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Old 08-06-2010, 06:01   #406
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Originally Posted by Springbok View Post
Most of the books being quoted to read are pretty dated. For a more recent update purchase CRUISING WITH MARK by NICOLE.
Clyde
One we will all be awaiting

Yeah I have noticed that. Have the modern cruisers forgotten how to write? Or are they just not done cruising yet - still "compiling the data"? I guess the magazines always have plenty of articles from "out there" but a lot of them seem to be written for a different audience (our boat is unlikely to have anything that could be called "Staff" for example, unless we substantially upgrade the kid's allowance).
I'll pull out one of our books for an evening read, thinking, "Wow, they did all that for $40?" then the other side of my brain kicks in and I realize, "Sure, but they did in 1963." (I read them anyway, because otherwise my husband starts suggesting I get to the side of the shelf with titles like "How to MacGyver Your Alternator in 476 Easy Steps.")
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Old 08-06-2010, 06:24   #407
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One we will all be awaiting

Yeah I have noticed that. Have the modern cruisers forgotten how to write? Or are they just not done cruising yet - still "compiling the data"?


No they are still cruising on 500.00 a day and don't wanna come back to sit and write another book.

(I read them anyway, because otherwise my husband starts suggesting I get to the side of the shelf with titles like "How to MacGyver Your Alternator in 476 Easy Steps.")
I love Mcgyver! Couldn't think of anyone else to cruise with. If I had him on board I would write the definitive book on how to cruise on 250.00 a day.
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Old 08-06-2010, 07:04   #408
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- - Sorry Randyonr3 - you are dead wrong on that statement! I have not been back in the States in 6 years and am living on my sailboat in the Caribbean - NOT on land. I get shipments of things from my sister in Florida every few months and what I said works yesterday, today and tomorrow.
No, I'm not wrong, and you might find that in the Caribbean, in the area you are in the postal system works fine, in that area...BUT, Trying to get something throu Mexico, central america or the south pacific is much different..

For that mater, I just got a message a few minutes ago by e-mail that a Spinnaker I just sent to Randy Hines, another member of CF, is stopped in customs......and its going to Canada from the US...
Chances are it will go thru fine, but, you cant count on the postal service, or common crarrier to get something thru all the time.. I have "mucho" experance with mexico, and you dont ever send anything thru there.. If someone likes what they see, they'll keep it........
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Old 08-06-2010, 07:52   #409
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and why is he trying to use a plate, they are for catamarans only aren't they

Real sailors have a plastic dog bowl, doesn't spill, won't break and easy to wash (rope through handle, over the side it goes).

In fact I can now supply Yacht dog bowls for crew at a very reaonable mark up

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Wow. I've been reading this whole thread/blog for the last few days. Thank heaven it's over. The above is my favorite post. The remainder was so repetitive as to dilute the value of the real gems.

I don't have the sea miles that many of you do but I have some, and I'm older than most and have been around boats the whole way. My take is that the cruiser who needs to get by on $500 a month will never have the wherewithal to refit a seaworthy vessel the way the OP mandates. This economy will create a whole new generation of cuisers. Most will rightly buy what they can, fix the obvious, and hope for the best. Life is a freaking adventure. I say get out and do what you can as soon as you can.
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Old 08-06-2010, 09:52   #410
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in the Caribbean, in the area you are in the postal system works fine, in that area...BUT, Trying to get something throu Mexico, central america or the south pacific is much different..

......
The trick in Turkey is parcel must be claimed within 40 days or it is destroyed. So the customs officialls open everything and anything they think they can make money on they hold till the 40 days are up and they get to keep it.

As for Egypt....
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Old 08-06-2010, 10:44   #411
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Old books

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Originally Posted by Springbok View Post
Most of the books being quoted to read are pretty dated.
Clyde
Yeah they are. But, by the same token they were pretty thorough so it would be hard for someone to write something more up to date that didn't infringe copyrights. What surprises me is that the Letcher, Belcher and Woas books haven't been reissued.
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Old 09-06-2010, 09:03   #412
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How Much Does All This Stuff Weigh???

