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Old 01-01-2012, 09:52   #2641
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pirate Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Getting an AIS unit for US$133.39 plus shipping, handling, etc. or about US$150 is great - but - AIS is probably a very, very low priority item for a "Cruising on $500 per month" person.

- - And what is the big deal about AIS anyway? AIS signals are sent from "large" vessels that are required to have AIS - that's a very small percentage of the vessels out there that can collide and sink you. All the little - and not so little - fishing trawlers, pangas, inter-island freighters, ferries and (biggest of all) other sailing and power boats/yachts are not required to have AIS and don't have AIS (at least on this side of the Atlantic).

- - It's like saying "well, I am protected against tractor-trailer trucks/lorries" but a small Volkswagen or SUV can take you out just as quick and there are a whole lot more of them than giant trucks/lorries.

- - What with gasoline costing US$3.50 and diesel US$4.00 per US gallon, getting fuel for your boat's outboard or tiny diesel is a lot more important, IMHO, than an AIS. And the fuel will allow you to get out of the way of the "big guys" when entering and exiting major harbors or getting out of shipping lanes when the wind dies.

- - So the information about ACR Nauticast AIS is great information especially for those "cruising on $1500 per month" but "thread-drift" from this "super-tight budget" cruising thread.

- - What is in my opinion very relevant is the fact that to cruise on this low a budget will require serious restrictions on when and where and how you will need to plan and operate when in busy or big vessel ocean areas. Just like the mosquito has to learn not to take off and cruise about when a flock of purple martins is passing by - micro-budget cruisers should plan to sail or cross busy shipping areas in the best "visual" conditions and wait if necessary until proper conditions exist.
LMAO.... ahhhh.. sanity..
The only thing AIS does on a small boat is give you one more thing to distract you... and stress you out.. coz that freighter 2 miles away is not on the screen.. is it broken.. Arrrggghhhhh.
Bit like Homeopathic medicine... works great... till you wonder why its not..
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:12   #2642
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Sorry, but there are already places in the world where navigational buoys have been replaced with AIS data, and you can bet that going forward there will be many, many more. AIS is 'optional' right now, and it will be right up until it isn't anymore. Might as well get used to it and have it work __before__ you can say 'ooops, I guess AIS would have saved me from hittinh that"
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:25   #2643
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pirate Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Sorry, but there are already places in the world where navigational buoys have been replaced with AIS data, and you can bet that going forward there will be many, many more. AIS is 'optional' right now, and it will be right up until it isn't anymore. Might as well get used to it and have it work __before__ you can say 'ooops, I guess AIS would have saved me from hittinh that"
So what your saying is.. we needn't look outa the window any more...
the machines will tell us whats happening and what to do...
Will Smith... get yer ass down here...
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:28   #2644
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Man,this here is a great thread for people like me who are still covered in epoxy and dust but with a twinkle in his bloodshot eyes.Really for someone who does not know a celestial from shinola it is enlightening.
goodonyers.
cheers paul.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:35   #2645
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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So what your saying is.. we needn't look outa the window any more...
the machines will tell us whats happening and what to do...
Will Smith... get yer ass down here...
It's not about trading one in for the other (at least not for everybody) It's just a supplemental addition to existing resources (eyes and ears).
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Old 01-01-2012, 16:04   #2646
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Sorry, but there are already places in the world where navigational buoys have been replaced with AIS data, and you can bet that going forward there will be many, many more. AIS is 'optional' right now, and it will be right up until it isn't anymore. Might as well get used to it and have it work __before__ you can say 'ooops, I guess AIS would have saved me from hittinh that"
You are assuming that because a "regulation" exists, people, corporations, etc. will follow it. Not so in most of the world in almost any field of endeavor be it on land or on the water.

Specifically, on the water, having routinely having to dodge unlit fishing boats, tugboat and barge tows, etc., etc. there is no way in this world 3rd World or even some 1st World countries are going to abide by those new "regulations" when they don't abide by the existing ones now.

