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Old 01-01-2012, 19:20   #2656
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
The benefit of AIS is that it immediately gives the position, heading, and speed of the transmitting vessel.
Aah! I see. So AIS is the same sort of thing they use for identifying and tracking aircraft.

Sounds great and it would probably be great to have one on board but personally, I'd be more worried about hitting one of the many containers floating around the oceans rather than the ship carrying them.

Just me
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Old 01-01-2012, 19:25   #2657
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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In China, India and Turkey, they are already using AIS to broadcast channel markers in inland rivers where the currents change the depths rapidly. China in particular is doing AIS and NOT installing markers.
But the channel markers still exist, they've just had AIS added to them, correct?

If that is not correct, then I don't understand how they can put AIS data on blank waterborne realestate. They must have a marker of some sort, that then transmits the AIS data.
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Old 01-01-2012, 19:30   #2658
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Aah! I see. So AIS is the same sort of thing they use for identifying and tracking aircraft.

Sounds great and it would probably be great to have one on board but personally, I'd be more worried about hitting one of the many containers floating around the oceans rather than the ship carrying them.

Just me
Thats fine...

A lot of people will go without it.

A lot of people might choose to go without GPS also.

Its your choice.

But, for this discussion, I personally displayed a method of aqcuiring such gear at a reasonable price. That is all I intended. It can be had even for the low budget cruisers.

There will always be people who don't want technology, or certain gadgets, or whatever... but if you don't want it, don't get it! It's really simple....

I'm not trying to tell people they can't go without AIS... Unlike the other people here trying to tell us you CAN'T go with AIS!

This is about budget and freedom of choices.
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Old 01-01-2012, 19:30   #2659
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

The one who ran in the middle of the Atlantic against a passing ship was Henk de Velde, a very well known but often unlucky Dutch singlehander.
He Ran with his cat of that time, called Zeeman, while he was dozing or sleeping, broadside against a Russian freighter.
He collided rather hard and bruised himself badly - even broke something.
The Russians took him aboard and somewhat later a few Portuguese fisherman brought his catamaran to shore.
He told the newspapers that he had hit a floating container, but that was not true.
I had the chance to see the boat after the collision and both the bows above the waterline were heavenly dented as there were some cracks at the crossbeams. Something that does not happen when you run against a floating object. Anyway, later on I heard from Russian friends that my assumption was correct.
The one-in-a-million accident happened nonetheless. There is always something to say. The Russian freighter hadn' t seen him coming. The plywood boat, though big, didn't give a good echo, if at all.

I have a steel boat which gives a splendid echo as will do most steel yachts, but the FRP ones are sometimes hard to detect.

Another story is that I sailed on a schooner from M'Diq to Gib at night when we saw a small blip, steady on our course. When we lighted the searchlight we saw a little wooden fishingboat, Mediterranean typ, small - 4-5 mtrs, floating. The men in the boat did not move. We took him out and saw that he was stinged by a weaver fish. We turned around and brought him to Ceuta.
This small boat gave a visible blip that we could see well. It did not mix up with the usual clutter.

Tell me what is wisdom .......
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Old 01-01-2012, 19:32   #2660
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Aah! I see. So AIS is the same sort of thing they use for identifying and tracking aircraft.

Sounds great and it would probably be great to have one on board but personally, I'd be more worried about hitting one of the many containers floating around the oceans rather than the ship carrying them.

Just me

Then look into RFID tracking
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Old 01-01-2012, 19:55   #2661
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

If you have a modern chartplotter, AIS will let you call boats by their names, and those other boats can see your boat's name on their screens.

West Marine AIS-1000 Class B Send and Receive AIS Transponder - YouTube

It might cost some money upfront, but there isn't a monthly fee associated with it, so it is something that I would look at getting.

The only downside I see is that the cities and municipalities can see who is out at anchor and start charging people.
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Old 01-01-2012, 20:00   #2662
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
But the channel markers still exist, they've just had AIS added to them, correct?

If that is not correct, then I don't understand how they can put AIS data on blank waterborne realestate. They must have a marker of some sort, that then transmits the AIS data.
No, there is nothing on the water at all. A shore-side station is merely transmitting the location and description of the marker (obstruction, whatever)
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Old 01-01-2012, 20:06   #2663
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

As far as AIS goes, i would like to take this opportunity to thank those three Sailboats (if they come here that is) that had their AIS Transponders on when we where transiting Bass Strait last month.

We where towing a construction barge and the total length of tow was 1100m, the wind was blowing 35 to 40 and it was after midnight. We could not see the Sailboatís, who where all between 8 and 15nm miles away and the radar returns where sporadic at best, BUT there AIS info came through with their course and speed beautifully (overlaid on the radar) showing a converging course.

This info allowed us to contact them giving our status and advising them to keep clear, to which they returned a thank you and let us know they had been monitoring us (on there AIS) and adjusted there course's accordingly.

Everyone was safe and happy....
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Old 01-01-2012, 20:07   #2664
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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If you have a modern chartplotter, AIS will let you call boats by their names, and those other boats can see your boat's name on their screens.

West Marine AIS-1000 Class B Send and Receive AIS Transponder - YouTube

It might cost some money upfront, but there isn't a monthly fee associated with it, so it is something that I would look at getting.

The only downside I see is that the cities and municipalities can see who is out at anchor and start charging people.
You can recieve AIS data without transmitting it. That is what the ACR unit (I posted earlier) does. It just listens for AIS data and when it receives it, it displays it on whatever interface you've connected it to (whether its a PC, chartploter, or simple display, doesn't make a difference).

Even if you have a class B (transmitting), you can still turn it off at anchor, if you're that concerned...