Conversion of any boat from factory to cruising ready involves adding lots of stuff to the boat. Our micro-budget cruiser will want more tankage than stock, spares, tools, dinghy, and other items. I put this together and came up with the following:
Cruising Gear Weighs More Than You Think !

Earlier we discussed outfitting essentials for the micro-budget cruising boat. Let’s now focus on their mass, and how this will affect the sailing qualities of our target boat.
Ground Tackle

200 Ft of 5/16” Grade 43 Galvanized chain_____240#
2 – 44# Bruce Anchors (Bowers)______________88#
2 – 24# Danforth Standard Anchors (kedges)____48#
1 – Luke 3 Piece Storm Anchor_______________70#
1 – Anchor Roller & Pawl____________________40#
2 – 200Ft Nylon Rodes w/ eyes &thimbles______30#
TOTAL_________________________________516#

Sails

2 - Mains________________________________100#
3 - Staysails______________________________120#
2 – Yankees______________________________150#
1 – Cruising Chute(drifter)____________________40#
TOTAL__________________________________410#


Rigging

250 Ft – 3/8 Stayset X (Halyard spares)_____________12#
300 Ft – 7/16 Stayset(sheet spares)________________18#
40 Ft – ¼” 1x19 Stainless wire( shroud spare) ________40#
Spare Blocks, Thimbles, Sockets, and Turnbuckles_____30#
TOTAL_______________________________________100#
Galley

45 gal Water (Original Tanks)_____________________360#
80 gal Water(additional Tanks)____________________640#
ENGEL Fridge___________________________________45#
LPG Cooker ____________________________________40#
2 – 20# LPG Tanks and fittings______________________50#
Pots, Pans, Dishes, Glasses, Cutlery, Cook Books_)____100#
TOTAL______________________________________1,235#
Dinghy

1 – Chameleon Dinghy with 2 sets of oars & sail rig____200#
TOTAL________________________________________200#
Tools

Assorted Tools_________________________________100#
Assorted Spares________________________________100#
TOTAL________________________________________200#
Navigation

400 Charts_____________________________________150#
Navigational Instruments & Tools__________________100#
Pilots & Cruising Guides___________________________50#
TOTAL________________________________________200#
Engine

35 gal Diesel___________________________________280#
Engine Spares___________________________________50#
TOTAL________________________________________330#
Electrical

2- 120Watt Solar Panels___________________________40#
2- Deep Cycle Batteries___________________________169#
TOTAL_________________________________________209#
Personal

Clothes_______________________________________100#
Books________________________________________200#
Hobbies______________________________________100#
TOTAL________________________________________400#
Grand Total_____________________________________3800#

Were all this gear added to the Southern Cross 31, her displacement would rise from the stock 13,600# to 17,400#, and she would ride about 3:" deep on her lines.

Fortunately, this boat is a double ender, and her sailing qualities are minimally affected by this added mass. Given that Tom Gillmer drew a modest rig for this boat, our cruiser will likely change her main to one with roach, will ensure that her #1 staysail is a 110, and her #1 Yankee fills the space available. He will also add a tri-radial drifter/reacher to help her in light airs.

Many trendy folks, favor go fast/ light displacement boats. Regardless of the boat's factory displacement, the above mass of gear must be accomodated. On many of the Hunters/Beneteaus and other fin keel spade rudder boats, we see rows of jericans lining each side deck, often adding 100 gal of mixed fuel/water or 800# of weight at deck level, in the worst possible place stability wise. Further, these items obstruct access forward, converting the deck into a dodgem arena.

The Pardeys suggested a rule of thumb of a ton of gear per person, and we see from the above analysis, that their proposal is correct.


