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Old 15-06-2010, 11:40   #511
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Originally Posted by goprisko View Post
On the voyage from St. Helena to Acension, we had too many fish, and no ice left in the box, so we explored drying fish.

The recipe we have recommends salting the fish first...
Basically, you put the filets on a bed of salt, and cover them with salt.

The fish absorbs the salt and toughens.

After a day or two, when it is sufficiently tough, put it on a string to dry in the sun..

At sea there are no flies, so you don't need to cover the fish, just bring them in before sunset, so they don't absorb moisture during the night.

Once they are rock hard, they are dry. and you can store them in a bag

INDY


Awesome!,
do you want to slice the fillets in to thinner pieces, a al beef jerky, before drying?
and what is the preferred method of eating said rock hard dry fish, add it to stews? put it on a bagel and schmear, or just naw on it caveman style?
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Old 15-06-2010, 11:49   #512
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Your First Boat....

Your first boat, the one you learn to sail in should be a dinghy. For many reasons I recommended the Rhodes 19, Snipe, or Lightning. Certainly there are other dinghies of merit.

The reasons are as follows:

1. Learning in a responsive boat like a dinghy is faster because any experimenting you do elicits an immediate response from the boat, and the boat thus becomes your teacher.

2. Choosing a boat with a large following, ie: produced in large numbers, used over a wide area, supported by a class association, provides you with the following:
a. many boats to choose from,
b. easily available information regarding price,
c. a ready market when you choose to sell,
d. opportunities to meet folks with similar interests at regattas
e. symposia and classes geared to the novice where you can meet and learn how to sail from experts, on the water !
f. a ready supply of parts and accessories to improve the boat

3. The dinghies I mentioned, are large enough to take you and your kit on cruises as long as several weeks, so you can experience cruising first hand.

4. The dinghies I mentioned are simple enough to rig in a short time at the boat ramp, and to take down after your cruise, so you leave the boat at home between uses, saving money.

5. You can practice every maneuver necessary for the management of your cruising boat.... sailing on and off moorings, anchoring, weighing anchor under sail, sailing up to docks, into slips, tacking, reaching, downwind sailing,... everything..

AND...

If you make a mistake, the cost of your error will be small... little nicks and dings will putty over... running into the dock may produce a few splinters, but the boat is light enough, that you don't do major damage to anything as you bumble through your first steps...

6. These boats are big enough to cope with jetski wakes... and the Lightining will give the jetskis a run for their money.. downwind or reaching in a breeze.. because it will get up and go!

7. If you decide that cruisng is not for you, fine... then sell the boat and pursue another avocation... or perhaps you will enjoy dinghy racing instead.. nothing wrong with that... Susan Hiscock reverted to it after Eric died.. she sold Wanderer V, returned to the Isle of Wight, bought a house, and a dinghy and tore up the race course at regattas.

INDY
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Old 15-06-2010, 11:55   #513
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Drying Fish

Generally the fish is beheaded, split up the backbone, backbone is removed. If the filets are too large for your tray, (the salt must be put into a tray) then you must trim them to fit, other wise use the sides whole.

The fish will absorb quite a lot of salt. this preserves them, but is a problem at cooking time. You must plan on soaking the cured fish in fresh water, actually several rinses of fresh water to remove the excess salt, BEFORE using the fish in soups and stews.

It doesn't do well in the skillet.. too salty...

INDY
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Old 15-06-2010, 11:56   #514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
In nearly 40 years of living aboard and cruising, almost full time for the last 35 years, I've never had nor felt the need for a fridge. I had an icebox on my last boat, and used it only once or twice in ten years.
Learn to can and dry food. Far cheaper, simpler, and you can carry a year or two's supply aboard in little space.
I love this idea.
Canning, no problem with the pressure cooker aboard anyway. Still working on how to store the jars without breakage or annoying constant rattling though.
As for drying, do you carry one of the dehydrators aboard? We have a dehydrator in the kitchen here, but not sure how well it would translate to boat life. Are these common, or do people just go solar?
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Old 15-06-2010, 14:38   #515
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I wish I could repair the boat I have!
Needs to have the keel strip, trunk, and step removed. About a 24 inch strip of aluminum needs to be replaced,and then the trunk/step/keelstrip reinstalled. There are four rows of rivets that would have to be drilled from inside into the new metal, that need to be replaced once everything else is done.
The repair is beyond my skills and certainly beyond any technique I know of that my tools would allow.
I apologize, as we are very far off the topic.

