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Old 12-06-2010, 12:30   #481
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I would like to thank Goprisko for taking time to provide some very good ideas and a ton of information to those who wish to learn to sail for less.
Yes I would like to say the same, thank you. It takes time to write up long posts with data, check facts and present in a way that someone on the other side of the world, reading in this in a second language, will not only be able to understand but more importantly use the information So Indy, thanks

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Old 13-06-2010, 03:21   #482
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Same goes from me. Thanks Indy, it has been a challenge to read all this at times especially as I came in late and fell into the 3 hour long trap of reading the first half of this thread in one go...doh!

We don't fall into your category with our choice of yacht. The choice surprised us even but I am the camper/budgeter extraordinaire in our partnership and he is the lover of luxury with the sailing experience. We have adopted the spend as much as we could on the best boat for our money camp. In hindsight 18 months later his choice was good as we have had no where near the time I thought was available for a project pre our 2011 departure. So consequently a dearer boat with more bells and whistles than first planned for but this has equalled less money/time spent on repairs and parts to get to Cat 1 for departure from NZ. However more $ spent on boat means less in cruising kitty.

Initially this thread depressed me somewhat with the flamers (?correct term) and naysayers, but then there has been so much helpful info and real gems from people currently cruising in the region of our intended monthly budget that I feel heartened.

I agree that it is helpful to practice what you intend re living costs before departure. We currently live within the allocated budget for land related living in respect to food/medical/entertainment/clothing costs. This helps me to know if I can do that here I hope to do it anywhere.

So once again thanks to the OP for the post idea and thanks to the posters who have contributed ideas and evidence of current costs that confirm for us budget conscious planners at home that we are within cooeee.

Regards Clare :-)
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Old 13-06-2010, 03:23   #483
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Of course I realized it was tongue in cheek, but that does not diminsh the point of either of our posts.....

Alcohol = chunk of $500 budget

Too Much = what's the point????

As I discovered lately a good way to cut down on alcohol consumption is to go cruising on a small budget! I only went for about five months and at first I had almost too much money till I did a lot of maintenance/replacements/repairs, partied too hard and then ran into mechanical problems thanks too a stray mooring line.

After the mechanical drama the bank balance disappeared and the second half of the trip was very low budget. I still treated myself to the odd drink, but this was nearly all bargain barrel takeaway drank onboard. The fishing was pretty ordinary for about 500 nm, which left me a bit short of good protein. Practically the whole last half the journey I avoided marinas and anchored. When I jumped on the scales back home I found I had lost 5 kg (maybe not a bad thing, but some muscle loss).

Toward the end of the the voyage down the East Coast of Australia the budget was probably running not much more than $500 AUS a month. If you are happy to go cold turkey on the booze and avoid running the motor you could probably get away with this for a fair while.

Nevertheless, I would be looking for work here and there to build the bank balance up ready for the next catastrophic failure, making sure maintenance was up to date and stashing some good provisions while I had the cash. (It might even be a thought to hide a few bottles of good Scotch and reds just in case things got bleak and the budget was again near zero!)

Better go write a few more job applications!
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Old 13-06-2010, 04:10   #484
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[COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]As I discovered

Nevertheless, I would be looking for work here and there to build the bank balance up ready for the next catastrophic failure, making sure maintenance was up to date and stashing some good provisions while I had the cash. (It might even be a thought to hide a few bottles of good Scotch and reds just in case things got bleak and the budget was again near zero!)

Better go write a few more job applications!
Hey Shane,

As you know, we are working down here in Tas to build the kitty up for going north. We hope to leave Tas after wooden boat festival in Feb 2011. We could not do it on $500, even though we anchored out majority of the time. Jen blames me and the demon drink.
Mate I would love to know how your trip back to Newi went after all your drama's at the Percy's.Did you take a board and get any surf on the way?

Cherrs
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Old 13-06-2010, 05:05   #485
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Hey Shane,

As you know, we are working down here in Tas to build the kitty up for going north. We hope to leave Tas after wooden boat festival in Feb 2011. We could not do it on $500, even though we anchored out majority of the time. Jen blames me and the demon drink.
Mate I would love to know how your trip back to Newi went after all your drama's.Did you take a board and get any surf on the way?

