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Old 10-06-2010, 05:40   #421
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goprisko View Post
Were all this gear added to the Southern Cross 31, her displacement would rise from the stock 13,600# to 17,400#, and she would ride about 3:" deep on her lines.

Many trendy folks, favor go fast/ light displacement boats. Regardless of the boat's factory displacement, the above mass of gear must be accomodated. On many of the Hunters/Beneteaus and other fin keel spade rudder boats, we see rows of jericans lining each side deck, often adding 100 gal of mixed fuel/water or 800# of weight at deck level, in the worst possible place stability wise. Further, these items obstruct access forward, converting the deck into a dodgem arena.

The Pardeys suggested a rule of thumb of a ton of gear per person, and we see from the above analysis, that their proposal is correct.
Goprisko, interesting to see the numbers. We have one of those normal GRP Euro boats and at 31 feet she weighed 9400 lbs out of the factory. With just coastal cruising kit on board (dinghy, outboard, Honda genny, 90L of fuel and 136L of water we now weigh in at 11200 lbs. For a long offshore passage, lots of extra water, fuel and food will be our problem as you point out. The weight of food was brought home to me last Autumn when we de-kitted the yacht for the winter. I stuffed the tins and packets into a suitcase to carry it off the boat, only to find I had difficulty lifting it out of the companion way.

However I think it is do-able but with lots of thought and ideas from CF. For example our spare "storm" anchor is a Fortress FX23, it's both huge and light plus takes little room because space is the other major factor to consider.

Pete
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Old 10-06-2010, 12:29   #422
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Spares....

First of all, a boat in the 28-34 ft / 5-7 ton range must be kept simple. This is necessary to keep operating costs within budget, and to simplify spares.

As we discussed earlier, with the SC31 configured as I described, the following spares are required:

Galley - spare burners & control valves & regulator for cooker
_______spare seacock, band clamps & thru hull & 5200 to rebed same
_______spares kit for FynSpray WS80 pumps including leathers, pumpstem,
__________handle, rivet, ball, stem top, and stem bottom.
_______spare sink strainer(s)

Rig - spare piece of 1X19 wire long enough to replace any one shroud / stay with one end terminated and a field installable terminal for the other & cable cutters & turnbuckle & toggle & pins & cotters
____enough line to replace the halyards and sheets once
____ spare block(s) sufficient to replace any defective block in the boat (it pays to simplify and standardize the blocks on the boat, so one or two are sufficient)

Steering - spare tiller & tiller head fitting & gudgeon or bearing(s)

Hull - spare 2 m of each size Hose in the boat & 4 or more band clamps to fit each
____spare seacock, thruhull, marinetex, tapered wood plugs,
____fasteners of each size on the boat sufficient to replace those on any cleat,
________winch, track, mast step, etc
_____ fenders
_____spare hinges sufficient to replace any hatch hinge, any locker hinge
_____spare turn buttons, latches, locks to replace any defective one

Anchoring Gear - spare shackles, french links, swivels, 400 ft of 5/8 laid nylon,
______________thimbles sufficient to make up two spare anchor rodes

Sails - repair kit containing palms, pliers, hand sewing needles, beeswax, thread of various weights, hanks, rings, Drings, webbing, cloth tape in various widths, adhesive patches

Dinghy - spare painter, dink anchor, tiedown

Engine (if fitted) - oil filters, lube oil, gearbox oil (if different) oil cooler, heat exchanger, fuel pump, injectors, raw water pump, fresh water pump, pulley(s), clutches, oil seal(s) gasket set, zincs, torque wrench, oil changing kit, hose, alternator, starter, belts.

Head - Lavac seat seal kit,, vented loop valve, pump repair kit, hose clamps,
______spare hose,

Electrical - VOM, diagonal cutting pliers, electricians pliers, crimping pliers,
__________terminals, spare wire enough to replace any one branch circuit
__________on the boat, including the starting circuit and the charging circuit.
_________ If deep cycle regulator is fitted, ship a spare for it.
__________Spare circuit breakers & fuses.

Oil Lamps - spare chimneys, mantles, wicks, font, wall bracket.

