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Old 26-12-2011, 22:07   #2581
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by savoir View Post
Huh ? C Map chips are not proprietary and will fit many brands of chartplotter. You only have to commit to a C Map compatible unit which all the big companies make. Whitworths are asking $350 for a chip that covers for all of Australia.

Waddayawant ?
I was referring to the Australian Hydrographic Office Electronic Charts as being in proprietary format, with a proprietary reader and incompatible with chartplotters.

For Cmap, first, I'd need a real chartplotter, there's a couple of grand.

The Humminbird NS10 on my boat is old and shows just rough land outlines and it's not updateable. It's really just a GPS with a rough charting capability, with no other information on it. (Lights, obstructions, wrecks etc) it's useable and it drives the autohelm, but not much good from a safety of navigation point of view.

I have Garmin Blue charts on a lappy with Garmin NRoute, so it can act as a chartplotter, not perfect but ok, just needs the GPS fed to it, either from a Garmin or from anything via GPSGate that emulates Garmin Binary Format. That will suffice for now, but paper charts are not cheap, seem to be around fifteen dollars a sheet, much more if you want them laminated, which seems like a good idea. Paper charts from Sydney to Spencer Gulf are going to cost me a fair bit, but gotta have 'em for the trip so...

My need at the moment is mostly for paper charts, which seem expensive to me. (Ok, maybe I'm just a cheapskate, but that's how it seems.)

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Old 26-12-2011, 22:08   #2582
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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That's certainly how the boat started off, but by end of the 2nd RTW the boat was pretty well loaded with "toys"........albeit took a good few years to get there - and of course no reason why not.

But as you say, perfectly possible to undertake grand voyages without all the bells and whistles - the questions are really: "how minimal do you want to go?" and "are you willing to learn the skills / acquire the knowledge to allow that?".
right, but the point is he went around the world once before he decided to go minimalist and enginless Setting out with whatever you have available, within your own means and standards, is what is most important. Not whether you did it with a gps or a sextant, full keel or a fin, swages or mechanical terminals, teapot or percolator, etc, etc...

as a side note: I wonder if his time spent working with Hans Christian yachts softened him up a bit?
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Old 26-12-2011, 22:11   #2583
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Geoff,
I had no idea Australian charts were that expensive. Can you copy off some in a copier somewhere? Can you get them from libraries? I would not want to navigate without charts. I would do the Australian coast with them, but I was last there 30 years ago...
It seems a shame to go back to Capt. Cook era simply because you do not have the money.
Well, I have workarounds, but they involve computers. I am required to have paper charts for this trip (Sydney to Spencer Gulf) which is gonna hurt.

Libraries do not carry such things as far as I know, certainly they don't allow lending or copying if they do. I'll buy them, but I can think of better things to spend several hundred dollars on and that doesn't even cover all the coast.


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Old 26-12-2011, 22:16   #2584
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Do they have Kinko's in Oz?

[edit] sorry didn't see Newts copier suggestion first...
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Old 26-12-2011, 22:50   #2585
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by AussieGeoff View Post
Well, I have workarounds, but they involve computers. I am required to have paper charts for this trip (Sydney to Spencer Gulf) which is gonna hurt.

Libraries do not carry such things as far as I know, certainly they don't allow lending or copying if they do. I'll buy them, but I can think of better things to spend several hundred dollars on and that doesn't even cover all the coast.


AussieGeoff
If you are "required" by law to carry paper charts then I suggest you try asking the 2nd mates (navigator) on merchant ships if you could "bum" some old charts from him.

On the other hand, if you just need paper charts for your peace of mind, find someone running OpenCPN with the charts you need and print out your own set of charts. If there is no printer available you can print to a file on a thumb drive and take it to a shop for printing on a large format printer. The advantage of using OpenCPN is that it includes a lat/long grid and can be combined with Google Earth photos.

"Where there's a will -- there's a way."