Cherrs
I actually enjoyed the trip from Southport to Newcastle as much I did North QLD. Maybe it was because I hit some nice clear water and had that pod of dolphins riding with me into NSW. Julian Rocks at Byron Bay was a great free-dive and the sun and surf around Coffs Harbour cost absolutely nothing except my provisions, a couple of those excellent clean skin red wines and the odd bit of diesel when I steamed out for a dive. Great thing about Coffs is you have surf beaches on both sides of the harbour in both southerly and northerly conditions.

Then the anchorages in NSW like Coffs, SW Rocks, Crowdy Head and Seal Rocks again cost nothing. Good thing about Crowdy is there is nowhere to spend money except the Fish Co-op, which only sells seafood, ice and diesel (ie - no pub or bottleshop). I suppose people might have looked down on me for anchoring directly next to the marina in Coffs, but funny enough I also had Bruce Arms - Jessica Watson’s project manager – anchored next to me in the “Big Wave Rider” cat for a day or so.

I also started catching a few fish trolling from SW down, so I did not really need all that much more than the last of the tinned provisions and the odd loaf of bread. I suppose this frugal approach was how I made the last few weeks near broke. Regardless, as above having little money was not at all a drama – the relaxation and memories were the kind of things cash just can’t buy!

Pity Newcastle is a bit different with it’s not so cheap Cruising Yacht Club and lack of public wharves and all the heavy shipping. Nonetheless, there are still a few places you can anchor and a half decent public pontoon at Stockton. To moor next to the Maritime Museum directly adjacent restaurants and the main street is also only $25 for 24 hrs regardless of boat size. If you anchor at Horseshoe beach (southern sand bay directly inside the harbour good in most conditions except when a heavy NE wind or swell is coming through the heads) the beaches on the ocean side have a variety of surf breaks.


Sorry people about getting a bit off-track, but at least this shows you can still be almost anywhere in the world and have fun enjoying the simple things in life! Now it is time for me to get some decent work and do all that work on the boat so I can comfortably go again.
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Old 13-06-2010, 14:04   #486
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Originally Posted by s/v Breakaway View Post
"So lets reprise:

The budget minded guy must look for a classic boat of 5-8 tons displacement with an OAL between 28-34 ft.
Given this person has a budget of < $25 k for the boat and ~ $ 10 K for outfitting the boat, the following boats come to mind:

Southern Cross 31
Oday 34
NorthEaster 32
Pearson Vanguard.


Goprisko, you've mentioned an Oday 34 twice as a candidate boat, but did not include it in the run-down of your favored boats in yesterday's posts. I'm surprised you've included what I thought was a light coastal cruiser as a candidate boat.

Please tell us more of your thinking on an Oday 34.
Please pardon me... I meant the Tartan 34, not the Oday. I posted plans and specs for the Tartan 34..

INDY
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Old 13-06-2010, 14:18   #487
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Please pardon me... I meant the Tartan 34, not the Oday. I posted plans and specs for the Tartan 34..

INDY
Indy,
I really like your idea about the SC 31 and the N'Easter 32 and I've been looking for each but both appear to be very rare here in the San Francisco bay area. I did visit on a Souther Cross 28, but I'm 6-0" and found the cabin very narrow and cramped. Beautiful boat though, and very well reviewed. I did locate a 1974 Tartan 34, but it was $45k and was a yawl but I have little interest in one. BTW, I really appreciate your posts as they seem to be to the point and on message with the thread.

OS
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Old 13-06-2010, 14:25   #488
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Boats to start with...

The micro-budget cruiser must replace money he doesn't have with skills...many of which he must learn.

Today's micro-budget cruiser must recognize that his $ 6000 per year doesn't have the purchasing power of Larry Pardey's $ 2500/yr in 75. How could it? I rented a flat from Mrs. Samek for $75/month back then, gas was $0.50 / gallon, my new Buick Century cost $ 3000 back then. Things are nearly 5 times more expensive now. This means a comparable budget must be $ 12,000 / year, double what we are discussing here.

