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Old 13-06-2010, 21:30   #496
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Other Boats at the cheap end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Breakaway View Post
"So lets reprise:

The budget minded guy must look for a classic boat of 5-8 tons displacement with an OAL between 28-34 ft.
Given this person has a budget of < $25 k for the boat and ~ $ 10 K for outfitting the boat, the following boats come to mind:

Southern Cross 31
Oday 34
NorthEaster 32
Pearson Vanguard.


Goprisko, you've mentioned an Oday 34 twice as a candidate boat, but did not include it in the run-down of your favored boats in yesterday's posts. I'm surprised you've included what I thought was a light coastal cruiser as a candidate boat.

Please tell us more of your thinking on an Oday 34.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goprisko View Post
Please pardon me... I meant the Tartan 34, not the Oday. I posted plans and specs for the Tartan 34..

INDY

So why not the Oday 34

Other boats to consider would be the
Chinook 34
or Cal 34
or Ranger 33
or Ericson 32
or Cal 29
or Cascade 29

A Chinook 34 has circumnavigated. 1 Cal 34 has been around, another one started but stalled in New Zealand, apparently when an infant came on the scene, though that is the inferred reason for discontinuing, details are not available. I have personal friends that took a Cal 34 to Hawai'i and back from Seattle in 1985. At least 2 Cascade 29's went around and a Cal 29 went to Tahiti.
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Old 14-06-2010, 09:15   #497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goprisko View Post

...ICE BOX....

Assuming our budget minded cruiser is handy with his tools, he will be content to modify the built in box, perhaps with more insulation.

Let's assume this costs $ 500 and the box is good for 20 years because he used closed cell airex or polyethylene foam..

Operating costs are as follows:
Box $ 25 / yr
Ice $ 50 / month(Caribbean) or $ 600 / yr

...

We now have

Ice Box $ 25 / yr
Ice $ 600/ yr
...
I'm about on page 18, catching up on this thread. Can you say more about ice versus a solar panel and a peltier-cooled fridge?

I just picked up a peltier fridge for $15. (I think they are at Target in the US for about $99.) It seems to cool down to 41.5 degrees. By covering the front/top/sides (not the back) with a blanket, it may cool lower and certainly would use much fewer amps. The only moving parts are 2 very small fans on the outside and 1 small fan on the inside. By adding a solar panel and a battery I could cruise for years without spending any money on ice. Add replacement fans and I've got a spares kit for it.

This setup would be cheaper in the long run than buying ice. What are the thoughts on this approach?

Regards,
Brad
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Old 14-06-2010, 09:35   #498
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bene - i too am very curious, one of these crappy coolers came with my boat and i have since built an .box, and dissassembled the cooler to install it in my ice box, just not sure if its worth drilling the holes for it... anyone know what these things draw, and if it would be happy with it in a very well insulated box?
i suppose this deserves its own thread..
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Old 14-06-2010, 09:46   #499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OaklandSailor View Post
I have considered looking elsewhere, but frankly the travel expenses, unknown local personnel such as surveyors and boatyards plus the shipping expenses even if I did trust myself with all of the above puts such jaunts out of my range. As always I have far more time than money so I need to be content to be ready to pounce when the time comes.

About Snipes: This was the first boat I ever sailed and my father's as well, and I can tell you my memory of this little "2-seater" is that it was fantastic and a superb boat to learn on. Put a heeling strap amidships and buddy, you can show your chine to anyone you like. Ours was solid wood and as sweet as her name: "Sugar Plum".
Thank you for your reference regarding the Snipe... for many years it was the working man's day sailor... something he could build in his garage during the winter... take to the lake on weekends and holidays... and store upside down through the following off seasons...

As I recall... the LA SD area is chock full of boats... and with their economy in the toilet, would seem bargains can be had... I highlighted 5 boats that I personally know, this does not mean that other designs, perhaps better known in Calif, would not be suitable. Please look at the write up in Atom's website again..
Atom Voyages | Voyages Aboard the Sailboat Atom -* Good Old Boats List - choosing a* small voyaging sailboat

Regarding owner built SC 31(s). Some of them are pieces of art, others are not. However, all began with factory made hulls and decks. So... a poor finish job may be your lucky day ! Bargain hard... the boat is now 30-40 years old... you will have to dismantle much of it to refasten it anyway.... if most of that is rubbish, you can save time and demolish it... removing it in pieces... replacing it with a custom interior to suit yourself..