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Old 26-12-2011, 23:16   #2586
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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If you are "required" by law to carry paper charts then I suggest you try asking the 2nd mates (navigator) on merchant ships if you could "bum" some old charts from him.
Interesting idea, but the crews we see here are all Indonesian and Philipino, but it's worth a go. And yes, it's a legislative requirement if you go more than ten miles offshore. I'm going to try and stay inside that, but I also like the security of paper charts.

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On the other hand, if you just need paper charts for your peace of mind, find someone running OpenCPN with the charts you need and print out your own set of.
Not really.
OpenCPN supported chart formats:


BSB Versions 1, 2 and 3, with chart files ending with ".kap".
BSB Version 4
, with chart files ending with ".cap", works with a non free plugin, for Windows only.
NOS/GEO Version 1
, with chart files ending with ".nos" and ".geo". (Subsequent versions are probably supported but need to be tested. However, this format is obsolete for new charts.)
"nv-charts"
, with chart files ending with ".eap", are supported through a non free plugin, for Windows only.
CM93 Version 2.
(C-map Version 3, and later, is in a preprocessed proprietary SENC format and is not supported.)

S57/S52 (ENC), with chart files ending with ".000". OpenCPNs internalSENC files has a ".S57" file extension.

If a chart is said to be a S57 Vector chart, and has a different file ending, it is likely to be a SENC file, a processed version of a ".000" chart file, in a proprietary, platform specific format, that OpenCPN can't handle.



Please note - Current (V3) CMap charts ARE proprietary format and are NOT compatible with OpenCPN. Another gentlemen suggested CMap was not proprietary, this WAS the case until V3.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Viking Sailor View Post
If there is no printer available you can print to a file on a thumb drive and take it to a shop for printing on a large format printer. The advantage of using OpenCPN is that it includes a lat/long grid and can be combined with Google Earth photos.
I can print I think from the Garmin Blue Charts I have on the laptop, but nowhere around here can you get anything printed above A4 or maybe A3, and most places will not print copyrighted material anyway.

OpenCPN is next to useless here.

Don't worry, I have workarounds, they just aren't ideal.

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Old 26-12-2011, 23:30   #2587
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by AussieGeoff View Post

For Cmap, first, I'd need a real chartplotter, there's a couple of grand.

AussieGeoff
Raymarine A50 with au basic charts $750 https://www.whitworths.com.au/main_i...AbsolutePage=1 and maps are quite detailed.

Under what rules must we carry paper charts 10 nm off shore? I would love to see the Sydney Hobart racers use them.
I dont work there I just spend my money
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Old 27-12-2011, 01:06   #2588
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

OpenCPN does support CM93 Version 2 charts. You might want to check with other cruisers to see if they are available. Also, try this google search. You might get lucky.

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Old 27-12-2011, 01:11   #2589
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

I have 2010 v2. cm93 charts of the world. I have no idea how to send it to people, but I might be willing to trade for some bottom paint
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Old 27-12-2011, 02:11   #2590
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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OpenCPN does support CM93 Version 2 charts. You might want to check with other cruisers to see if they are available. Also, try this google search. You might get lucky.

I downloaded them Google and they are 2008 charts and its 50gig good for research but I would not use them for 1700nm
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Old 27-12-2011, 02:21   #2591
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by AussieGeoff View Post
I was referring to the Australian Hydrographic Office Electronic Charts as being in proprietary format, with a proprietary reader and incompatible with chartplotters.

For Cmap, first, I'd need a real chartplotter, there's a couple of grand.

The Humminbird NS10 on my boat is old and shows just rough land outlines and it's not updateable. It's really just a GPS with a rough charting capability, with no other information on it. (Lights, obstructions, wrecks etc) it's useable and it drives the autohelm, but not much good from a safety of navigation point of view.

I have Garmin Blue charts on a lappy with Garmin NRoute, so it can act as a chartplotter, not perfect but ok, just needs the GPS fed to it, either from a Garmin or from anything via GPSGate that emulates Garmin Binary Format. That will suffice for now, but paper charts are not cheap, seem to be around fifteen dollars a sheet, much more if you want them laminated, which seems like a good idea. Paper charts from Sydney to Spencer Gulf are going to cost me a fair bit, but gotta have 'em for the trip so...

