Cruisers Forum

Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 10 votes, 4.10 average. Display Modes
Old 04-06-2010, 12:18   #361
Long Range Cruiser
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in New York
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,180
Images: 25
Originally Posted by mintyspilot View Post
I'm very taken with the Hunter Legend 33,
Nice looking boat. Amazing it can fit 6 berths.


Notes on a Circumnavigation.

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline  
Old 04-06-2010, 17:59   #362
Registered User
tager's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Vashon, WA
Boat: Haida 26', 18' Sea Kayak, 15' kayak, 6.5' skiff, shorts
Posts: 837
You might try this.

You can fool some of the fish all of the time (herring), or all of the fish some of the time (luck), but you can't fool all the fish all the time (fishing stories) .

tager is offline  
Old 05-06-2010, 02:49   #363
Registered User
mintyspilot's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 834
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Nice looking boat. Amazing it can fit 6 berths.

Yeh, that made me laugh. It's really 2 at the front, two at the back and two slumming it in the saloon, but for me and the missus 4 berths is plenty. It does seem nicely laid out and I'm making a point of going to the London Boat Show next January to have a good look around as many boats as possible.
mintyspilot is offline  
Old 05-06-2010, 03:10   #364
Long Range Cruiser
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in New York
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,180
Images: 25
Originally Posted by mintyspilot View Post
I'm making a point of going to the London Boat Show next January to have a good look around as many boats as possible.
Boat shows are good to see whats going on and comparing many boats easily. Also good for seeing the latest gagets and hoping they will come down in price soon. Finally its good for some 'loss leader' specials in equipment.

One day I wanna go to as big boat show with a wallet bulging and knock up a couple of boat builders and do a deal!
Notes on a Circumnavigation.

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline  
Old 05-06-2010, 12:55   #365

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
Originally Posted by Aaza Dana View Post
Hummous and arabic bread - yum yum. With cucumbers and sweetcorn. Delicious. Also, sarge bread (looks like pancakes, never seen it outside Kuwait) stuffed with tons of salad. Just found a recipe for chapattis - gonna go practise now. Flour and water with a drop of oil - how difficult can that be....??

Sushi - yep, made some the other day, but although it's way cheaper, it's just never as good as at the sushi bar! My crab/salmon/avocado salad is getting there though - I've figured out to use a potato peeler to make those really thin slices of cucumber!
Did you know that both the Russians and the Arabs can make salads from virtually anything?


Bean Salad
Beet Salad
Cabbage Salad
Tomato salad
Cucumber salad
Pickle Salad
Rice Salad
Greek Salad
Caesar Salad
Waldorf Salad

The list goes on and on......

Thanks for your suggestions..

goprisko is offline  
Old 05-06-2010, 12:57   #366

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
Originally Posted by capt_douglas View Post
Having had my personal "dog bowl" I've migrated to one of those big mouth mugs with a cover. Food stays warmer longer, the lid keeps the salt water out, and if you buy a good one, most of the stuff'll still be in the mug after you recover from that unintentional jibe, knockdown, or "fish on!". And you don't always need a spoon.

So if you want to cruise on the inexpensive:
- prepare the boat for inexpensive cruising where the items are the cheapest
- know and buy what you need, if you've got money or space left, buy what you want
- stay out of marinas
- plan ahead to stay on the hook and have the proper gear
- avoid the high priced areas or areas that go crazy during season
- simplify the boats systems
- the average cruiser spends 80% of their time on the hook
- live within your power requirements, install wind/water/solar power generation
- provision simply, avoid brand loyalty if you can, buy locally
- develop interests that cost little money but are spiritually rewarding
- waste as little as possible
- don't neglect annual maintenance
- don't neglect regular maintenance
- supplement your income, be creative, work for cheap, volunteer time locally
- if you can't afford to buy it twice, buy the better one at the higher price once
- be smart about spares, carry what you need, not what the marine store/service department says
- get copies of maintenance, parts, and operating manuals for every system you have on board
- don't be afraid to ask for help, you can get some excellent info and develop lifelong relationships

You're going to have to buy this stuff, so plan on it. Electronics are relatively cheap but you don't need all the instruments. If one item will do double (or triple) duty, then give it serious consideration (laptop vs chart plotter). You need a VHF but you don't need SSB (and can get by with a general coverage, shortwave radio). Taking pictures is a given, so maybe a camera that's water resistant is better than the cheaper one that's water sensitive requiring you to buy a housing. And if the camera does video, you're ahead of the game. Get an EPIRB. Get and wear a sailing harness. If you're going offshore then give a serious consideration to a life raft (and abandon ship bag).