Here, there is a Dockuminium type marina nearby, with residents owning their slips, and paying a monthly dues/upkeep fee. Air conditioned club house and facilities.
Living on a boat would cost me the one time 5500$ for the slip, the monthly fee, electric, and whatever the boat required, after I owned the boat. Several clubs/organizations based off the Alton pool for the learning resources part, if I ever get that far.
I am not sure you could exist here for 500$ a month, but you could give it a swing, before you jumped off shore.
Easier than off shore if you had a way to keep things frozen, as here, along with fishing, venison is plentiful and available for a little effort, 4 months out of the year. 200 pounds of venison, 6 turkeys, fish, and small game answer the needs of more than one family I know, for most of the year.
Never been on a sailboat with a freezer that would hold very much.
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Old 15-06-2010, 15:00   #516
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$500 a month would be sweet, this is kind of my wifes and mine's retirement plan, but not sure how much we would need saved after buoying a large boat to live on....also, a little worried about weather.
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Old 16-06-2010, 15:16   #517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariness View Post
I love this idea.
Canning, no problem with the pressure cooker aboard anyway. Still working on how to store the jars without breakage or annoying constant rattling though.
As for drying, do you carry one of the dehydrators aboard? We have a dehydrator in the kitchen here, but not sure how well it would translate to boat life. Are these common, or do people just go solar?
We dry things... hamburger for instance.. in the oven...

Am afraid I like my beer cold... so we installed an ENGEL fridge...

But, if you can do without refrigeration it will save you about $ 150 per year over the fridge.

INDY
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Old 16-06-2010, 15:19   #518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahnlaashock View Post
I wish I could repair the boat I have!
Needs to have the keel strip, trunk, and step removed. About a 24 inch strip of aluminum needs to be replaced,and then the trunk/step/keelstrip reinstalled. There are four rows of rivets that would have to be drilled from inside into the new metal, that need to be replaced once everything else is done.
The repair is beyond my skills and certainly beyond any technique I know of that my tools would allow.
I apologize, as we are very far off the topic.

Here, there is a Dockuminium type marina nearby, with residents owning their slips, and paying a monthly dues/upkeep fee. Air conditioned club house and facilities.
Living on a boat would cost me the one time 5500$ for the slip, the monthly fee, electric, and whatever the boat required, after I owned the boat. Several clubs/organizations based off the Alton pool for the learning resources part, if I ever get that far.
I am not sure you could exist here for 500$ a month, but you could give it a swing, before you jumped off shore.
Easier than off shore if you had a way to keep things frozen, as here, along with fishing, venison is plentiful and available for a little effort, 4 months out of the year. 200 pounds of venison, 6 turkeys, fish, and small game answer the needs of more than one family I know, for most of the year.
Never been on a sailboat with a freezer that would hold very much.
Exactly what kind of boat is it? Is it of aluminum construction?

Why don't you find a dinghy in reasonable shape and go sailing in it this summer..

Then... spend the winter.... given you know how to sail... and have an idea of the characteristics required in your next boat... looking for a boat in good condition?
Plan on buying it just before Christmas...

INDY
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Old 16-06-2010, 15:41   #519
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Building your dream boat....

Before I proceed into this topic, a few words of caution are in order...

Only 10% of all amateur boat building projects are ever completed by the originator

Only 10% of all completed projects are sailed to any degree by the completor

Only 1 % of all completed and sailed projects circumnavigate.

This means that I, the Pardeys, Slocum, Guzzwell, George Day, and a few others are the 1 in 10,000 long shot winners.

How did we do it?

1. Your project must last no more than 3 years... because it is very difficult to maintain momentum on longer projects.

2. You must have a clear need that can only be satisfied by building

3. You must have sufficient skills

4. You must have a place to do the work which is adjacent to where you live.

5. You must have suppliers willing to sell to you at wholesale.

6. Your schedule must have sufficient slack to permit you spending 20-40 hours / week on the project

Earlier, I posted the sail plan for the Falmouth 30 cutter. That boat is a 5,000 hour project. Ie: full time employment for one person for 2 1/2 years !