(AIS on Wikipedia) Automatic Identification System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 01-01-2012, 20:08   #2665
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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As far as AIS goes, i would like to take this opportunity to thank those three Sailboats (if they come here that is) that had their AIS Transponders on when we where transiting Bass Strait last month.

We where towing a construction barge and the total length of tow was 1100m, the wind was blowing 35 to 40 and it was after midnight. We could not see the Sailboat’s, who where all between 8 and 15nm miles away and the radar returns where sporadic at best, BUT there AIS info came through with their course and speed beautifully (overlaid on the radar) showing a converging course.

This info allowed us to contact them giving our status and advising them to keep clear, to which they returned a thank you and let us know they had been monitoring us (on there AIS) and adjusted there course's accordingly.

Everyone was safe and happy....
AYE! Only has to happen once!
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Old 01-01-2012, 20:29   #2666
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

It is all about risk. It is up to each of us to figure out how to minimize the risk for each passage we undertake. There is no single answer that can be applied to all boats or all situations. But as a general rule, the more visible you make yourself, and the harder you look for the other guy, the better are your chances of not getting rundown.

The reality is that we don't have the power to make every ship turn on its radar, AIS, or even their navigation lights anymore then we can make them stand watch. What we can do is some combination of standing the best watch we can, having visible navigation lights, deploying a radar reflector, detecting their radar signals, displaying their AIS info, use our own radar to detect them, and transmitting AIS signals to alert them of our proximity. And, if all else fails, you can rake their decks and house with a powerful spot light.

It is fortunate for us that on ocean passages the vast majority of sailboats we might encounter are all moving slowly and in generally the same direction. This tends to make for relatively low speed collisions that are unlikely to sink either vessel.

Avoiding collisions at sea, and any resultant loss of life, is a shared responsibility. In lieu of knowledge to the contrary, always assume that you have not been seen and take early action to stay out of trouble. And, one last thing, a vessel has not passed you until he has gone over the horizon. He can always turn around and head right at you just to make sure everything is OK. I've seen it done!

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Old 01-01-2012, 20:37   #2667
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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It is all about risk. It is up to each of us to figure out how to minimize the risk for each passage we undertake. There is no single answer that can be applied to all boats or all situations. But as a general rule, the more visible you make yourself, and the harder you look for the other guy, the better are your chances of not getting rundown.

The reality is that we don't have the power to make every ship turn on its radar, AIS, or even their navigation lights anymore then we can make them stand watch. What we can do is some combination of standing the best watch we can, having visible navigation lights, deploying a radar reflector, detecting their radar signals, displaying their AIS info, use our own radar to detect them, and transmitting AIS signals to alert them of our proximity. And, if all else fails, you can rake their decks and house with a powerful spot light.

It is fortunate for us that on ocean passages the vast majority of sailboats we might encounter are all moving slowly and in generally the same direction. This tends to make for relatively low speed collisions that are unlikely to sink either vessel.

Avoiding collisions at sea, and any resultant loss of life, is a shared responsibility. In lieu of knowledge to the contrary, always assume that you have not been seen and take early action to stay out of trouble. And, one last thing, a vessel has not passed you until he has gone over the horizon. He can always turn around and head right at you just to make sure everything is OK. I've seen it done!

That is a very fair statement. So the question for this thread becomes, how to do this economically?

Go without everything? I don't think so, but thats just my opinion

Or find cheap alternatives?

There is no Black and White in this. No right or wrong. We're just exploring ways to make cruising on a serious budget, a REALITY. Right?

So can we get back onto the discussion of how to save money, with or without AIS?

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Old 01-01-2012, 21:00   #2668
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So in regards to the AIS thing. I have been monitoring but not paying close enough attention. The $150 unit being discussed is a receiver only, yes?

Singapore registered vessels are required to have installed something called a HARTS transponder. This is very much like an aviation trnsponder. It is interrogated and replies to a ping. The usage fee for HARTS is S$120 per year and is included with boat registration.

Owners can install AIS B transceiver as a replacement option and the 120 fee can be disposed of. I've been googlong for about 45 minutes and havent seen an AIS solution less than about $700 that includes the required vhf antenna or antenna splitter.

Any thoughts on "least" expensive ais transceiver install?
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Old 01-01-2012, 21:11   #2669
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

West marine has two models that are $500(ish). WEST MARINE AIS 1000 Class B "Send and Receive" AIS Transponder at West Marine

The newest is smaller, has a bunch more features and does NEMA 2k totally worth $50 more IMHO

EM TRAK MARINE ELECTRONICS B100 AIS Class B Transceiver at West Marine

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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
So in regards to the AIS thing. I have been monitoring but not paying close enough attention. The $150 unit being discussed is a receiver only, yes?

Singapore registered vessels are required to have installed something called a HARTS transponder. This is very much like an aviation trnsponder. It is interrogated and replies to a ping. The usage fee for HARTS is S$120 per year and is included with boat registration.

Owners can install AIS B transceiver as a replacement option and the 120 fee can be disposed of. I've been googlong for about 45 minutes and havent seen an AIS solution less than about $700 that includes the required vhf antenna or antenna splitter.

Any thoughts on "least" expensive ais transceiver install?
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Old 01-01-2012, 21:12   #2670
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

AIS and equipment like the CARD is nice to have but if you plan to cruise in the third world you may be in for a rude awakening. You're lucky if the fishing boats and other traffic are even running lights at night. Radar? Hahaha. I've avoided a collision solely because a crewmember on an unlit boat was smoking a cigarette. If it wasn't for the glow of the cigarette, we'd have never seen him.

Oh, and if you are involved in a collision, remember it's probably going to be regarded as your fault regardless of circumstances. Remember you're the foreigner. The accident would not have occurred if you weren't there. Thus, your fault.
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