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Old 14-12-2011, 16:42   #2401
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by NorthPacific View Post
Well I hope I can cruise on about 1500 a month. I might as well be poor in the tropics than poor and cold in the north. We will equipe the modest ship the best we can and then be gone. Long figured out can never have enough gear or enough money so sod it. 18 months and unless things go horribly wrong I am gone!
Yours is a valid and realistic assessment for many cruisers. $18,000/yr is achieveable by many however will not meet the aims of this thread although. Certainly some useful discussion for many cruisers.
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Old 14-12-2011, 18:47   #2402
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

I have a 60' pilothouse ketch and I've been sailing her for awhile but in all truth she is exspensive.But keep in mind MAINTANCE....Is the first word of the day I don't care what you have 10' dinkl to a 105' mega yatch.If you don't plan ahead of time it will cost you.I try as humanly possible to think ahead but Murphies law will jump up and bite you in the a**.So small is afordable but big is comfortable and I think no I don't think I know getting a crew willing to pay some on the way and it all works out.People we are not out there to get rich hell we're lucky to be out there.That's why I alway's say sail in numbers you can alway find a fix with others around.Dam I've been on harley's all my life and traveling companions is where it's at.So know who's arround you.Have a great night and stay safe.Capt.Wildbill.
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Old 14-12-2011, 19:51   #2403
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by NorthPacific View Post
Well I hope I can cruise on about 1500 a month. I might as well be poor in the tropics than poor and cold in the north. We will equipe the modest ship the best we can and then be gone. Long figured out can never have enough gear or enough money so sod it. 18 months and unless things go horribly wrong I am gone!
Some places in the tropics are really reasonable and very nice places to be.
Go to the tropics catch fish, chase women, and have the time of your life!!
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Old 14-12-2011, 20:19   #2404
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
Anti-foul averages almost $1200 every 18 months. The labor component is like $400 so I could do that myself I guess.
Two weeks ago, we bought 10 litres of good quality anti-foul for $300. That will probably last us 3 years on a 40' yacht. You spend $1200 per year and a half on a 25' yacht, which should have about 1/4 to 1/3 of the bottom area. Is there something I'm missing here?
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Old 14-12-2011, 20:25   #2405
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Even name brand paints are only $150 a gallon (if you don't buy the stupid expensive stuff). It takes exactly 1 gallon to coat my 30 foot hull with an extra coat around the waterline and a few other places. I'd like to put 3 coats on for the next haulout so It will last atleast 2 years... That plus the haul-out (under $200 for haul and pressure-wash, and a few days layup, if you shop around, (up to $4-500 at the expensive yards). so, at most, thats $500 a year, and can be much less.
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Old 14-12-2011, 20:26   #2406
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Blue water paint has a 45% copper paint for 99.00 USD a gallon. Practical sailor gave it a good to very good rating beating out a few more well known anti foul companies.
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Old 14-12-2011, 21:01   #2407
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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My problem with this thread is that to me it drifted from the first post.

I thought it was about how to cruise on $500/mo. But it seems everyone wants to agrue about how to buy a boat, outfit it, and cruise on a total of $500/mo.

As far as oufitting and buying a boat on the cheap is there really that much discussion needed that one can not have all new equipment.

Guess I would suggest that if someone is not doing the last sentence that that would be a good start.

PS - guess I still don't know how not aving refrigation would save me money each month cruising.
Don, this is the also the problem I have with this thread

The reason I keep trying to argue against not including the boat price is that I just can't wrap my head around anyone Choosing to live on $500 a month. Nobody wants to live/cruise on such a small budget. The people doing it are either A: fixed income folks who spent their life savings on a boat and no longer have the ability to save money (or atleast not easily), or B: people who already live on a small income and cannot afford to invest $25k in a boat to begin with.

Not many people are willing to live a minimalistic lifestyle if they aren't being forced to. So all these people that can afford to purchase nice boats and outfit them with nice gear do not belong in the $500 a month club IMO

The first group is the exception... They might have a pretty nice boat, but IMO, they made a big mistake they could have gone much, much, cheaper on the boat, and put some extra money away to prevent them from being Forced to live on $500 a month.

