - so- I wish you the same, brother.

I just have to add that we are not considering ourselves as living frugally, on the contrary, we are enjoying a wonderful and enriching life. We're just a wee bit careful with our spending and want value for our money.

Our monthly food cost for two, currently in Portugal, are around €200 incl. at least one meal at a restaurant, and we are not trying to keep it down as such. We cook, yes cook, ourselves though, as opposed to heating the 'industrial' stuff they sell in the stores. Not to save money foremost, but because we know how to cook, and appreciate really good food as the perhaps most important part of a quality life-style.

BTW, this cruise might be 'barely a year' by now, but the lifestyle is nothing new to us. On land and at sea, we tend to live pretty much the same way, it's just so much easier and cheaper on a boat.
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Old 09-07-2010, 04:59   #573
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You ever get the feeling reading this thread that if you are not supporting the $500/mo that somehow you are a bad person or doing bad things (to yourself or the enviorment etc)?
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Old 09-07-2010, 06:17   #574
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You ever get the feeling reading this thread that if you are not supporting the $500/mo that somehow you are a bad person or doing bad things (to yourself or the enviorment etc)?
no--but I do find it hard to beleave that anyone in any boat can cruise on $500 a month year in and year out-
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Old 09-07-2010, 07:56   #575
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Quote:
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You ever get the feeling reading this thread that if you are not supporting the $500/mo that somehow you are a bad person or doing bad things (to yourself or the enviorment etc)?
Occasionally from a few posters, but then you can find the corrollary sentiments on the Cruising on $5,000 / Month thread.

Read both and it kind of evens out.
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Old 10-07-2010, 10:59   #576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
You ever get the feeling reading this thread that if you are not supporting the $500/mo that somehow you are a bad person or doing bad things (to yourself or the enviorment etc)?

Really? Maybe you've got a point there, but what about the other 98% (?) that spend their days bragging about the latest gadget they just bought or how much they spent at this and that yard for a haul-out or repair?

Don't we all agree that the main-stream population in the western hemisphere all are into the religion of consumerism?!

I.e. the more you spend the more successful you are.

In my case it has been, for most of my life, about how little you need to work, if you use your talents, and work smart, to sustain a healthy, but low-budget life-style which also provides you with the time to spend on whatever is your choice. May it be cruising or collecting stamps.

I'm not saying it's for everyone to cruise on 500 USD/month, but it could be for anyone. It's a choice, a choice one does deliberately to gain whatever it is one wants from life.

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Old 10-07-2010, 12:33   #577
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To me 25 - 35 K per year seems to be a reasonable amount for a 35-40 ft boat. It allows for maintenance and upgrades plus there is money to have some fun and splurge every now and then.
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Old 10-07-2010, 20:40   #578
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I was under the impression that this thread is more about how can someone go cruising on the minimal budget possible. The arbitrary $500/mo like the arbitrary $5K/mo. are just numbers picked out to emphasize that there are folks out cruising in the "naturalist" style where the enjoyment is in nature and not manufactured convenience products. Some folks just don't need all "that stuff" that others do need to be comfortable. So rather than saying how it can't be done I would think this thread is about how to successfully go cruising as a "minimalist."
- - The other thread is for people who have grown accustomed to the more comforts afforded by modern technology and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that since the whole idea of going cruising is to enjoy the experience.
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:08   #579
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Well said (#578), osirissail.
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Old 12-07-2010, 03:37   #580
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No way I'd do a delivery for $500/mth.....

Got to Almerimar in the 40yr old Catalac Delivery to Turkey... so far so good despite a nightmare off Trafalgar/Tarifa... 1500 or so miles to go...
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Old 14-07-2010, 13:54   #581
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The Cruising Budget Revisited....

Quote:
Originally Posted by svrodeorm View Post
Just want to thank Goprisko for starting this very educative thread.

And yes you Naysayers, it's not only doable it's a great life! We have been out for over a year and could easily cruise on such a budget. In Europe! Yes, that's true, you read that right.

We are not quite there though, simply because we don't have to, ....
But if we had to, no problem at all.

A someone said, the minimum salary in Portugal- for instance- is 450 euro

So it's obviously possible to live in relative luxury on a smaller/simpler type boat compared to those who raise a family on that amount on land......
We do notice(sic) that 'richer kinda folks in bigger kinda boats' tend to socialize less with locals, tend to worry much more about piracy, theft and so on, and obviously spend more time in expensive, and deadly boring marinas as opposed to at anchor, and also spend a lot more time in said marinas waiting for repairs and spare parts...this is so evident all over the place that I cannot comprehend that not everyone sees it.

In 13 months we spent less than 15 nights in marinas, and that includes the English channel and the North sea.

IN a third world country 500 USD is a LOT of money, if you eat locally produced food which is a good idea for all kinds of reasons anyway.
I'd like to revisit several issues brought up by this person...

first of all if you are new to this thread and want to quickly learn the details of cruising on a micro-budget go to page 29 and read that and the following 6 pages.

Second, Please examine the following proforma budget...
Our annual cruising budget now is:
Maintenance and Repair..............$ 970
Provisions.................................$ 2,400 ( diet high in legumes, all meals cooked aboard)
Entry & Clearance Fees..............$ 150
Fuel.............................................$ 100 ( LPG for galley stove )
Mooring & Marina Fees..............$ -0-
Communication...........................$ 200
Excursions/ Entertainment............$ 800
Navigation..................................$ 700
Insurance, Boat .........................$ -0-
Insurance Health.........................$ 240 (money put in rainy day fund)
Souvenirs...................................$ 150
Clothing and Sundries................$ 290

TOTAL...................................$ 6,000

Third, note that the Navigation Bucket includes charts, Pilots, cruising guides, depreciation on navigational instruments, and can be reallocated to customs and entry fees or other uses, if the voyage permits. Note also, that a 3 year circumnavigation will increase Navigation Expense to about $2,000 per year, due to the large number of charts, pilots, and pubs required. Note also that the US Sailing Directions, Light Lists, and other Pubs are now available online from the Government Website, at no charge.