There are dead cruisers in both oceans who even with radar and C.A.R.D. systems still get run down and killed by ocean freighters and other major shipping vessels who were running without lights and with their radars turned off.

So for the "Cruising on $500 per month" folks they will be needing to use their "mark 1, mod 1" eyeballs to keep out of the way of potential conflicts. And even more important choosing routes and timing those routes to avoid known high traffic periods.

Having propulsion - inboard diesel or outboard gasoline - would be my first "safety" suggestion for micro-budget cruisers so they could get themselves out of the path of conflicting vessels. Beats paddling like a madman up on the bow trying to get out of the way of that cruise ship doing 20 kts bearing down on you. And the big ships, even with active radar, cannot see your small FRG or wooden boat that is hidden in the sea clutter.
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Old 01-01-2012, 16:16   #2647
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by osirissail View Post
You are assuming that because a "regulation" exists, people, corporations, etc. will follow it. Not so in most of the world in almost any field of endeavor be it on land or on the water.

Specifically, on the water, having routinely having to dodge unlit fishing boats, tugboat and barge tows, etc., etc. there is no way in this world 3rd World or even some 1st World countries are going to abide by those new "regulations" when they don't abide by the existing ones now.

There are dead cruisers in both oceans who even with radar and C.A.R.D. systems still get run down and killed by ocean freighters and other major shipping vessels who were running without lights and with their radars turned off.

So for the "Cruising on $500 per month" folks they will be needing to use their "mark 1, mod 1" eyeballs to keep out of the way of potential conflicts. And even more important choosing routes and timing those routes to avoid known high traffic periods.

Having propulsion - inboard diesel or outboard gasoline - would be my first "safety" suggestion for micro-budget cruisers so they could get themselves out of the path of conflicting vessels. Beats paddling like a madman up on the bow trying to get out of the way of that cruise ship doing 20 kts bearing down on you. And the big ships, even with active radar, cannot see your small FRG or wooden boat that is hidden in the sea clutter.
for about,$30 dollars you can get a radar reflector,or make your own!!

suprising how many yachts forget that plastic dosent reflect radar signals,and wonder why they have so many near misses with big ships!
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Old 01-01-2012, 16:21   #2648
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

I expierienced that my self so I cannot more agree with osirissail.
Buoys changed for AIS - I do not see that happen in our waters where by bright daylight professional skippers manage to run their barges of 120 mtrs plus twice in a month against the same bridge. ( Yessir, the autopilot and a quick run to the toilet or the like.

In front of the harbour of Cadiz i was pressed in between an outgoing vessel and an incoming vessel both with no people on the bridge.

The biggest danger of the singlehander is the fisherman and his autopilot. None of the two is going straight for certain. AIS then will be of little help.
The only thing to do is keep your distance. If you spot fishermen, keep a wide berth.
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Old 01-01-2012, 18:00   #2649
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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You are assuming that because a "regulation" exists, people, corporations, etc. will follow it. Not so in most of the world in almost any field of endeavor be it on land or on the water.
Um, did you even read my post? I am assuming no such thing.

What I am saying is that there are areas where there are NO channel markers, NO Buoys and no charts (or no current charts) exist. The ****ONLY**** way to safely navigate such a channel is with AIS.

Going forward, this will be implemented more and more, and at some point AIS will not be 'optional' Even the USCG has suggested that Racon's will be replaced with AIS. Why spend all the time and money to install and maintain a buoy when you can add one with a keystroke?

AIS « The Future of Navigation
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Old 01-01-2012, 18:23   #2650
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

I don' t see it happen here in the foreseeable future. I believe that the less electronics the less problems.
Certain instruments are required, compass, VHF, and the rest? Well that is a matter of preference. On the Med I don' t need any AIS. Better not as the fishermen overthere have no clue whatever it is and even if they have radar it is mostly out of service.
I crossed the channel as well as the main waterways of Holland at night and what is needed is a good watch and the VHF on stand by. It is a gadget for the well crewed boat but the additional value is questionable.
It is an invention done by those who are responsible for the overregulated world.
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Old 01-01-2012, 18:41   #2651
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

It really doesn't matter.