The second group, simply cannot afford to go the normal route of making a large initial investment, be it on the boat, or gear, or whatever. These are the people who require a smaller, cheaper, boat, with minimal gear and minimal expenses.

So, when it comes to something like refrigeration. You're absolutely right, it would save money and make food last longer, etc... But it's a fairly significant initial cost. Since these are the people with 'project' boats, they are more likely to have better things to spend that money on.

Personally, I put refrigeration pretty far down on the list of priorities. Thats partially because I simply can't afford one anytime in the near future, and also because I've been doing just fine without it for 6 months now

The 'minimalist' thinks a bit differently than the average cruiser. We try to avoid acquiring new things (as a principal) and spending money that's not absolutely necessary. getting the boat seaworthy is top priority, comfort comes later... but unfortunately, keeping the boat seaworthy is often too expensive to ever really get it 'finished'. So cruising comforts fall to the wayside, meanwhile the person gets acclimated to the minimal lifestyle and the cruising comforts fall even further down the priority list.

So to answer you're question... going without refrigeration doesn't save money on a monthly basis. It prevents a person from spending money on something they don't really need, and gives them the ability to use that money on something more important.

As far as this thread goes, it was offtopic from the getgo, and it will continue to be as long as people insist that the boat itself and the preparation costs "don't count"
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Old 14-12-2011, 21:14   #2408
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by Weyalan View Post
Two weeks ago, we bought 10 litres of good quality anti-foul for $300. That will probably last us 3 years on a 40' yacht. You spend $1200 per year and a half on a 25' yacht, which should have about 1/4 to 1/3 of the bottom area. Is there something I'm missing here?
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Even name brand paints are only $150 a gallon (if you don't buy the stupid expensive stuff). It takes exactly 1 gallon to coat my 30 foot hull with an extra coat around the waterline and a few other places. I'd like to put 3 coats on for the next haulout so It will last atleast 2 years... That plus the haul-out (under $200 for haul and pressure-wash, and a few days layup, if you shop around, (up to $4-500 at the expensive yards). so, at most, thats $500 a year, and can be much less.
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Blue water paint has a 45% copper paint for 99.00 USD a gallon. Practical sailor gave it a good to very good rating beating out a few more well known anti foul companies.
Thanks for the comments guys. I know anti-fouling is a "religious" topic.

Here is the most embarrasing that Ralax Lah! has looked and I share the photos knowing I will be ridiculed. It's OK, I am still getting crap about this at the club...

This year I travelled extensively and was gone from the boat for 3 months. See the photos. This is Micron Extra after 3-months of no sail and no dive. This is also after about 18 months. Note the waterline where the white is starting to show through.

I settled on Micron extra after talking to lots of guys in my area. I put 3 coats on the boat and 4 at the waterline, saildrive and keel.

Everyone here talks about how fertile our waters are. International paints has a paint barge at our club where they test anti-foul paints.

Jamestown marine offers it for about $220 bucks a gallon. I pay a premium to get it locally. Maybe in the $1200 estimate there is a bit more labor and consumables and haulout cost as opposed to paint but $1200 every 18 months is the total.

Interlux Micron Extra Antifouling Bottom Paint

Bottom line - When the bottom looks like this I can cry about not getting 4 years outta my paint or I can paint the boat. I don't see a choice.
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Old 14-12-2011, 21:21   #2409
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
Thanks for the comments guys. I know anti-fouling is a "religious" topic.

Here is the most embarrasing that Ralax Lah! has looked and I share the photos knowing I will be ridiculed. It's OK, I am still getting crap about this at the club...

This year I travelled extensively and was gone from the boat for 3 months. See the photos. This is Micron Extra after 3-months of no sail and no dive. This is also after about 18 months. Note the waterline where the white is starting to show through.

I settled on Micron extra after talking to lots of guys in my area. I put 3 coats on the boat and 4 at the waterline, saildrive and keel.

Everyone here talks about how fertile our waters are. International paints has a paint barge at our club where they test anti-foul paints.

Jamestown marine offers it for about $220 bucks a gallon. I pay a premium to get it locally. Maybe in the $1200 estimate there is a bit more labor and consumables and haulout cost as opposed to paint but $1200 every 18 months is the total.