This means that there is no reason whatever for any
voyager, micro-budget or not, to avoid having these pubs and the knowledge they entail.

Also, please note that this budget is organized for a boat between 5-8 Tons displacement, or 28-34 Ft LOA, with NO ENGINE.

Elsewhere, I estimated the cost of running an engine, and recommended the micro-budget cruiser install an aircooled Farymann Engine in the appropriate series, 15, 18,. or 43, with a spring starter, so no electrics are required., and a dry exhaust so no seacocks, or water pumps, or zinc anodes, or inlet strainers, are required., and keep his cruising speed under power to 0.8 * SQRT( LWL [in feet])


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Old 14-07-2010, 13:59   #582
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Minimalist = Micro Budget

Quote:
Originally Posted by osirissail View Post
I was under the impression that this thread is more about how can someone go cruising on the minimal budget possible. The arbitrary $500/mo like the arbitrary $5K/mo. are just numbers picked out to emphasize that there are folks out cruising in the "naturalist" style where the enjoyment is in nature and not manufactured convenience products. Some folks just don't need all "that stuff" that others do need to be comfortable. So rather than saying how it can't be done I would think this thread is about how to successfully go cruising as a "minimalist."
- - The other thread is for people who have grown accustomed to the more comforts afforded by modern technology and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that since the whole idea of going cruising is to enjoy the experience.
Thank You Very Much... You have GOT IT !!!

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Old 14-07-2010, 14:08   #583
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You can always spend more...

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To me 25 - 35 K per year seems to be a reasonable amount for a 35-40 ft boat. It allows for maintenance and upgrades plus there is money to have some fun and splurge every now and then.
I have no issues with YOU SPENDING AS MUCH AS YOU WANT....

BUT...

Why trouble us??

This thread is about MICRO - BUDGET CRUISING...

AND

How to go about it...

FOR

Those who either must do so, or those who wish to do so...

Now... exactly where are you going to get $ 75, 000 to fund a three year cruise?

AND....

Exactly where are you going to get the $ 250,000 for the typical 38-45 ft boat cruising on such a sum???

AND

If you mention that you will work til you are DEAD or RETIRED... have you checked in with the Almighty... and has he assured you that your health will continue unimpaired until that long delayed date?

AND

You are aware, aren't you, that university educated individuals are able to keep their jobs better than those with lesser education, but if they lose them after age 45.. they are less likely to be able to replace them, than anyone else...

AND

I can tell you from personal experience... that if you lose your job after age 55 and you are a professional, you'd better be entrepreneural.. and successful at forming and running a company.. or you will be unemployed for a very, very long time..

AND

If you have any thoughts regarding emigrating away from the USA,,, you'd better know that the cutoff age for most of those like NZ and AUZ is 45... after that you'd better be a successful entrepreneur... or financially independent....

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Old 14-07-2010, 14:16   #584
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Chartering

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram View Post
When I have a charter,the costs are out the window, $500+ a week just in food,im not talking about that, Im talking about by myself in Europe-about $1000-1200 a month, for food, fuels for the stove, Gen,dink,ect-, customs, and oil changes , simple things-no marina fess- I can and do all work myself by the way,and my fridge is a wonderful thing,big enough for me to get in if it was empty- your right those small ones are almost useless-I save money by having a nice fridge, as im able to keep food longer and fresher when you come across those good deals in the market or from farmers- yes you can survive on less then $500 a month for a limited time, but can you really live year in and year out on $500 a month I would say no way, and not in Europe thats for sure, not for long because like I mentioned before things break , people sometimes have accedents or get sick and then theres goes the budget--you have only been out barely 1 year, wait a few more years and you will understand it costs a lot more than $500 a month to live if you count all your expenses- I spend more than that on food, and I dont eat out hardly at all-

-!
I am well aware of how the charter game works... Basically a 5 star hotel on the water.... with cuisine, and amenities to match....

You fail to mention that your guests are paying $2,000 per week each for the experience, 30% of which goes to your broker....

You are running a hospitality business... at the high end... sort of like a Hyatt Hotel... afloat...

The typical size of yacht used for this is now nearly 50 Ft on deck, and in the USVI often 60 ft LOA, including catamarans...

BUT

This has nothing whatever to do with micro-budget cruising....

I'd say that your experience is actually counterproductive...for the purposes expounded here.

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Old 14-07-2010, 14:23   #585
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Chartering....

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I suppose one could live on $500 a month ifffffffff there were no break downs or parts that needed to be replaced and you stayed mostly in countrys where things were very cheap-and you did not need to phone home or fly home or run your engines much- and of course we all know that this could not last long because things that get used break or wear out and there goes the budget!
My boats was less than 4 years old and the Fridge is broke-ive replaced 2 raw water pumps and oil is $10 a quart in the Med and fuel is $8-10 a gal- im very frugal but about $1200 a month seems like the best I could do-
Please note that your 50 ft $ 2,000,000 catamaran, with sat phone, RADAR, RIB with 45 hp outboard and console, two kayaks, two surfboards, 12 scuba tanks, a deep freezer, a fridge, wet bar, and 6 staterooms is
far more expensive to operate than the boats recommended here...

Which apparently you have failed to note...

Go to page 29 and read it and the following 6 pages... to understand what is beind discussed here...

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