Most home builders make the mistake of building too large a boat. For example, projects in the 40 ft range are 7000-8000 hours. Pegasus at 45 ft and 25 tons was 9,000 hours, and construction of Pegasus went forward in a very methodical and organized fashion, such that nothing needed redoing.

That said... of all the materials... carvel planked, cold moulded, GRP, steel, and aluminum, which is best?

In my mind, if you want a GRP boat you are best off purchasing a hull and deck and finishing it yourself from there. But this will not be a cheap enterprise...

Should you choose to build the hull, I am of the opinion that aluminum wins hands down... A 30 ft boat like the SC 31 will require 3,000# of aluminum, costing about $6,000, including a 500# scrap allowance.

Because:
The timber for carvel planked construction is exceeding difficult to find... I know of only one mill that supplies white oak keel timbers suiltable for a 30 ft hull, if they are still in business. Mr. White knows every oak tree in northern Indiana and SW Michigan. He has an inventory of "keel trees", which he only cuts for boat keels.

Cold Moulded construction requires many hours working with epoxies... If you are sensitized, as one friend was, best hope your wife isn't and thinks enough of the project to finish it for you.

Steel, is not a savngs over aluminum, and the finished boat requires too much maintenance.

Regardless, no novice sailor should design his own boat... period..!

INDY
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Old 16-06-2010, 15:51   #520
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Engines....

Earlier, I analyzed the costs of having an engine aboard. That analysis assumed
diesel was selling for $1 per Liter.

Yesterday, I found an analysis from Lloyds of London & Chatham House, which
forecasts crude oil prices greater than $ 200 / bbl in 2013. If this is so, Diesel will cost $ 2 per Liter by then..

What effect will this have on costs?
ENGINE CALCULATIONS
Water_Line_Length___25 ft
Displacement__13,500 lb__6_Tons
Boat_Speed_knots_____________4.00_______5.00______ __7.53
Speed_-_Length_Ratio_%______80.00%____100.00%_____150.50%
Resistance_/_ton_lb_____________6_________10__________47
Resistance____lb_______________42________70_______ __330.
Engine__hp_________________1.21______1.53________12.64
rpm__________________________738._____1096._______ _2200
Fuel_Consumption_gm/hp-hr______220______205_________190
L/hr__________________________0.29_____0.35_________ _2.67
Fuel_Cost at $2/L-hr_______$0.58____$0.70_______$5.34
Hourly_Operating_Cost______$0.80____$0.80_______$0 .80
TOTALOPERATING_COST _$1.38__$1.50____$6.14


Given, you budget 200 / year for engine expense, and you use the engine only
in calms and powering into or out of tight situations...



You can use the engine 130 hours per year or about 2 1/2 hours / week at $ 2/L for diesel. IF YOU KEEP THE SPEED DOWN !!!



INDy


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Old 16-06-2010, 16:04   #521
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Dockominiums..... vs...... Boat Clubs....

Seems that the reason boat clubs were invented has been lost...

Boat clubs were invented to divide the expense of maintaining waterside facilities across the membership, so each member only paid a small portion of the whole.

Many clubs are run and maintained by the members who essentially donate their skills and time to keep the club going, this lowers expense.

Many clubs have an inventory of boats, generally optimist prams and dinghies that members can use, or rent from the club.

Before you invest in a dockominium, I'd suggest you check out the local clubs.

Anlasshock, you are definitely not getting the message... you don't know beans about sailing... your repair skills are limited... you are traveling at the speed of light and headlong into purchasing a large boat that will intimidate you, because you don't know beans about how to run or maintain it. If you do take it anywhere, the enterprise will either be very expensive, or a disaster, or both.

You are doing your level best to turn your cruising dream into a nightmare.

Stop what you are doing. stop looking at the floating condos.. go to the nearest Yacht Club with an active sailing program, take sailing lessons, buy a dinghy in good condition, and sail the pants off it!!!