KISS. It's obvious but the fewer items that you have on board the less that can go wrong and the lower the costs of repair. Maintain your systems as best you can. Chances are good that sometime your refrigeration will fail so don't put all your provisions into frozen food.

Be efficient. If you're heating the oven for bread, why not fill the oven with either more bread, a casserole, or other baking items. Use a pressure cooker if you can. If you've made too much pasta, then consider having leftovers before the pasta goes bad. Consider walking or bicycling instead of taking a taxi. Group up for rides to events, shopping, or tourism. Consider fans, LED lights, a windscoop, solar showers, as opposed to a genset, running the engine, or being at the dock.

Buy smart. Case lots of small cans can be more expensive than institution sized, but are far easier to store and if one goes bad, you're out a few ounces vs pounds. Don't forget treats (cupcakes, canned treats, candles, cards). You can never have too many zip lock bags or collapsible plastic containers. Develop a menu so you'll have a good idea of what to buy. If you've got family or guests aboard, it's good to have a "don't like that" list too. Take care of yourself. Take multivitamins because there will be times when you might not be getting a balanced meal. Develop meals that are easy to prepare and eat for those times when the weather's not cooperating. Don't forget tools, filters, and other consumables. Don't forget cruising guides, a few paper charts, and some navigation and safety gear, and a better than average medical kit.

Take small steps. Go out for a week or two, come home and rethink. Go out for a month and do the same. Practice anchoring, picking up a mooring, cooking underway. Practice heaving to. Spend a week on the hook. Change oil, bleed the fuel system, practice sail repair before leaving (In my case, the first time was always the toughest for those.). Do things locally that you either feel you need more practice in or need some professional guidance.

If this is your first foray in cruising, do some basic planning, then do the research. That way you'll have an idea of what each anchorage will cost, where the bargains are, and what there is to do. You can always come home and rethink or reprovision. Life happens and you shouldn't have a fixed in stone itinerary, so have a treat fund for those. Talking to other cruisers with boats like yours for hints and tips. Join SSCA or CCA and read their bulletins for the most current info.

Do you homework knowing that it's not pass/fail and the answers you get may not be what you planned. Be flexible. Your monthly costs are your monthly costs and there is little correlation between your requirements than the boat next to you in the anchorage.

The only way you're going to know what it costs is to go cruising. That said, knowing your current food and entertainment requirements can give you an idea. If you use 50% higher numbers you'll have a ballpark idea of costs for items brought in to the place you're currently at. Local items may be considerably less and provide better memories and stories.

Almost everyone here can provide info on someone who's cruised on XX-YY/month. But the folks that do that aren't you, don't have your interests, may have cruised in the past or in different waters, or have different requirements. But you've gotta start somewhere...
Lots of very good advice, Thank you Very Much !

goprisko is offline  
Old 05-06-2010, 13:01   #367

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
Crusiing Preparation ReVisited....

As Capt. Douglas mentions above, it is essential the boat be "well Found" and the best place to do that is where supplies and equipment are "cheap".

Having refitted Pegasus in various countries around the world, there is nothing like home... Your home country is the best place to fit out your boat. You know the suppliers, how business works, there are no currency conversion issues, and you know the way to get a place to work on the boat at the cheapest price.

The only thing missing is a concise metric of "well found" the following checklist answers this. If you follow it, your vessel will be "well found".
Am I ready Checklist

If you can answer YES to every item on this list, your boat is ready to go cruising and so are you…

All through hulls removed, inspected, replaced as necessary, and rebidded
Rudder removed, all bearings inspected , replaced as necessary and rebidded and refastened
All sea cocks removed, inspected, replaced or lubricated as necessary, rebidded and refastened.
Cutlass Bearing replaced and rebidded.
Stuffing box removed, inspected, replaced as necessary, repacked with Teflon packing, reinstalled with new hose and hose clamps.
Propellor shaft removed, inspected, replaced, and aligned as necessary.
Propellor removed, inspected and replaced as necessary.
Mast step inspected, and refurbished as necessary.
Bonding straps inspected and replaced as necessary, with all connections refurbished.
Keel bolts if present removed and replaced with new ones properly bedded.
Bulkheads inspected to ensure all are properly bonded to the hull, and rebonded as necessary..
Hull deck joint refastened and rebedded or sealed with multiple layers of GRP tape.