My need at the moment is mostly for paper charts, which seem expensive to me. (Ok, maybe I'm just a cheapskate, but that's how it seems.)

AussieGeoff
OK then, if it must be paper charts then Bellingham will sell you a bundle of 105 Australian charts for about US 600 and they will see you from Albany WA to Thursday Island. Is $6 per chart cheap enough ?

Sheeeesh ! You guys are hard to please.

As for electronic charts, how hard did you look ? With 2 minutes of net surfing I found this list of C Map compatible units. If you prefer Navionics they have a similar list.
http://www.jeppesen.com/documents/ma..._Sep08rev1.pdf

Then with one minute more surfing I found this offer of a Si Tex Colormax 6 for a quarter of your price estimate
ColorMax 6 LCD GPS/WAAS Charting System

Maybe there are other units that are better and cheaper. Go shopping and see.

I also second stcpc's request for details of the law about paper charts 10 miles offshore.
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Old 27-12-2011, 04:42   #2592
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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I also second stcpc's request for details of the law about paper charts 10 miles offshore.
Seems a strange law - would have thought more useful to require them for passages under 10 miles (from shore or outlying navigable hazards)....offshore not too much to bump into (that is fixed in place).

I have no idea but (outside of commercial ports) wouldn't Australian charts likely be somewhat less accurate (in total) than in other areas? - due both to the charting methods (and date of?) and also the changeable nature of the coastline (Sand banks / reefs? - at least in respect of the bits of coast you want / need to approach - for a port or anchorage)....Australia is a big place! - I would be surprised (astounded?!) if everything was continuously re-charted and updated.

Over here the rocks are fairly fixed in place - and not so much to worry about with moveable sandbars / banks and the offshore reefs fairly easy to avoid (i.e. no need to navigate through them to get from A to B) - but nonetheless outside the commercial routes and close inshore plenty to hit that may well be on the chart, but just not neccessarily in the "right" place . and we've been marking stuff on charts a bit longer than the Aussies - and our island is a tad () smaller.....albeit took us a few hundred years to get simply the basic outline of Jersey correct .

For costs reasons would it not make sense for a fairly large scale chart of each coastline, supplemented by smaller scale for any regular cruising area(s) - and perhaps marked up with navigable routes for when inshore of offshore hazards?.....and supplemented by Pilotage notes / guides for the main ports and any others intended to visit (and those which are possible to)......The guides would contain info not only on how to enter a port but also advice of when to (and when not to!) as well as in what weather conditions / wind direction an anchorage or harbour becomes a problem..........would have thought the internet (Free?) would provide a host of info - even if have to not treat the guides as gospel (until proven to self otherwise). Not quite push button voyaging, but plusses as well as minuses to that
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Old 27-12-2011, 05:10   #2593
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Newt wrote...
Quote:
Less educated seamen need more, more educated and experienced seamen need less to do more.
How true!
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Old 27-12-2011, 05:27   #2594
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

[QUOTE=sctpc;846405]Raymarine A50 with au basic charts $750 https://www.whitworths.com.au/main_i...AbsolutePage=1 and maps are quite detailed.

Mmm. They are getting cheaper. I can't afford it at the moment unfortunately, we've got a big refit to do over the next year or so, maybe as part of that..

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Under what rules must we carry paper charts 10 nm off shore?
Those are the regs in my home state (South Australia) I presumed NSW and Vic, whose waters we will pass through are similar. Frankly, I think they have it backwards, you need charts close in, at sea, well, it's all water (well mostly).

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I would love to see the Sydney Hobart racers use them. I dont work there I just spend my money
LOL maybe they have them aboard, it doesn't say you have to use them, they just have to be carried....

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Old 27-12-2011, 16:04   #2595
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Atlas of South Australia | standard map viewer

Does it say how detailed the paper chart needs to be?

Digital Nautical Chart

http://dnc.nga.mil/DNCSiteContent/St...c_coastals.gif

I don't know what these are or how to get them, and they claim they aren't good enough for civilian boats, but they might work if you print it out?
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