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Old 09-06-2010, 09:10   #413
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Originally Posted by w1651 View Post
Im planning on walking the islands I visit. Bringing a back pack and some light camping equipment as well as scuba.
I figure if Im in paradise I might as well see it from above and below.
That is a great idea!

Be sure to get the latest Lonely Planet Guide for each country of region of interest.

Yes, they are meant for back packers, AKA budget travelers, which is exactly what any micro-budget cruiser is.

Regarding older books for use as references. The pricing info, and specifics regarding regulations will certainly be dated, which is why I suggest the Lonely Planet Guides. But details of harbour approaches, and landmarks, and boat specifics have changed but little.

INDY
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Old 09-06-2010, 09:20   #414
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Originally Posted by Mariness View Post
Yep we have that one, and her other as well...can't remember the name right now, something about Brazil? Read both, and the Pardeys, etc. In lieu of DOING IT, for the moment we are just reading about doing it. (AKA, "planning" and "research".) Plus all the magazines we can find, since a lot of the books are getting a bit outdated.


This sounds good ... if I can convince certain people to agree. Hubby is NOT a camper, so I've got my work cut out for me on that one.


What do/did you teach? I taught math, also held certificate for social-sciences. J used to teach math before switching to physics. Any call for any of those out there? Around here they "always" need math & science.
At the beginning of my career, I was certified to teach Math and Science. At that time I taught Chemistry, Advanced Biology, and Physics. Once I finished my Doctorate, I shifted into industry and was trained on the job as a chemical engineer. I taught engineering in China, and am teaching Chemistry here in the USVI.

Unfortunately, most professionals will have a hard time negotiating the workpermit route, and must do so. Skilled Tradesmen can often work under the table, and common labor(waitresses & bartenders) do as well.

The easiest places to ply the teaching trade are Korea(watch out for scams) and China., UNLESS you are from a commonwealth country. If you want to teach somewhere, you have a great deal of planning to do, including if you want to teach at an international school. I did teach one year at such a school, and found that they preferred, and paid generously for folks hired at the annual fests back home, even though those people quite often did not stay, because they could not fit in to the host country's culture. Things are not much simpler for medical personnel... It took us our entire gig in China to find a country where Natalia could practice medicine, and to land the job, and that was a 3 year period.

The teaching skill in most demand outside the OECD is English. Native speakers, who can teach conversational english are in demand.

INDY
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Old 09-06-2010, 09:26   #415
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The basic 2400 calories a day can be as low as $2.50 a day per person, then add the prep-process the food such as cooking, soap, etc. The average is over $8 a day. $150 is not sustainable. As to boat maintenance if the standing rigging is older than 8 years you are taking a substantial risk sailing. If your sails are over 8 years old they may work but not very well. For $500 you may be just “exist-ting” but not cruising. A few years ago I sailed from Hamilton to Nassau, we fished all the time, we caught one mackel, and it did not taste good. Sometimes catching fish will be OK but you cannot count on it.

Look up prisoners food cost and calories/cost diet, or order a new set of standing rigging for a 40 foot sailboat and there goes the budget for the next three years. I have been to a couple of places where you can feed yourself on dollar a day, but not on a boat.
You make some very valid points, which I have made previously.

The boat must be no larger than 34 ft.
The boat must be refurbished before departure. Note that in the Checklist I specifically recommended inspection, refurbishment, and/or replacement of old standing rigging. Your point regarding more than 8 years old certainly could apply to rigging using swaged terminals, which is why I recommend closed spelter sockets, where the wire is metallurgically bonded with Zinc .
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Old 09-06-2010, 09:34   #416
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Regarding Food costs....

You asserted that food costs $ 8 per day or $ 240 per month...

Well...

That depends.......

Upon what you are buying.....

If you choose a diet high in legumes(beans, peas, lentils) instead of meat, and one high in
vegetables and fruit, with carbohydrates coming from rice, homemade pasta, and homemade bread, rolls, and crackers. you most certainly can reduce this a great deal, even in the USA.