INDY
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Old 17-06-2010, 00:04   #522
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You are right I know nothing except book facts for the most part.
You are right that a dinghy is the correct answer for this year, with a couple of small caveats anyway.
I can sail dinghies just fine, and actually draw embarrassing compliments when I do, because folks think I know what I am doing. I don't have any racing experience, mainly because racing is of no interest to me. The smaller tippy little boats get boring very quickly, although I will admit that a Sunfish in good wind can be a lot of fun for a few hours. Anchoring, provisioning, and a host of other things I know nothing about, like bad or dangerous weather sailing.

There is no plate on my boat to use to identify it. It is a hard chine, 15.5 foot, large open cockpit, fractional rigged sloop with canvas sails. I have modern sails to replace the canvas ones. The boat has enclosed flotation chambers front and rear. It has a relatively high freeboard on the sides, and a tarp coaming type surround on the cockpit. Not quite as much sail as a comet, but about the same size. There are no pictures online today.
The boat is supposedly from the Chesapeake Bay Museum auction, and was supposedly built in the 40's or 50's. It is almost one hundred percent aluminum, to include the rudder and the centerboard. Very large centerboard.
The boat uses a wooden drop in floor, but has no seating at all.
The original rectangular wooden mast has been replaced with a keel stepped aluminum mast that has a wooden spacer to fit onto into the deck to make it match the original hole. The mast is right at 20 feet, and the boom is 11, if I am remembering correctly. Bolt rope on the mast, and clips on a rail for the foot.

The boat apparently sat in the water for a very long time. The pitting that is a problem could be welded, but that is not the problem. The problem is corrosion and corruption under the keel strip. The material under the strip is corroded and brittle, with you actually being able to hear stuff breaking if pressure is applied. The corrosion also has holes in the centerboard trunk.
There are four aluminum channels inside the boat that would be involved in the repair with a rivet every inch or so. There are about 500 hundred rivets, the keel strip, the mast step, and the trunk that would have to be removed. About a 24 inch strip of aluminum would have to be welded down both sides to replace the bad metal, the trunk would have to be put back in, and about 700 rivets replaced running through four channels inside the boat. The holes would still be there to drill and locate the holes because of the channels inside the boat.
I could tear it all apart, and get the metal needed to fix it, but the welding and materials cost would make it an expensive dinghy when I got done.
Maybe this will make sense to you guys. I want that boat. I was happier scraping paint on it than I was sailing most others I have been on. I had already purchased the fabric to make a boom tent, with plans to do much as you have described, only without the racing and heavy club involvement.
I am disabled with very little money, and am under no delusion that I can afford to race anything. The club I went to visit was a small friendly sea scout/family type club. They are about 60 miles away on the Alton pool, but not too bad of a drive.
My purpose is to be able to spend multiple days on the water in camping mode, on lakes more known for fishing than for sailing. Council Bluffs and such places. Alone for the most part. At least for now. The aluminum boat was the perfect answer for that.

That is why the older aluminum boat is so attractive. I put it on a trailer upside down, removed it and put it in the water, by myself. When the horrible leak was discovered, I put it back on the trailer by hand, alone.
Thanks for your time, and don't think I am not listening, because I am.
My trips into dreaming about a larger boat right now are centered around my wife, who has no interest in the smaller boats at all.
I am not considering buying the marina slip/membership in any serious fashion. We were discussing cruising on 500$ a month. "Cruising" around here, without making long drives every time you want to sit in the boat, is pretty much the Alton pool or one of the lakes.
Sorry so long, but we seemed to be talking around each other a little there.
I need to take the old boat and cash it in for the aluminum to get it out of the yard, and so that I stop comparing other boats to it.
Have a beautiful day!
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Old 17-06-2010, 11:09   #523
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Your Riveted Dinghy....

It is very likely that you cannot repair your dinghy with welding...

Had the dink been made of 5000 series aluminum, I doubt you'd have the severe corrosion you describe. It was either made of 2000 series aluminum(ok for freshwater) or 6000 series aluminum(ok for salt, if not left in the water).