Today's micro-budget cruiser must read carefully and glean the nuggets within the writings of the Pardeys, Hiscocks, Roths, and others. He won't be able to go to the marinas, as they did, but he can go to the anchorages. He won't be able to winter in many of the places they did, unless he is seeking work as they did. He will buy fewer canned goods, and more legumes and rice, and he will spend more time in the cheap countries than they did. But he can still go...

Doing without an engine to save money will require he have sufficient skill to sail on and off moorings, anchor, and docks. Learning this in a boat of any size is prohibitively expensive. These skills need be learned in smaller boats.

The guy with no experience reading this thread must also acknowledge that his dream of sailing, may prove to be his nightmare. There is only one way to know, and that is to go sailing. In what???

Cruising need not be trans ocean voyages... depending upon one's age it may be sufficient to go off for the weekend to the far side of the lake, or the bay, or the sound, or the fjord..

What follows are plans, photos, and specifications of three boats to start cruising with, the Rhodes 19, Lightning, and Snipe. (1)

Any of these boats can be purchased used for a few thousand dollars, including trailer, they can be launched and retrieved from any boat ramp using the family sedan. They can be stored at home, repaired at home, built at home in many cases.

One of these boats can vastly improve your love life, taking you from a stumbling idiot, with corny opening lines, to a man respected and sought after.

For example, given you are interested in a racy looking gal who attends your church, evening class at college, works in the next cubicle, or is the waitress at the McDonalds nearby, why not ask her the following question....

"Would you like to go sailing?"
"Have you seen the stars from the bay?"
"Did you know there are seven constellations visible tonight?"
"Would you like to go to a neat party?"


All these opportunities and more can be yours, if you own one of these boats.

INDY

(1) The posts with specs etc. of the Rhodes 19, Lightning and Snipe have been deleted, as they violated CF rules against posting copyrighted material. goprisko has been informed that he's welcome to post short excerpts and a link to the sites if he desires.
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Old 13-06-2010, 14:39   #489
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Indy,
I really like your idea about the SC 31 and the N'Easter 32 and I've been looking for each but both appear to be very rare here in the San Francisco bay area. I did visit on a Souther Cross 28, but I'm 6-0" and found the cabin very narrow and cramped. Beautiful boat though, and very well reviewed. I did locate a 1974 Tartan 34, but it was $45k and was a yawl but I have little interest in one. BTW, I really appreciate your posts as they seem to be to the point and on message with the thread.

OS
Please note that I am biased toward the SC 31, because I almost bought one. I'd guess that those boats would be more popular on the east coast, though I did know of one based in Michigan City, IN. At $46 K, I agree the man wants too much for his Tartan. In your country, the Pacific Seacrafts are dominant, I'd guess, but very expensive.. I believe you can find the Babas there too... also expensive..

Did you ever consider a trip afield to look at one? I believe there are some in Texas..

INDY
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Old 13-06-2010, 14:49   #490
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Why I Started This Thread....

I'm 63 now.... My parents died aged 64 and 69.. Hypertension and heart disease runs in my family. My childhood dream was sailing around the world. After many false starts, and circumlocutions, I left in 97 at age 50. My only regret is that I didn't get it together sooner. I'd love to be 45 now, and able to emigrate to NZ.. I really like NZ, but I'm too old to meet their specs...

I know that the US and AUZ are facing a deflationary depression. Go to Steve Keen's blog..
Steve Keen's Debtwatch

for more information on this.

Many now secure folks are going to find themselves homeless, and jobless before this is over. During the great depressoni, many went to the northwoods and built cabins in the wilderness, or went sailing off to the south pacific, or central america, or camped in Yosemite Valley.

This thread is for them...

INDY
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Old 13-06-2010, 14:53   #491
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Please note that I am biased toward the SC 31, because I almost bought one. I'd guess that those boats would be more popular on the east coast, though I did know of one based in Michigan City, IN. At $46 K, I agree the man wants too much for his Tartan. In your country, the Pacific Seacrafts are dominant, I'd guess, but very expensive.. I believe you can find the Babas there too... also expensive..

Did you ever consider a trip afield to look at one? I believe there are some in Texas..

INDY
I have considered looking elsewhere, but frankly the travel expenses, unknown local personnel such as surveyors and boatyards plus the shipping expenses even if I did trust myself with all of the above puts such jaunts out of my range. As always I have far more time than money so I need to be content to be ready to pounce when the time comes.