Hull deck joint refastened and rebedded or sealed with multiple layers of GRP tape.
All stanchion bases, including those for the pulpits and pushpits, removed, inspected, and rebedded and refastened to foundations rebuilt as necessary so the core in cored decks is hardwood, and the fastenings go entirely through the deck and into backing plates at least as large as the bases themselves.
All cleats removed, refastened and rebedded.
All portlights removed, refastened and rebedded.
All hatches removed, refastened and rebedded.
All track removed, refastened, and rebedded.
All winches removed, serviced, refastened, and rebedded.
All hinges and other deck hardware not mentioned before, removed, replaced as necessary, refastened and rebedded.

All cleats removed, refastened and rebedded.
All wiring removed, and replaced.
All Mast steps removed, inspected, replaced as necessary, rebedded and refastened.
All tracks removed, refastened, and rebedded.
All winches removed, serviced, refastened, and rebedded.
All tangs removed, refastened and rebedded.
All spreaders removed, refastened, and rebedded.
All lights removed, serviced, refastened, and rebedded.
Gooseneck, disassembled, inspected for wear and serviced or replaced as necessary.

All cleats removed, refastened and rebedded.
All tracks removed, refastened, and rebedded.
All winches removed, serviced, refastened, and rebedded.
All tangs removed, refastened and rebedded.

All wire older than 10 years reterminated or replaced.
Bobstay if present, replaced.
All rigging pins older than 10 years, replaced.
All rigging screws of closed type, or of stainless construction replaced with open barrel bronze screws.
All toggles, shackles, link pins, link plates, diamond plates, and other rigging hardware, removed, inspected, and replaced as necessary, with all pins or bolts replaced outright.
All tangs removed, inspected, replaced as necessary, rebedded and refastened.
All chainplates removed, inspected, replaced as necessary, rebedded and refastened.

Running Rigging:

All halyards and sheets which show hardening from the sun replaced.
All blocks removed, serviced as necessary, and or replaced, including masthead sheaves…
All winches removed, serviced, refastened, and rebedded.
Chain regalvanized, and end for ended as necessary, or replaced as necessary.
Pawl installed or serviced.
Anchor chock modified so it is closed, or can be closed.
Anchor roller removed, inspected, refastened and rebedded as necessary.
Spare anchors properly chocked on deck and below.

All sails opened, inspected, replaced if they fail the poke test, restitched, patched, and cleaned as necessary.
All sails set to verify sheet leads and fit.

Rudder removed, bearings, or gudgeons and pintles, removed, inspected rebedded, and replaced as necessary.
Cable for cable steering replaced.
Tiller removed, inspected, and replaced as necessary. Spare tiller stowed together with spare tiller fitting for rudder stock.
Hydraulic steering inspected for leaks, which are fixed, generally via replacement of defective components. Cylinder rebuilt. Helm pump rebuilt, control valves removed, inspected and refurbished or replaced as necessary..

Cooker opened, inspected and defective parts replaced as necessary.
Sink, removed, inspected for excessive thinning due to corrosion, replaced as necessary, rebedded and refastened.
All plumbing replaced with new.
All pumps removed, inspected, and refurbished or replaced as necessary.
Insulative capacity of ice box or refrigerator assessed via the ice block test, with insulation replaced if test fails
Refrigeration system inspected, checked for leaks, and refurbished as necessary.

Fire extinguishers serviced and mounted in strategic locations.
Flares examined, and sufficient purchased which are in date, to meet regs.
PFDs inspected and sufficient maintained aboard to provide each crew member with a serviceable unit.
All PFDs equipped with strobes, and whistle
Bosn’s chair inspected and refurbished as necessary.
Safety harnesses, inspected and refurbished as necessary.
Throwable PFD, (horseshoe ring, lifering, lifesling) inspected, strobe verified as working, line verified to be in good condition, and mounting verified to be solid and to permit rapid access and deployment.

All zincs removed, inspected, and replaced as necessary.
Impellor replaced.
Oil changed.
Compression checked, and engine problems assessed; if check fails, defective items refurbished as needed.
Injectors refurbished.
Inspect engine mounts, refurbish or replaced as necessary.
Injection pump refurbished as necessary

Oil changed.
Operation checked, with special emphasis on slippage, if found, replace clutches.
If leaks are found, replace seals.
If rear seal leaks, suspect improper shaft alignment.
Align propeller shaft.

Navigation skills appropriate for the voyage have been acquired via coursework or self study, including coastwise piloting, dead reckoning, speed estimation, deck log entries, celestial navigation, weather prediction, and tide and current prediction.
Pilots and pubs covering the area to be cruised are aboard, including:
BA pilots covering the area, cruising guides covering the area.
Admiralty List of Radio Signals(Vol 3(2) for the Americas for met broadcasts
Admiralty Light List for the area
Admiralty tide tables for the area.
Nautical Almanac covering the time of the cruise
Charts or facsimiles thereof covering the area to be cruised.
Duttons or Bowditch
Plotting sheets
Weems Plotter
Log book
Hand held VHF or VHF
Grundig or similar HF receiver.