If you leave the USA, and particularly if you can wean your self away from the high cost areas such as the West Indies, and the Riviera, you can do even better.

The micro-budget cruiser, must have an efficient galley, in which it is enjoyable to create meals from basic components. He must wean himself away from canned soft drinks and make his own drinks from locally available cheap ingredients. This is what we do...

For example, today's menu is:

Breakfast_________oatmeal with butter and milk

Lunch Barbequed Beans with flat bread and salad and Tea

Dinner Potato Leek Soup.and tea

INDY
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Old 09-06-2010, 09:41   #417
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Budget Revisited....

Our annual cruising budget now is:
Maintenance and Repair__$ _970
Provisions______________ $ 2,400 ( diet high in legumes,meals cooked aboard)
Entry & Clearance Fees ___$ __150
Fuel ___________________$ __100 ( LPG for galley stove )
Mooring & Marina Fees___ $ __ -0-
Communication __________$ _200
Excursions/ Entertainment _$ _800
Navigation_______________$_700
Insurance, Boat___________$__-0-
Insurance Health__________$ 240 (money put in rainy day fund)
Souvenirs________________ $ 150
Clothing and Sundries _____$ 290

TOTAL __________________$ 6,000


Note that Provisions make up 40% of the budget, and are the largest single item.
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Old 09-06-2010, 12:20   #418
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@goprisko - I was intrigued by the weight outfitting data. Thanks for taking the time to post it.

I'm trying hard to keep the weight down to 3000# but that may not be possible. I once saw a couple outfitting a boat and front and center was a scale. They weighed everything, and in my ignorance, I thought it a bit anal. But they were thinking way ahead of me. It'll be interesting to see what the "basic" load is on my boat, but I doubt I'll have much discretion if I want it seaworthy and navigable.
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Old 09-06-2010, 13:26   #419
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@goprisko - I was intrigued by the weight outfitting data. Thanks for taking the time to post it.

I'm trying hard to keep the weight down to 3000# but that may not be possible. I once saw a couple outfitting a boat and front and center was a scale. They weighed everything, and in my ignorance, I thought it a bit anal. But they were thinking way ahead of me. It'll be interesting to see what the "basic" load is on my boat, but I doubt I'll have much discretion if I want it seaworthy and navigable.
The major point of my analysis, is outfitting any boat will materially increase it's displacement. If you choose a light displacement boat most of that mass will lie above the design VCG, reducing stability, which generally, is marginal for light displacement boats, if you put much of that mass on deck, you will greatly reduce stability, perhaps critically. This is one reason so many owners of such boats don't want to do passages, and go on and on about extremely fast passages to avoid storms.
They know their boats are no longer seawotrhy.

Further, many place great store in sail area / displacement ratios... Forgetting that adding 2 tons to a boat displacing 4 tons increases the displacement by 50%, and changes the ratio to a greater degree than adding 2 tons to a boat displacing 7 tons.

Regarding the Southern Cross 31 sail area/ displacement ratio, Gillmer designed the boat for passage making. not for afternoon sailing in the Chesapeake or Santa Barbara Channel. The boat is expected to have light air sails of nylon for use in winds of less than 10 knots. These sails are easily handled, have sheets of small diameter line to reduce load on the clew, and stow in their bag by being stuffed.

This is the same sail management system we use on Pegasus.

INDY
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Old 09-06-2010, 14:39   #420
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@goprisko - I was intrigued by the weight outfitting data. Thanks for taking the time to post it.

I'm trying hard to keep the weight down to 3000# but that may not be possible. I once saw a couple outfitting a boat and front and center was a scale. They weighed everything, and in my ignorance, I thought it a bit anal. But they were thinking way ahead of me. It'll be interesting to see what the "basic" load is on my boat, but I doubt I'll have much discretion if I want it seaworthy and navigable.
I'm so behind the loop here.
I was wondering where do you put all the spares on your boat. Back to Stowage. AGAIN!
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