Tools - hammers, saws, drills, taps&dies, screw drivers, pry bars, socket set,
_______open end wrench set, box wrench set, feeler gauge, planes, sandpaper,
_______ paint brushes, thinner, paint, paint bucket(s), roller&covers,
________sufficient to replace anything on the boat, and paint it.

Your boat, if different, or if configured differently, will require modifications to the spares list. You must allocate space as low in the boat as possible for most of these items, due to their weight. Sensitive items need be sealed in plastic to keep out damp(eg: starters&alternators).

INDY
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Old 10-06-2010, 12:45   #423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
Goprisko, interesting to see the numbers. We have one of those normal GRP Euro boats and at 31 feet she weighed 9400 lbs out of the factory. With just coastal cruising kit on board (dinghy, outboard, Honda genny, 90L of fuel and 136L of water we now weigh in at 11200 lbs. For a long offshore passage, lots of extra water, fuel and food will be our problem as you point out. The weight of food was brought home to me last Autumn when we de-kitted the yacht for the winter. I stuffed the tins and packets into a suitcase to carry it off the boat, only to find I had difficulty lifting it out of the companion way.

However I think it is do-able but with lots of thought and ideas from CF. For example our spare "storm" anchor is a Fortress FX23, it's both huge and light plus takes little room because space is the other major factor to consider.

Pete
Dear Pete,

You are kidding yourself... The fortress is a danforth knock off. It will break out if the wind shifts, the one you mention is about the size of the 40# danforth standard, lots of holding power in sand, which is what the anchor was designed for, holding a straight line pull in sand to assist the retraction of landing craft from the beach. I recommended the 3 piece Luke Anchor, because it goes down and holds in rock, turtle grass, crusted bottoms, sand, muck - what ever. Since it is in 3 pieces, the individual parts are easy to handle, and they stow in a small place. See one of the Pardey's books for specifics.

Danforths are very useful as kedges, they are not reliable in shifting wind / tide conditions. for those you need a burying anchor. The CQR was the standard for eons... but it doesn't dive through a crust, and it doesn't hold well in rock. The Bruce is a much better choice for an all around anchor. It stows on a roller, dives through crust and turtle grass if heavy enough, buries and does not break out if the direction of pull changes, even through 180 degrees. To make it reliably dive through a crust and turtle grass, one need sharpen the side flukes with a grinder.

Regardless, you are finding that at the moment you have added a ton of kit to your boat, and you have more to go... keep in mind that this is not a contest, there are no prizes for the boat with the lightest kit. We are not racing.

Your prize is having what you need, when & where you need it, so you are not stranded somewhere. Remember this as you make out your list.

Also, I practiced what I am preaching here. I outiftted Pegasus with appropriate spares before departure 15 years ago. They proved a better investment than the investment schemes I relied upon for income to fund the expedition. I am still using stuff I put aboard all those years ago. And... now that my income is a fraction of what it was back then... I thank my lucky stars that I did....

INDY
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Old 10-06-2010, 13:03   #424
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How to read a lines Drawing

Some of you are looking at boats, trying to choose one... So let's examine the Southern Cross 31's lines drawing and see what it tells us....

Please examine the attached..... if it is not big enough, go to.....

http://www.southerncross-boats.org/images/SC31-Lines-1.GIF

In the profile drawing, the curved lines are the buttocks. they represent vertical slices
parallel to the centerline of the boat, running fore and aft. The straight vertical lines in the profile drawing are the stations, which show as curved lines in the body plan, here superimposed over the profile.

Note that the buttocks flatten aft. This gives the boat a better run, moves the quarter wave aft, and improves her sailing speed.

Note that the body plan shows vertical sides to nearly the water line. It will be much easier to keep fenders in place against a wall or another yacht, and there will be more room below, and the boat will be stiffer.

Note that the sections also have dead rise from the turn of the bilge to the keel, and the keel is a wine glass full design. Should water get below, most of it will stay in the sump, where it belongs, not sloshing all about wetting everything. With a large area below the water line, there is ample storage volume down there so loading the boat should be stability neutral, if you do it right.

Look at the sailing photo...

Note the boat is sailing up right... on her bottom, as she should...

Note the location of the wind vane... consideration for a vane was part of the design..