Sufficient spare parts are aboard to maintain the critical systems of the ship at sea, including:
Spare line
Spare blocks
Sail repair kit
Engine oil and filters
Fuel filters
Spare set of Injectors, with copper washers and torque wrench.
Cable cutter capable of cutting the largest rigging wire on the boat, and the anchor chain.
Hack saw
Drill and bits
Screw drivers
Come along
A spare piece of rigging wire sufficiently long to replace the longest stay on the boat, with one end terminated, and a staylock or other field installable terminal for the other end.
Hose clamps
Hose fittings

Sufficient water storage capacity in tanks, jugs, or bladders available below decks to provide each crew member with 1 gallon per day over the longest passage envisioned.

A hard dinghy of sufficient size to carry the entire crew and emergency provisions, including water, and emergency navigation equipment, including sextant and compass and charts, with a set of oars for each man, and preferably with a sailing rig, to provide means of escape in the event of sinking, and assess to shore when in port.
Chocks and padeyes, and ratchet tiedowns to secure the dinghy on deck.

goprisko is offline  
Old 05-06-2010, 13:05   #368

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
Cruising Costs Revisited......

Earlier I did an analysis of cruising costs in various ways, Unfortunately, the forum
mangled my posting. I think I have fixed it now...

Thus far we have outfitted the Southern Cross 31 with the following:
Full suit of sails __________________________________$ 3500
Anchors and gear______________________________________$ 1600
Galley including cooker, sink and hand pump _______________$ 2000
Head including LAVAC, sink, and plumbing _______________$ 1020
Standing Rigging, wire, turnbuckles, sockets________________$ 2116
Running Rigging__________, rope, winches, blocks__________$ 3900
New bottom paint, including haulout______________________$ 1000
LED Lamps, fridge, battery and Distribution Panel____________$ 2500
Dinghy including oars and sailing rig (Danny Green Chameleon)_$1000

TOTAL_____________________________________________ $ 18,316
We have assumed that the hull and deck have been examined and all open items from the checklist are dealt with.

From the above, we can see what a deal a boat in good condition represents.. For example, the boat available in Luperon, DR is bringing only $ 12.000 for the hull, deck, mast, engine, and interior.

ITEM____________Dia____Feet___Price_/_ft__TOTAL____LIFE______Annual_Operating_Cost_____ TOTAL
Main_Halyard______0.31____60_____1.09____$65.40___ __10_________$6.54__________
Staysail_Halyard____0.31___55_____1.09_____$59.95_ ____10_________$6.00__________
Yankee_Halyard____0.31___65_____1.09_____$70.85___ __10_________$7.09__________
Main_Sheet_______0.44____50_____1.33_____$66.50___ __10_________$6.65__________
Yankee_Sheet_____0.44____60_____1.33_____$79.80___ __10_________$7.98__________
Staysail_Sheet_____0.44____48_____1.33_____$63.84_ ____10_________$6.38__________
Preventer_________0.44____35_____1.33_____$46.55__ ___10_________$4.66__________
TOTAL______________________________ ___$452.89_______________$45.29________________$45 2.89
Snatch_Blocks_____________2_____139_____$278.00___ __40_________$6.95__________
MastHead_Sheaves_________3______12_____$36.00_____ _40_________$0.90__________
Preventer_Blocks___________2______50_____$100_____ __40__________$2.50__________
Mainsheet_Triple_Block______1_____150_____$150.00_ ____40_________$3.75__________
Mainsheet_Double_Block_____1______70_____$70.00___ ___40_________$1.75__________
Anderson_12_St_Winch______4_____538____$2,152.00__ __40________$53.80__________
Anderson_18_St_Winch______2_____604____$1,208.00__ __40________$30.20__________
TOTAL________________________________$3,894.00____ _40________$97.35_______________$3,894.00

Lowers__________0.25______48_____4.61_______$221.2 8______20_____$11.06__________
intermediates_____0.25______48_____4.61_______$221 .28______20_____$11.06__________
uppers__________0.25______60______4.61_______$276. 60______20_____$13.83__________
staysail_stay______0.25______30_____4.61_______$13 8.30______20_____$6.92__________
jib_stay__________0.25______40_____4.61_______$184 .40______20_____$9.22__________
back_stay________0.25______40_____4.61_______$184. 40______20_____$9.22__________
Turnbuckles______0.375_____11______70________$770. 00______40_____$19.25__________
Poured_Sockets___0.25_____24_______5_________$120. 00_____40_____$3.00
TOTAL_____________________________________$2,116.2 6___________$83.58_____________$2,116.26