About Snipes: This was the first boat I ever sailed and my father's as well, and I can tell you my memory of this little "2-seater" is that it was fantastic and a superb boat to learn on. Put a heeling strap amidships and buddy, you can show your chine to anyone you like. Ours was solid wood and as sweet as her name: "Sugar Plum".
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Old 13-06-2010, 14:59   #492
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SC31's

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Please note that I am biased toward the SC 31, because I almost bought one.
INDY
Some SC31's are well built, others are not. They sold the boats in various levels of completion. The owner completed boats are generally avoided by Southern Cross fans.
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Old 13-06-2010, 15:04   #493
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pick up lines from indiana george!

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Originally Posted by goprisko View Post

One of these boats can vastly improve your love life, taking you from a stumbling idiot, with corny opening lines, to a man respected and sought after.

For example, given you are interested in a racy looking gal who attends your church, evening class at college, works in the next cubicle, or is the waitress at the McDonalds nearby, why not ask her the following question....

"Would you like to go sailing?"
"Have you seen the stars from the bay?"
"Did you know there are seven constellations visible tonight?"
"Would you like to go to a neat party?"

All these opportunities and more can be yours, if you own one of these boats.

INDY
Just had to isolate this gem so it wasn't missed in all the cut and paste! Keep em comin George!
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Old 13-06-2010, 15:34   #494
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Starter Boats

The Flying Scot (19'), Cal20 & Catalina 22 would all also make good starter boats and are available in the $1k-3k range.

Based on personal experience over 15yr sailing both Scot and Lightning, the Scot is the better boat. You can get somewhat better performance out of the Lightning if you sail it in the groove, but the groove is so much narrower on the Lightning than the Scot. The Scot is more stable, can carry more people and gear and is more comfortable generally.

The Cal20 and Catalina22 are starter keelboats. The Cal20 is actually capable of going offshore with some upgrades. In the early 1980's one was sailed to Hawai'i from the West coast and cruised there for a while.

As for the pickup lines, I met my wife sailing so they wouldn't have been very useful with her.


Quote:
Originally Posted by goprisko View Post

Cruising need not be trans ocean voyages... depending upon one's age it may be sufficient to go off for the weekend to the far side of the lake, or the bay, or the sound, or the fjord..

What follows are plans, photos, and specifications of three boats to start cruising with, the Rhodes 19, Lightning, and Snipe.

Any of these boats can be purchased used for a few thousand dollars, including trailer, they can be launched and retrieved from any boat ramp using the family sedan. They can be stored at home, repaired at home, built at home in many cases.

One of these boats can vastly improve your love life, taking you from a stumbling idiot, with corny opening lines, to a man respected and sought after.

For example, given you are interested in a racy looking gal who attends your church, evening class at college, works in the next cubicle, or is the waitress at the McDonalds nearby, why not ask her the following question....

"Would you like to go sailing?"
"Have you seen the stars from the bay?"
"Did you know there are seven constellations visible tonight?"
"Would you like to go to a neat party?"

All these opportunities and more can be yours, if you own one of these boats.

INDY
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Old 13-06-2010, 18:41   #495
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This is a great thread and I have enjoyed looking at some of the boat designs posted. There seems to be so many sea-kindly boats out there you can buy on a budget that would go just about anywhere. In comparison to Australia, there also seems to be a lot of good buys in America.

One good bit of advice I found was to look for a boat that had been sailed regularly and owned by a passionate sailor who knows their stuff. The boat I ended up buying turned out to be a real gem. Nonetheless, because it had been refitted and left on the hardstand, a lot of the running gear had started to deteriorate. For instance, fittings had frozen, some seals deteriorated and the sails were basically rotten. It was also set-up for sailing with a crew whereas I really needed something modified for single handed sailing. All these repairs and modifications can end up costing a lot more than you might have budgeted.

At the end of the day, I did not get a bad buy and she is a lovely boat. Likewise, it was the closet thing to suit my purpose I could find at the time. Still, if you can find a boat that is owned by a genuine seller, fitted out for the same use you intend and that has been loved you are better paying the few dollars extra. In the long-run it could turn out to be a lot less expensive than the “bargain” that turns out to be a real money pit?
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