Regarding the Airex cored hull... There has been a lot of rubbish scattered about regarding Airex cored hulls. Airex is a closed cell foam designed for use as a core in GRP laminates. CE Ryder, builder of this boat glued the foam onto the outer skin, then slit it diagonally in two directions, then filled the slits with resin, then covered the foam with the interior laminates. I know this first hand, as I saw the process ongoing at the factory in the early 80's. Should the bedding around a hull penetration fail, water migration is limited, because the foam is closed cell, and because, CE Ryder divided it into small cells via the slitting and resin impregnation process. These hulls are extremely long lived.

INDY
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Old 10-06-2010, 13:25   #425
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Wheat Berries.....

In RSA, I bought something called Stampcoring, wheat berries by another name...

Originally, I thought to put them through our flour mill and make whole wheat flour. In the event, the packages lay in the bottle with the lentils, until today.

I am very interested in the possibilities of wheat berries.. My arabic cookbook has a recipe for a soup made from them... not too different from scotch barley soup...

So today I made a pilaf from them. Recipe is as follows:
200 gm of goat, lamb, or chuck, cut into 1 cm dice.
1 1/2 C wheat berries or burgol
1 C brown lentils
1 onion
3 cloves garlic
1 can tomatoes
12 black olives
1 stalk celery
1 carrot
1 t black pepper
1 t red pepper flakes
1t rosemary
1t sage
1 T parsley flakes
1/4 C oil
4 1/2 C water or beef broth
1T beef base or 3 boullion cubes
1 t salt

Put the wheat berries ni enough water to cover plus 1 cm. Bring to a boil, simmer 5 minutes while covered, and remove from heat.

Put the brown lentils in enough water to cover, bring to a boil, simmer 15 minutes while covered, and remove from heat.

Put the swollen wheat berries into a hot skillet into which half the oil has been poured, add the pepepr flakes, and toast. Once toasteed, remove to the pot with the lentils.

Add the rest of the oil to the skillet, and brown the meat, once browned, remove from skillet and add half the chopped onion, the garlic, and the sliced carrot.
Saute until barely golden.
Add the lentil / wheat berry / meat mixture and the spices to the skillet.
Saute to blend the flavors.
Add the remaining water/stock, boullion/base to the skillet.
Scatter the vegetables across the top
Cover and simmer for an hour.

Texture should be granular..

Wheat berries are available in 20 L pails and in tins... they have lots of protein...

INDY
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Old 10-06-2010, 13:44   #426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goprisko View Post
Dear Pete,

You are kidding yourself... The fortress is a danforth knock off. It will break out if the wind shifts, the one you mention is about the size of the 40# danforth standard, lots of holding power in sand, which is what the anchor was designed for, holding a straight line pull in sand to assist the retraction of landing craft from the beach. I recommended the 3 piece Luke Anchor, INDY
Hmm, thanks but the Fortress is staying. Actually we have a fishermans anchor, but it decorates our fish pond at home which is were its staying, unless we every plan on cruising Scotland.

Pete
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Old 10-06-2010, 14:10   #427
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It Seems like our friend springbok is still living in the past. The RSA coast is only as dangerous as the skipper making the decisions. Read CPT Slocums book and you see what can be done. RSA coast a walk in the park. Not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Stop wining get on a 23footer if you have to...I know sailors who has. As for criusing in namibia...Its damn great waking up in Samwich harbour and see no one. No one for miles apart from some tour operators in 4 wheel drives and they onle sometimes come within 5miles of the point. If you like to cruise other places do it. Different strokes for different folkes. As for 500$ us a month...That equals n$4000. the average salary per day here is less than N$100 and lots of people get by with less than N$ 50 a day. That is less than $4 US a day. You can cruise here for cheap. Depends on you.
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Old 11-06-2010, 12:06   #428
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Cruising the African Coast.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by leslie View Post
It Seems like our friend springbok is still living in the past. The RSA coast is only as dangerous as the skipper making the decisions. Read CPT Slocums book and you see what can be done. RSA coast a walk in the park. Not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Stop wining get on a 23footer if you have to...I know sailors who has. As for criusing in namibia...Its damn great waking up in Samwich harbour and see no one. No one for miles apart from some tour operators in 4 wheel drives and they onle sometimes come within 5miles of the point. If you like to cruise other places do it. Different strokes for different folkes. As for 500$ us a month...That equals n$4000. the average salary per day here is less than N$100 and lots of people get by with less than N$ 50 a day. That is less than $4 US a day. You can cruise here for cheap. Depends on you.
Dear Leslie:

I agree with the above. Springbok has not cruised this coast. Had he, he'd of known who Alistair and Fred were. Alistair runs the Amateur Weather Net covering all of Africa from the Zambezi South. Fred ran the Marine Weather Net til 2006, when he retired and was replaced by a friend of ours from the Royal Natal YC. These gentlemen know the coast very well, having cruised it extensively. They also know the weather systems far better than the blokes from the Met Service.

Using their advice, tempered by my experience, we transited the coast in winter (Jun-Aug), from Richards Bay to Walvis Bay with only two periods of gale force weather, and both were from favorable directions, so we reefed down and zipped along to the next port.

The coast of Namibai has many anchorages between the Orange River and WB, most are roadsteds, a few give excellent protection, such as the anchorages east of many of the offshore islands such as Ichaboe Island, Possession Island, and the one just south of Luderitz, in Elizabeth Bay.

All the offshore islands are hosts to breeding colonies of gannets and other seabirds, originally mined for guano by the Brits.
.
Further, there are several excellent bays open to the north which give good protection.

As you also mention, most of these you will have to yourself. The fishing is generally good, clamming too. No where to spend much money too.

The Luderitz YC is welcoming to the visiting yacht, and offers temporary memberships which gives access to their showers, water, parking, and friendship, which includes much info regarding the coast. Further, the naturalist from Ichaboe Island is a member, and a visit to the YC on the right day is an opportunity to meet him, discuss his work, and perhaps obtain an invitation to visit for a while.

My only complaint is the water is COLD !!! BRRRR.....

INDY
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Old 11-06-2010, 12:54   #429
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You can sail/cruise anywhere. Some people are into cruising bleak and cold climates. The cold waters off the Namibian coast is not my cup of tea re swimming,diving or fishing, give me warmer climates and clearer more interesting beaches and sea beds ie Bahamas, Caribbean etc That is my choice. I have sailed the S.African coast but consider it a transit, not a cruising area. I do not seek out any port or any pub and swop "when-we stories", nor do I need to name drop to try to impress people on any forum.
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Old 11-06-2010, 14:49   #430
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I got half way through this interesting post, and I started to wonder if manners had finally been forgotten here. A number of the posts seem to be about attacking other posters, not about the topic. I gave up halfway through.
Skipping to the end did not help either.
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Old 11-06-2010, 15:13   #431
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Originally Posted by Ahnlaashock View Post
I got half way through this interesting post, and I started to wonder if manners had finally been forgotten here. A number of the posts seem to be about attacking other posters, not about the topic. I gave up halfway through.
Skipping to the end did not help either.
I suggest you visit pages 18-20 & 28.

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Old 11-06-2010, 16:09   #432
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Moorings...............

A mooring is an anchoring system put down by someone for permanent use. It that someone is you, then you know what lies under water, and when it was last maintained. IF that someone is not you, then before you trust it, you'd best examine it, and determine it's suitability, otherwise, shame on you!!

No one can force you to take a mooring, just as no one can force you to take a marina slip. No one can abrogate your responsibility for the safety and security of your ship, no one, not even customs... and definitely not a marina operator.

There are so many moorings because the current boating public uses them.... They do so because the current crop of cruising boats are racer/cruisers of light displacement, and most of these boats would assume an attitude akin to that of a crash diving submarine, if they were outfitted with proper ground tackle.

Often maintenance on moorings is deferred.... especially in the tropics.. the laid back atomosphere... reeks of Man'na.... tomorrow.. but tomorrow never comes...
As happened to the mooring holding the sportfisherman belonging to the Commodore of the Salinas YC, one sunny day... fortunately, I noticed and put a line aboard, that was secured to Pegasus' stern bollard... that deed got me honorary club membership... for life..