LEDs and ENGLE Fridge

ITEM_____________________________________Size_____ ____#_____Price /ea_____TOTAL_____LIFE____Annual Operating Cost
LED Lamps______________________________________5 watt_______5_______30________$150.00______20______ ___$7.50
Masthead Tricolor, anchor with automatic photodiode_____5 watt_______1______341________$341.00______20______ ___$17.05
Battery Switch___________________________________200 amp_____1_______83_________$83.00_______40________ _$2.08__________
DC Circuit Breaker Panel with volt and amp meters__5 branch circuits__1______$423.00_____$423.00_______40_____ ___$10.58__
Two Conductor Tinned Marine Cable-interior lighting_____12 guage____25_____1.4__________$35.00_______40______ ___$0.88__________
Three Conductor Tinned Marine Cable- mast lighting_____14 guage____40_____1.4__________$56.00_______40______ ___$1.40__________
Solar Panel______________________________________60 Watt_____2______120________$240.00_______20_______ _$12.00__________
Solar Panel Controller_______________________________10 amp_____1______90_________$90.00_______10_________ $9.00__________
ENGLE Fridge_______________________________________45 qt_____1_____800________$800.00________7________$1 14.29__________
Gp 31 deep cycle battery__________________________115 amp hr____2_____130________$260.00________7_________$3 7.14__________
Annual Operating Cost__________________________________________________________$2,478.00_________________$211.90__ ___$2,478.00
Cooke_________________________r_____2 Burnerw/joven_____1_____900_______$900.00_______20________ _$45.00__________
Galley Sink_______________________________Single________1 ______140______$140.00________40_________$3.50____ ______
Galley Pump_________________________Fynspray WS80_____1______250_______$250.00_______40________ _$6.25__________
Seacock, thruhull hose and clamps________Marelon fittings_____1______160______$160.00________20____ _____$8.00__________
LPG Tanks, regulator, valves, and piping___2- 20# Al Tanks_____2______160______$320.00________20_______ _$16.00__________
LPG Regulator____________________________regulator____ __1_______30_______$30.00________10_________$3.00_ _________
LPG Shutoff Valve - Parker Hannifin___________Stainless______1_______80______ _$80.00________40_________$2.00__________
Stainless tube and swagelok fittings___________Stainless______1______120______ $120.00________40_________$3.00__________
TOTAL_____________________________________________ ________________$2,000.00__________________$86.75_ _____$2,000.00
LAVAC WC with Henderson Pump_________________________1______700______$700. 00________40________$17.50__________
Seacock, thruhull hose and clamps________Marelon fittings_____2______160_____$320.00________20_____ ____$16.00__________
TOTAL_____________________________________________ ________________$1,020.00__________________$33.50_ ____$1,020.00
Ctuising Chute_________________________________________1___ __700_____$700.00_________20_________$35.00_______ ___
Main______________________________________________ ___2_____350_____$700.00_________10_________$70.00 __________
Yankee #1____________________________________________1___ __350_____$350.00_________10_________$35.00_______ ___
Staysail #1____________________________________________1___ __250_____$250.00_________10_________$25.00_______ ___
Yankee #2____________________________________________1___ __350_____$350.00_________10_________$35.00_______ ___
Staysail #2____________________________________________1___ __250_____$250.00_________10_________$25.00_______ ___
Trysail___________________________________________ ____1_____200_____$200.00__________20________$10.0 0__________
Storm Staysail_________________________________________1 _____200_____$200.00_________20_________$10.00____ ______
__________________________________________________ _______________$3,000.00___________________$245.00 _____$3,000.00
Chain_________________ 5/16" hiTest__________200___3_____$600.00_________40________$15.00_____
Luke Storm Anchor_________70#________________1__700_____$700.00________40________$17.50_____
Bower Anchors__________44# bruce_____________2___90_____$180.00________40_________$4.50_____
Kedges_______________25# danforth____________2___60_____$120.00________40_________$3.00_____
__________________________________________________ __$1,600.00_______________$40.00

Vertical Axis Trim Tab___________________________________1___200_____ __$200.00________40_________$5.00__________
__________________________________________________ ________________$200.00___________________$5.00___ _____$200.00
Cushions__________________________________________ ___4___100______$400.00_________20________$20.00
__________________________________________________ _______________$400.00___________________$20.00___ _____$400.00
Boat hooks, fire extinguishers, etc_________________________$1000 ________10_____$100.00______$100.00