The efficacy of AIS has been discussed extensively on this forum.

Personally, I believe that no matter what 'gadgets' I have aboard, I'll still be able to maintain watch with due diligence and to the best of my abilities. If an AIS or active radar (of some sort) gives me a heads-up BEFORE I can see a ship, then it has paid for itself. Despite knowing that I would have seen it eventually and avoided it on my own...

That last caveat is the difference where budget is concerned. If it was expensive, I wouldn't waste my money... I would just use the facilities I already have available (eyes and ears). But, since it's pretty darn cheap, why not? What is so wrong with adding technology to supplement (not substitute!) traditional navigation and safety?

If it was a cost issue, it would be an issue. But for $100 or $150, I don't see that being difficult for me, or for anyone else who might be inclined to have such gadgets on a meager budget.

Nobody here is talking about trading technology for eyeballs. Nobody is talking about using a gps as a replacement for basic navigation skills, nobody is talking about AIS as a replacement for binoculars, and nobody is talking about radar/detectors as a replacement for watchkeeping.

It's an added luxury. It has its benefits, and its complications. Some people might want it, others don't.... I'm personally willing to try it out for $150. It only has to work once, and I won't be burying my head in a display and forgetting how to navigate on my own. That's an insane assumption.

lets be realistic, people.
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Old 01-01-2012, 18:42   #2652
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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The biggest danger of the singlehander is the fisherman and his autopilot. None of the two is going straight for certain. AIS then will be of little help.
The only thing to do is keep your distance. If you spot fishermen, keep a wide berth.
Stay awake 'til off the continental shelf then no more fishing boats and every vessil you come across will be transmitting. In my experience around the atlantic anyway. Only spotted one ship offshore not trasmitting, a coaster between Senegal & cape Verde.

If you can't afford radar then ais is increadably useful for a single hander sailing offshore.
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Old 01-01-2012, 18:51   #2653
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Just out of curiosity, how does AIS tell you how deep the channel is or the height above water of overheads like bridges or power lines? What about areas not in the shipping lane (i.e. areas outside the middle of the channel where the larger ships are)? How do they get navigated safely?

I read the AIS - Future of navigation article but it seems more directed to large ships not recreational or small work vessels. I can't see too many sampan's, fishing vessels or visiting recreational boaters (like us) using it.
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Old 01-01-2012, 19:01   #2654
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Just out of curiosity, how does AIS tell you how deep the channel is or the height above water of overheads like bridges or power lines? What about areas not in the shipping lane (i.e. areas outside the middle of the channel where the larger ships are)? How do they get navigated safely?

I read the AIS - Future of navigation article but it seems more directed to large ships not recreational or small work vessels. I can't see too many sampan's, fishing vessels or visiting recreational boaters (like us) using it.
I can't answer for xymotic but, I don't believe it has any navigation use.

But, there are hundreds of commercial ships transiting the Atlantic at any given moment. They are either transmitting radar, or AIS, or both. The benefit of AIS is that it immediately gives the position, heading, and speed of the transmitting vessel. This is a great benefit when you can't even see the veseel yet.... What is visual range? too freakin close! AIS, or CARD gives the advantage of correcting your course BEFORE it becomes an issue. period. It obviously won't work in every situation, which is why standard watchkeeping is essential...and it may only work in a few situations, but how many times does it need to work to pay for itself? ONCE!

Panga's are of no concern for me, they are the navigational equivalent of a passing powerboat or another sailor. Close quarters collision awareness is entirely different story.
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Old 01-01-2012, 19:16   #2655
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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I can't answer for xymotic but, I don't believe it has any navigation use.
In China, India and Turkey, they are already using AIS to broadcast channel markers in inland rivers where the currents change the depths rapidly. China in particular is doing AIS and NOT installing markers.
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