As happened one fine day to the Westsail 42 belonging to the owner of a local PC repair shop... fortunately I noticed the boat sailing downwind just a meter off the starboard side of a boat I was visiting.... we gave chase... used the neighbor's dink like a tug to fend the miscreant off a neighboring catamaran's bow, and anchored the beast...

Moorings can be useful.... Pegasus lay to one donated by the community of Luderitz for the two years we were stationed in Outapi at the district hospital.. but I put swivels on it, and a 4 part bridle on it, and hired a local to watch the boat.... Took lots of criticism for the 4 part bridle.... OVERKILL, they said... INSURANCE was my reply.... Despite daily gales, the boat stayed put... while others did not....

In most of the world, and this includes Mexico, the bottom belongs to the public, as does everything up to the high tide line. Thus no one can prohibit you're anchoring among moorings. It may not be wise, but there is nothing legal they can do, but they can make your life miserable, certainly.

The solution? Get your business done, and leave... spend your money elsewhere..

INDY
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Old 11-06-2010, 16:48   #433
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Hi,

As a circum-navigator, I offer this thread to everyone interested in cruising on a budget.

In this case the budget is $500 US Dollars per month...

This is a tight budget, and one we barely fit into, but the sort of budget necessary for
younger folks to cut ties and set off...

I offer the following break down of expenses for such a budget based upon a crew of two:

Food $ 150
Port Entry and Clearance $ 50
Entertainment $ 50
Sail maintenance $ 50
Fuel $ 50
Haulouts $ 50
Repairs $ 100
TOTAL $ 500

I am assuming a haulout every 3 years costing $ 1800 including paint and yard fees.

I am assuming Sail repairs will be done by the crew and $ 600 / year is set aside for
replacements

I am assuming the engine is used as little as possible, LPG is used for cooking and costs $12 / month the balance being fuel for the main engine, with the dink rowed or sailed.

I am allowing $1200 / year for repairs and up grades to the boat itself.

My entertainment allowance is based upon potlucks.. inviting guests aboard for tea..
limiting drinks severely.

The food budget assumes meat is a luxury, bread is baked aboard, legumes and vegetables are the bulk of the diet, and dining out is a rarity.

Now... what sort of boat makes sense for this kind of cruising???

If we look at those who went on such budgets... the Pardeys for example... we find
the following characteristics...

Tiller steering
Heavy Displacement and 24 - 32 ft OAL
Masthead cutter rig
aft cockpit
hard dink which is rowed or sailed
very small engine ~ 4 HP or none
Ice Box
Oil Lamps
Paraffin stove
Virtually NO ELECTRONICS
Paper Charts

Wanderer III, Taleisn, Seraffyn, the Southern Cross 31 fit this category..

Your comments and suggestions are welcome..... and PLEASE examine the below
photo to reinforce why you might do this...

INDY
I came up with a list of candidate boats...

Southern Cross 31
Cape Dory 30
Tartan 30
Baba 30
Pearson Vanguard
Pearson 30
Bristol Channel 28 Pilot Cutter

I'm thinking our hypothetical sailor must count his pennies, and the max budget ready to go is $30,000. With less even better

INDY
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Old 11-06-2010, 16:54   #434
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Pearson Vanguard

Pearson Vanguard
The Vanguard was designed by Cecil Rhodes... and is typical of CCA boats of that
era. I just saw one for sale at $ 10,000. With a displacement of 5 tons she has sufficient carrying capacity for our hypothetical cruiser...

Looking at the attached layout, shows her to be tiller steered, she originally had the atomic 4 engine... but doubtless most you will find today have been repowered, most likely with a 4-108... which is a good engine with great parts availability.

INDY
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Old 11-06-2010, 16:57   #435
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Cape Dory 30

Cape Dory 30
The CD 30 came with both wheel and tiller steering(cutter only). Since only the
cutter rig makes sense in a boat of this size, we'll discuss only that model.

Displacement is 5 tons, again suitable for our hypothetical cruiser.

The boat came with a Volvo Diesel, which is a good engine, with difficult to obtain, and very expensive parts. Try to find one that has been repowered with something else.


Available used at $ 15-20 K for one built in the 70s

A very good boat..

INDY
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