Annual Operating Cost____________________________________________$968.36
__________________________________________________ _______________________________________GRAND TOTAL_$15,561.15

Depreciation of Southern Cross 31____________________$80,000.00__New in 1980
__________________________________________________ $25,000.00_Today
__________________________Accumulated Depreciation_=_$55,000.00_period_30_yrs_@_$1,833.3 3per_year_=43.6_years

Now, le\t’s review our depreciation assumptions:
The SC 31 sold for $ 80,000 new in 1980.
Currently a good one is on offer for $ 29,000, and several have sold for $ 24,000, so it would seem that the boat is worth about $ 25,000 in operating condition today, 30 years after it was built, and it has depreciated $55,000 or ~ $ 1800 per year. This means the boat will be fully depreciated at the age of 44 years, ie worthless. We know this is unlikely, given depreciation of this kind of asset generally follows the declining balance method, but this exercise does give us the round estimate of a useful life for the boat and everything on it of 50 years. So we can reasonably estimate the annual cost of the boat we purchase by assuming it will continue to depreciate as it has in the past. I recalculated depreciation for the boat assuming a useful life of 50 years, and a residual of $ 2,500. This gives depreciation for the 31st year at $ 980. This means an allowance of $ 1000 per year for operating cost of this boat will very likely be sufficient. Since the stock SC 31 includes an engine.. the difference between our $980 figure and the $968 figure must be allocated to the engine. The engine will cost us $ 22 per year in operating costs, not including it’s fuel.
THE Southern Cross 31 can be cruised without an engine for about $ 970 per year. The boat as we configured it has slightly worn sails with much life left, has a LAVAC water closet, a Princess two burner LPG stove with oven, renewed standing and running rigging, suitable ground tackle, a dinghy, new bottom paint, and no engine.
Most of this expense is depreciation, but what items should we expect to require replacement during our cruise?
From my experience with this gear we should plan on the following expenses:
Replacement_of_sheets_and_halyards_$450_at_10_year _intervals____=__$_____45/yr
Replacement_of_diaphragm_in_Henderson_pump_$_60_at _5_yrs____=_$______12/yr
Replacement_of_LAVAC_seals_$45_at_10_yrs__________ ___________=_$_______5/yr
New_ENGLE_fridge_$_800_at_7yrs____________________ __________=_$_____110/yr
New_Gp_31_batteries_$_260_at_7_yrs________________ __________=_$_______37/yr
Servicing_of_Winches__annually_$_54_for_service_Ki t_ea_5_yrs_____=_$_______10/yr
Diinghy_oars_______$_140_at_10_yrs________________ __________=_$________15/yr
Ship’s_oar_________$_240_at_10_yrs________________ ___________=$________24/yr
Bottom_paint______$_500_at_5_yrs__________________ __________=$_______100/yr
Topside_paint______$_200_at_5_yrs_________________ ___________=$________40/yr
FynSpray_Pumps___$10_at_2_yrs_(_repl_leathers_)___ _____________=$_________5/yr
Deck_Paint_________$120__at_5_yrs_________________ ___________=$________24/yr
Interior_Paint______$120__at_5_yrs________________ _____________=$________24/yr
Plumbing__________$150__at_10_yrs_________________ ___________=$________15/yr
Wiring____________$_100__at_10_yrs________________ ___________=$________10/yr
Replacement_bulbs___$_200__at_10_yrs______________ ___________=$________20/yr
Regalv_Chain________$_300_at_10_yrs_______________ ___________=$________30/yr
Replace_LPG_Tanks___$360__at__20_yrs______________ ___________=$________36/_yr
Replace_Sails_______$3500_at_10_yrs_______________ ____________=$________350_/yr
TOTAL___________________________________________$9 12 / yr
The balance is allocated to a rainy day fund to cover contingencies.

Using the double declining balance method to depreciate the Southern Cross 31, assuming a residual value of $2,500 for the scrap value of the keel, and fittings, a useful life of 50 years, and a boat that is 30 years old gives $ 980 for depreciation.

From these three independent analyses…
1.depreciation of the critical systems,
2.depreciation of the entire boat,
3.expected repairs and replacements
We get the following:
Depreciation of the whole boat $ 970 / yr
Expected Repairs $ 912 / yr
Depreciation of critical systems $ 1,018 / yr

Note the cluster of values. From this we can conclude that the Southern Cross 31, outfitted per our analysis will cost $ 970 per year to operate.

What about dodgers, cabin heaters, weather cloths, and the myriad other things one can put on a boat? Of most importance, any of these added will increase operating cost. Therefore none of these should be added, unless there is a clear need for it.