INDY
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Old 14-06-2010, 09:48   #500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SurferShane View Post
This is a great thread and I have enjoyed looking at some of the boat designs posted. There seems to be so many sea-kindly boats out there you can buy on a budget that would go just about anywhere. In comparison to Australia, there also seems to be a lot of good buys in America.

One good bit of advice I found was to look for a boat that had been sailed regularly and owned by a passionate sailor who knows their stuff. The boat I ended up buying turned out to be a real gem. Nonetheless, because it had been refitted and left on the hardstand, a lot of the running gear had started to deteriorate. For instance, fittings had frozen, some seals deteriorated and the sails were basically rotten. It was also set-up for sailing with a crew whereas I really needed something modified for single handed sailing. All these repairs and modifications can end up costing a lot more than you might have budgeted.

At the end of the day, I did not get a bad buy and she is a lovely boat. Likewise, it was the closet thing to suit my purpose I could find at the time. Still, if you can find a boat that is owned by a genuine seller, fitted out for the same use you intend and that has been loved you are better paying the few dollars extra. In the long-run it could turn out to be a lot less expensive than the “bargain” that turns out to be a real money pit?

Thank you very much for your contribution... truer words were never said...

INDY
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Old 14-06-2010, 09:52   #501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bene505 View Post
I'm about on page 18, catching up on this thread. Can you say more about ice versus a solar panel and a peltier-cooled fridge?

I just picked up a peltier fridge for $15. (I think they are at Target in the US for about $99.) It seems to cool down to 41.5 degrees. By covering the front/top/sides (not the back) with a blanket, it may cool lower and certainly would use much fewer amps. The only moving parts are 2 very small fans on the outside and 1 small fan on the inside. By adding a solar panel and a battery I could cruise for years without spending any money on ice. Add replacement fans and I've got a spares kit for it.

This setup would be cheaper in the long run than buying ice. What are the thoughts on this approach?

Regards,
Brad
If you look at my analysis, I came to the same conclusion.. The fridge I recommended cost $150 / yr to run...and made it practical to install LED interior
and Navigation Lamps, too.

ITEM_________Size_____#____Price/ea____TOTAL___LIFE___AnnualCost
LED Lamps_5watt_______5____30________150.00______20______$7. 50
Masthead Tricolor,
anchor with
automatic
photodiode____
5 watt____1____341_____$341.00______20_____$17.05
Battery Switch_______200amp___1_____83_____$83.00_______40______$ 2.08
DC Circuit Breaker Panel
with volt and amp
meters__
5 branch circuits__1___$423.00___$423.00_____40______$10.58
Two Conductor
Tinned Marine
Cable-interior
lighting___
__12 gauge____25_____1.4____$35.00_______40_______$0.88
Three Conductor
Tinned Marine
Cable- mast
lighting_____
14 gauge____40_____1.4____$56.00_______40_______$1.40
Solar Panel____60 Watt__2_____120____$240.00_______20______$12.00
Solar Panel
Controller____
10 amp____1______90_____$90.00_____10________$9.00
ENGLE Fridge__45 qt_____1_____800___$800.00_____7_______$114.29
Gp 31 deep
cycle battery__
115 amp hr__2_____130___$260.00______7_______$37.14
Annual Operating Cost____________________________________$211.90
Total Cost _________________________$2,748

The fridge I suggested, the 45 qt ENGEL, has a danfoss compressor, and can be used as a freezer. It draws 2.5 amps, and runs about 40% of the time in the tropics, when used as a refrigerator.

I have the 60 qt version which draws 5 amps and offers similar performance. These units came to my attention in Namibia. There they are used on safaris in the desert where day time temps exceed 45C. They were well received.

I suggested the smaller unit for the SC31, due to it's smaller current draw, and smaller size, making it more likely to fit into the available space.

A big advantage of these is the ability to remove the entire unit to the shop for repair.

If I were cruising in the Phillippines, I'd not likely think of installing a fridge, because ice is dirt cheap there... you can get 25 Kg for $ 0.50.

But I now cruise the West Indies, and ice is very expensive here, and was costing me $ 60 per month while running a box with 8 in of insulation in the sidewalls and 18in in the floor and 6 in in the top...

If you are cruising Lake Superior, or the Queen Charlottes, or Greenland... a fridge can be had by putting the food over the side... not so in the West Indies..