The dink is toast. It will be much cheaper for you to buy plans for a Snipe ($20) and build one from scratch, or.. get a frame and fastening kit from ClarkCraft for $550 at

file:///E:/PegasusAndSailing/Plans/Classic/SnipePlans&Kit.htm

and build one yourself. The Snipe weighs about 380# standard weight. it is easy to load onto a standard boat trailer, even easier if the trailer is articulated. You don't have to turtle it, have a fitted cover made with bows of pultruded batten material every meter or so, use the tarpaulin material truckers use for their tarps, lasts a long time and is moderate in cost.

The Snipe has sufficient payload for singlehanded cruises up to several weeks. If your plans are for doublehanded cruises, better look at a dinghy in the 19 ft class like the Rhodes or the Lightning..

If you really can sail and want a trailerable boat for the impoundments nearby there is another alternative see:

Clark Craft Boat Plans and Kits

Then there is the Cal 20.. lots of these around..

Cal 20 Class Association > Photos

The Harpoon 6.2 by Boston Whaler..

Boston Whaler Harpoon 6.2

The Kittwake 23, a classic in this size...$ 3-6K

Kittiwake 23 Sailboat Registry Web Page
Kittiwake 23 For Sale Page

The Merit 25, a modern design ..

Merit 25 Home Page

The San Juan 21...

http://sanjuan21.net/national/MarkIImanual.pdf

The Sea Sprite... another classic in this size...Avaiable for $3K - 15K.

Sea Sprite Association
1959 Sea Sprite 23' Weekender sailboat for sale in Maine

Regarding Shipping... I found this webpage..

Cost to Ship - Albert Sea Sprite 23 foot keel sailboat - from Norwalk to Deer Isle




INDY
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Old 17-06-2010, 11:31   #524
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Budgets Revisited......

Our annual cruising budget now is:
Maintenance and Repair_____________$ 970
Provisions_________________________$ 2,400 ( all meals cooked aboard)
Entry & Clearance Fees______________$ 150
Fuel______________________________$ 100 ( LPG for galley stove )
Mooring & Marina Fees______________$ -0-
Communication ____________________$ 200
Excursions/ Entertainment___________$ 800
Navigation_________________________$ 700
Insurance, Boat_____________________$ -0-
Insurance Health____________________$ 240 ( rainy day fund)
Souvenirs__________________________$ 150
Clothing and Sundries_______________$ 290


TOTAL_____________________$ 6,000

Lets talk about provisions... the largest item...

What tricks can we use to reduce the cost?

1. Make home dried hamburger......
a) heat oven to 250F
b) mix the hamburger with pepper and salt to taste
c) spread the hamburger on cookie sheets about 1 cm thick.
d) put in oven and mix hourly
f) is done when it turns dark and crumbly
g) store in ziplock bags, keeps for years
h) use like regular hamburger in stews, chili, etc.

2. Home can butter
a) buy half pint canning jars (jelly jars)
b) scald the jars and lids
c) pack salted butter into the jars until within 1 cm of the top
d) spread 0.5 cm of salt over the top of the butter
e) put on lids and rings and tighten rings
f) keeps for years

3. Drink Lime Squash and Limeade ( lemon works too)
a) add two capfuls of lime juice to a 12 oz glass
b) add a jigger of gin or vodka( use the cheap stuff)
c) add ice cubes if available
d) fill with cold water & stir
e) add sugar to taste
f) enjoy!!
4. Buy box wines... here in St. Thomas, 5 L costs $14 for a table white.
5. Get The Bean Book Amazon.com: The Bean Book: Over Seventy Incredible Recipes (9781585744732): Lyons Press: Books
6. Go to this website on Vegetarian Cooking Vegetarian Recipes | VegCooking.com
and buy several cookbooks
7. Bottle your own meats.
8. Make your own pasta
9 Make your own crackers
10. Make your own bread
11. Discover cabbage soup

INDY
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Old 17-06-2010, 11:47   #525
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Quote:
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Our annual cruising budget now is:
Entry & Clearance Fees______________$ 150

INDY
Come on INDY, you said you were an experanced world traveler...Better revise that budget again.. It cost me more than that to get into Mexico.. unless you plan on cruising the waters of the world and NEVER stopping...
mexico boat insurance (manditory) cost me 145,, zarpas were 48 each for the two of us, and havent even bought the fishing licences yet......
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