What about the Compass, depth sounder, anemometer, and myriad other gadgets one can put on a boat? Any of these will increase operating cost if present. None of these should be added, unless there is a clear need for it. Also, we have relegated all of these devices to the “Navigation” category, precisely because the voyage determines the need and presence of many, if not all of these items. However, we have allocated $ 1000 for these Items, and that amount is covered in the anticipated operating costs shown above.


Configured with an LPG 2 burner stove with oven, LAVAC head, new cushions, new standing rigging, new running rigging, sails in good condition, a homebuilt wind vane, boat hook, fire extinguishers, flares, ENGLE refrigerator, solar panels, batteries, LED interior and navigation lamps, a sailing Chameleon dinghy, oars, bulkhead compass, windex, hand lead, and ground tackle, the Southern Cross 31’s annual operating cost is: $ 952.

Our annual cruising budget now is:
Maintenance and Repair $ 970
Provisions $ 2,400 ( diet high in legumes, all meals cooked aboard)
Entry & Clearance Fees $ 150
Fuel $ 100 ( LPG for galley stove )
Mooring & Marina Fees $ -0-
Communication $ 200
Excursions/ Entertainment $ 800
Navigation $ 700
Insurance, Boat $ -0-
Insurance Health $ 240 (money put in rainy day fund)
Souvenirs $ 150
Clothing and Sundries $ 290

TOTAL $ 6,000
goprisko is offline  
Old 05-06-2010, 13:18   #369

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
Note that in the previous post, I used 3 independent methods of assessing annual boat maintenance costs. Note also that in the analysis by historical expenses, I used my own experience with each and every system mentioned to come to the amount of the expense, and the frequency of expense. The prices were taken from the Current West Marine Web Site.

I also allocated funds in that analysis for paint, varnish, and other consumables necessary to maintain the boat in top condition.

From this we can say with reasonable confidence that the Southern Cross 31, without an engine, can be cruised with a maintenance and repair allowance of $ 970 per year.

And this boat has sufficient amenities to please the lady....

LAVAC head,
Galley Sink, LPG Cooker, ENGLE Fridge
Head Sink
Comfortable setee and bunk cushions.
Adequate water tankatge
Full suit of sails
dinghy with oars and sailing kit
Long oar to propel the boat into and out of harboutrs during calms
Full kit of ground tackle
New running rigging
New standing rigging
Refurbished Blocks
Refastened deck and mast fittings
Refurbished seacocks
New plumbing
New wiring
New switch panel
Solar panels
Deep cycle batteries
LED interior and navigation lamps
Compass, boathook, dividers, weems plotter, hand bearing compass, hand lead, windex
Wind vane self steering

In short, fully equipped and ready to go...
With this budget:
Maintenance and Repair______ $ 970
Provisions _________________$ 2,400 ( diet high in legumes, all meals cooked aboard)
Entry & Clearance Fees ______ $ 150
Fuel _____________________$ 100 ( LPG for galley stove )
Mooring & Marina Fees ______$ -0-
Communication _____________$ 200
Excursions/ Entertainment _____ $ 800
Navigation _________________$ 700
Insurance, Boat _____________$ -0-
Insurance Health ____________$ 240 (money put in rainy day fund)
Souvenirs _________________$ 150
Clothing and Sundries ________ $ 290


goprisko is offline  
Old 05-06-2010, 13:39   #370

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
Old Technology vs New Technology....

The guy on a micro-budget must choose a boat that is strong and seaworthy, and which inspires confidence. The boat will be expected to carry him safely into port come what may.

He must choose gear which is simple, robust, easily repaired if it goes wrong, and for which spares are readily available world wide. Each and every item I recommended above meets this test.

He cannot afford the devastation of losing thousands of dollars of electronics in a lighting strike. He is the insurance company... not Lloyds of London...

He is living on the edge, and everything he invests in must make his life better or soon he will be over the edge and into the abyss..

He cannot afford the cockup neighbors just mentioned....

They bought a 47 ft Leopard catamaran in Florida, The boat was out of charter, and the engines had lots of hours. Rather than refurbishing the old ones, they chose new. The new ones had a different footprint and the vertical distance from the mounting plane to the shaft centerline on the gearbox was different. The yard installed the new engines. Their personnel did not take these differences into consideration. They made the mistake of fastening down the engine before checking the alignment ..... nearly a dozen times !!!!! This turned the stringers into swiss cheese.... The engines came adrift the first time in the Bahamas... why dhey didn't turn back for repaiirs baffles me... but they carried on to the US Virgin Islands..