INDY

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Old 14-06-2010, 10:10   #502
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Around here, one of the boats I keep seeing for sale at a good price, is the Aquarius 23.
This appears to be a sort of microbus of sailboats, with all of the compromises pointed towards a boat that is workable in a small tow-able package. Workable, not a racer.
There is one converted to a "Terminal Trawler", complete with the sails and rig if you want to install it, for 2500$ right now.
There is one that was in the garage being rehabbed when the owner passed, and it is listed at 1600$. The seller told me he would take the boat back if a serious issue was discovered.
Why is this boat never discussed in the beginner boat class?
And while not wanting to offend anyone, I do want to hear the true known bad about them. It sounds like the perfect tow/launch/recover lake/fishing/beach if needed, boat for this part of the world, if you leave racing out of the equation.
I looked at a lightning set up for racing that needed some TLC, for 300$ here locally, with sails and a trailer. I passed on it because for my purpose, the deck needed to be removed, supported, and replaced with something a lot stronger than the thin deck that was in place. I likely should have bought it and changed it to suit me.
I would have a functional boat by now!
There is also a Compac 16 for a good price, but I am a pretty big person. Boat looks wonderful, but for camping out a few days on the boat, the Aquarius 23 seems the smarter choice for about the same money.
Sorry if this is too far off the topic. The last part of the discussion is exactly where I stand. Disabled with very little money to spend, but having caught the sailing bug pretty bad.
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Old 14-06-2010, 10:22   #503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahnlaashock View Post
Around here, one of the boats I keep seeing for sale at a good price, is the Aquarius 23.
This appears to be a sort of microbus of sailboats, with all of the compromises pointed towards a boat that is workable in a small tow-able package. Workable, not a racer.
There is one converted to a "Terminal Trawler", complete with the sails and rig if you want to install it, for 2500$ right now.
There is one that was in the garage being rehabbed when the owner passed, and it is listed at 1600$. The seller told me he would take the boat back if a serious issue was discovered.
Why is this boat never discussed in the beginner boat class?
And while not wanting to offend anyone, I do want to hear the true known bad about them. It sounds like the perfect tow/launch/recover lake/fishing/beach if needed, boat for this part of the world, if you leave racing out of the equation.
I looked at a lightning set up for racing that needed some TLC, for 300$ here locally, with sails and a trailer. I passed on it because for my purpose, the deck needed to be removed, supported, and replaced with something a lot stronger than the thin deck that was in place. I likely should have bought it and changed it to suit me.
I would have a functional boat by now!
There is also a Compac 16 for a good price, but I am a pretty big person. Boat looks wonderful, but for camping out a few days on the boat, the Aquarius 23 seems the smarter choice for about the same money.
Sorry if this is too far off the topic. The last part of the discussion is exactly where I stand. Disabled with very little money to spend, but having caught the sailing bug pretty bad.
All the boats you mention, except the Lightning, are not my choice for the "First Boat" category. Please note that the Lightning was available, with trailer for $300.

Your first boat must be something with a known market, trailerable to reduce costs, and readily salable in the event you find sailing is not for you. It should be a boat with a class association, so you can participate in regattas, and other events, and HAVE FUN !! The Rhodes 19, Lightning, and Snipe fill these criteria...

Of course, it needed a little work... but given that TLC, the boat likely would fetch more than the total investment, when it comes time to sell and move on to the cruising boat.

If your interest is Trailer Sailing, and Cruising, a very specialized endeavor, you are interested in the right size of boat, something between 22 and 27 ft. and the CapeDory 25 and Tartan 27 come to mind..

INDY
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Old 14-06-2010, 10:30   #504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SurferShane View Post
As I discovered lately a good way to cut down on alcohol consumption is to go cruising on a small budget! I only went for about five months and at first I had almost too much money till I did a lot of maintenance/replacements/repairs, partied too hard and then ran into mechanical problems thanks too a stray mooring line.

After the mechanical drama the bank balance disappeared and the second half of the trip was very low budget. I still treated myself to the odd drink, but this was nearly all bargain barrel takeaway drank onboard. The fishing was pretty ordinary for about 500 nm, which left me a bit short of good protein. Practically the whole last half the journey I avoided marinas and anchored. When I jumped on the scales back home I found I had lost 5 kg (maybe not a bad thing, but some muscle loss).

Toward the end of the the voyage down the East Coast of Australia the budget was probably running not much more than $500 AUS a month. If you are happy to go cold turkey on the booze and avoid running the motor you could probably get away with this for a fair while.

Nevertheless, I would be looking for work here and there to build the bank balance up ready for the next catastrophic failure, making sure maintenance was up to date and stashing some good provisions while I had the cash. (It might even be a thought to hide a few bottles of good Scotch and reds just in case things got bleak and the budget was again near zero!)

Better go write a few more job applications!
I have a feeling that the stray mooring line wrapped itself around your turning prop. I'm thinking your boat is a fin keel spade rudder type with the prop in the opening between, and supported by a strut.
When the line wrapped about the turning prop, it exerted sidewise pressure on the strut which gave way, and thus freed, the shaft bent itself into a version of a pretzel.

I've had lines wrap around the prop on Pegasus several times.. However, since the shaft is supported by the deadwood, the engine stalls before damage is done. Lots' of cursing, some diving, and voila' the beast is cut free and off we went. This is one reason, I don't recommend fin keel spade rudder boats for micro-budget cruising.

INDY
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Old 14-06-2010, 10:42   #505
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I live south of St. Louis.
LOZ with powerboats and jet ski's trying to swamp you.
Stockton, 150 miles one way. Carlyle a little closer the other way.
Alton pool on the river is the only real close by area to sail a boat of any size.

There is a Columbia Sabre 32 listed at 1900$ on LOZ now. You would have to have a trailer or cradle made for it, to get it off LOZ.

Not defending the pass on the Lightning. I was there, cash in hand. I looked it over, wanting a boat real bad, and I still passed. Not really sure why.
My first one I purchased was the aluminum 16 footer out in my yard with the rotten keel. It is still the boat I am looking for until you start to discuss cabin/camping type boats. I tend to judge every boat against it, and against my purpose. I suspect that is why the cluttered complicated rig on Lightning seemed so wrong to me.
I have a 16 foot boat with a huge open uncluttered cockpit, that I can pick one end up and move alone, with a huge deep centerboard, and about 125 square feet of sail, sitting in the yard broken!
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Old 14-06-2010, 15:03   #506
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I'd like to butt in and tell you what you don't want:

" your interest is Trailer Sailing, and Cruising, a very specialized endeavor, you are interested in the right size of boat, something between 22 and 27 ft. and the CapeDory 25 and Tartan 27 come to mind.."

Both these boats, while great boats, are possible to trailer and you might do it once or twice. Then, it will rapidly become too much trouble. The more trouble to rig, the less you'll use the boat. I don't know everything but I know that.

Fix the simple boat you have.
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Old 14-06-2010, 16:21   #507
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In nearly 40 years of living aboard and cruising, almost full time for the last 35 years, I've never had nor felt the need for a fridge. I had an icebox on my last boat, and used it only once or twice in ten years.
Learn to can and dry food. Far cheaper, simpler, and you can carry a year or two's supply aboard in little space.
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Old 14-06-2010, 17:13   #508
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brent - can your anyone here discuss the options and techniques for drying fish? or do you mostly can it? give us a general run down, i am eager to know, and it is in good context
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Old 15-06-2010, 09:56   #509
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brent - can your anyone here discuss the options and techniques for drying fish? or do you mostly can it? give us a general run down, i am eager to know, and it is in good context
Went to Koh Phang Ngang this year, and saw of this going on. What they do there is: slice the fish open and gut it, spread it flat on mesh, lay it on a frame in the sun, and apparently the multitudes of flies suck it dry. Then you pull it off the mesh, put it in bags, and sell it to the locals (didn't see many tourists eating it anyway!!!)
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Old 15-06-2010, 11:29   #510
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Drying Fish

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brent - can your anyone here discuss the options and techniques for drying fish? or do you mostly can it? give us a general run down, i am eager to know, and it is in good context
On the voyage from St. Helena to Acension, we had too many fish, and no ice left in the box, so we explored drying fish.

The recipe we have recommends salting the fish first...
Basically, you put the filets on a bed of salt, and cover them with salt.

The fish absorbs the salt and toughens.

After a day or two, when it is sufficiently tough, put it on a string to dry in the sun..

At sea there are no flies, so you don't need to cover the fish, just bring them in before sunset, so they don't absorb moisture during the night.

Once they are rock hard, they are dry. and you can store them in a bag

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