They lost two props due to vibration... this screams alignment problem to me..
The engines come loose with 10 hours running.
One engine is now out of service.. The other is marginal..
They called for a survey.. filed an insurance claim, hosted the insurance co's surveyor and are waiting for authorization to fix the problem at Nanny Cay Marina in the BVI... They have been waiting since March...

Personnel at boat yards come and go... some of them are good, most are not...

I've had them disregard specific instructions to remove greased bow rollers, so when they solvent wiped the surface they spread a thin film of grease across a wide swath of the bow. Once cured, the paint peeled off beautifully. I had to do the job over, MYSELF.

In NZ Brushstrokes-SeaTech assumed responsibility for topping up my 300 ahe mine car batteries during the paint job.. they put the charger on, and forgot about it. This fried the batteries.. of course, no replacements were available except LifeLine AGMs costing $2000 US!!!!

They also refused to follow the paint schedule I specified.. specifically.
Alumaprep the ground surface until water sheets off,
Alodine 1301 the surface to a golden color
MilSpec eposy anti-corrosive primer on the bare aluminum
Zinc Rich eposy primer to 6 dry mils
High Build epoxy primer to 22 dry mils.
Sanding epoxy primer to undercoat
Urethane topcoat

Instead they appled a single part red lead primer, and epoxy over that. The finish began peeling within a month.

I gave up on the law suit..

I went to New Caledonai and had the copper bottom paint they applied brush blasted off ( the boat is aluminum ). I applied a tiin based ablative paint over the old tin bottom paint. The fouling stopped.. So did the electrolysis.

You cannot depend upon boat yards to perform maintenance. You must do it yourself..

goprisko is offline  
Old 05-06-2010, 13:42   #371

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
The southern Cross 31...

I did a little work on the interior of the SC 31 to make it more livable for
long term cruising...

Note that I moved the head right aft.

I enlarged the galley, changed the chart table to a standup version
and enlarged the saloon area.

The forepeak has been converted to storage.

See what you think

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	SouthernCross31Modified.jpg
Views:	200
Size:	105.9 KB
ID:	16725  
goprisko is offline  
Old 05-06-2010, 14:55   #372
Registered User
s/v Breakaway's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Chesapeake & BVI
Boat: Cal 34 & Pearson 424
Posts: 221
"a homebuilt wind vane" goprisko, can you point me to assembly info for a homebuilt windvane? Thanks
s/v Breakaway is offline  
Old 05-06-2010, 14:58   #373
Armchair Bucketeer
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Originally Posted by s/v Breakaway View Post
"a homebuilt wind vane" goprisko, can you point me to assembly info for a homebuilt windvane? Thanks
DIY Windvane Steering
David_Old_Jersey is offline  
Old 05-06-2010, 17:45   #374
Registered User

Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 110
Originally Posted by goprisko View Post

With this budget:
Maintenance and Repair______ $ 970
Provisions _________________$ 2,400 ( diet high in legumes, all meals cooked aboard)
Entry & Clearance Fees ______ $ 150
Fuel _____________________$ 100 ( LPG for galley stove )
Mooring & Marina Fees ______$ -0-
Communication _____________$ 200
Excursions/ Entertainment _____ $ 800
Navigation _________________$ 700
Insurance, Boat _____________$ -0-
Insurance Health ____________$ 240 (money put in rainy day fund)
Souvenirs _________________$ 150
Clothing and Sundries ________ $ 290


Howdy, well i'm currently doing it on less then $1,000 a month and if i wanted too i could drop that by about $300 pretty quickly. So i'd be nearly $500. Though i haven't got maintenace fees put aside. Thats in a seperate budget thing.

However i think i can save a bit of money on that list. specifically navigation. If you get an ipod touch and a external gps unit. Ipod touch in aus is about $250. External GPS is $75 US. Then price of every single set of maps navionics has available right now (and a brief looks seems to indicate thats world wide coverage) is average price of $14.99 (aus) x 24 (maps regions, they have 32 regions but i'm leaving out the lakes areas and the skiing ones) so $360 aus.

That makes for a total cost of about $700 total (in aus dollars) and thats too have charts for the entire world. Ie thats a one off purchase not a yearly cost as per the above. It also means you have a GPS onboard, and a handheld touchscreen chartplotter. Though if you're using it all day/night be aware it'll probably use an amp or two.
troymclure is offline  
Old 05-06-2010, 18:45   #375
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 275
Troy,are you saying you can download charts for the world to an ipod and use it to navigate,with a GPS?So after you have downloaded the charts you no longer need a wireless connection?

nonam is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cruising on $500 / Month Springbok Dollars & Cents 337 10-11-2010 08:52

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities

Copyright 2002-2015 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:17.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.