Interlux Micron Extra Antifouling Bottom Paint

Bottom line - When the bottom looks like this I can cry about not getting 4 years outta my paint or I can paint the boat. I don't see a choice.
I'd say that Micron Extra is not the correct paint for your location.

The PO of my boat used micron extra (hauled and painted every year by the yard), and everybody kept recommending I use the same. I decided to use Petit Hydrocoat instead. one coat, 6 months in the water and just a little 'peach fuzz' of growth. Granted, this isn't singapore, just saying that recommendations aren't always correct.. I wonder if everyone elses boat looks like that around there?
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Old 14-12-2011, 21:25   #2410
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

PS: when i say I want to get multiple years out of my paint, i mean to say that I'll use 3 coats so it can withstand all the cleaning I'll have to do. Not that It would just keep the growth off for 2 years...
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Old 14-12-2011, 22:04   #2411
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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I'd say that Micron Extra is not the correct paint for your location.

The PO of my boat used micron extra (hauled and painted every year by the yard), and everybody kept recommending I use the same. I decided to use Petit Hydrocoat instead. one coat, 6 months in the water and just a little 'peach fuzz' of growth. Granted, this isn't singapore, just saying that recommendations aren't always correct.. I wonder if everyone elses boat looks like that around there?
Yes - Everyone's boat looks like that around here - LOL...

There are a lot of guys in the marine industry here. This year 3 of them went in on some back of the truck ship paint. It is a hard paint. They all pay someone $50 every two weeks to dive their boats now.

A lot of guys are using a Jotun paint.

My previous owner dry sailed. He had a hard paint on there and I took advice and went with the hard paint. The attached is what it looked like after about a month - Boat yard already cleaned it but left a patch for me to come and see. The alarming part was the parent material attack by the barnacles. I knew this was bad. I got my money back for the labor but not the materials.

That's when I went to Micron - It is ablative and like you say - whether you sail a lot (to make it work) or sail a little and rub it off. It has to be rubbing away or it doesn't work. In theory I could add more coats and get 2 years but 3 coats lasts 18 months.

After painting I can leave the hull alone for 4 months. Then I power wash it. Then I get into a 2-3 month power wash cycle until around 14 months. Then it is power wash monthly and I know it is time to anti-foul soon.

I will research the Petit Hydrocoat. But trust me, everyone around here is watching everyonoe else...
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Old 14-12-2011, 22:10   #2412
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Wow. That is some impressive growth for sure, Ex-Calif!

If nothing else, I reckon you'd be able to get a diver to scrub your boat below the waterline (I was gonna say "to scrub your bottom", but that sounds so wrong) for $30 or even less (hereabouts I can get our 40' boat done for $50)... once a month might be a pretty sound investment!
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Old 14-12-2011, 22:18   #2413
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

So basically, I could make a pretty good living scrubbing hulls in singapore? Sounds like a plan
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Old 14-12-2011, 22:18   #2414
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

I have a NZ world crusier mate who painted his hull with toxic stuff from Japan 4 years ago and after in the high growth areas of the BC coast he is still clean!! If anyon eis interested I can find out the name,
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Old 15-12-2011, 05:15   #2415
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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As far as this thread goes, it was offtopic from the getgo, and it will continue to be as long as people insist that the boat itself and the preparation costs "don't count"
I understand your frustration (and enjoy your posts ) and I do see the boat prep costs as "counting", but just not needed to be included in the Accounts on an ongoing basis (the money has gone)............but there will be plenty of people who are preparing a boat over a period of several years whilst they are still earning but know that once they stop that $500 a month will be (have to be?) the target, whether from savings, Govt SS or private pension (or a bit of all) and wish to equip / put maintanence in the bank to cope with that drop in income.

Using the fridge example, a judgement has to be made between that $1000? (or $500? s/h) Engel, a cheaper model or none at all (and money spent on other things) - versus the cash going into the cruising kitty...........Obviously the decision is automatically made if the $1000 / $500 isn't available (or would be half of the kitty)......but when still earning likely will be an option to judge, even if also at the price of not having something else "Nice". Lots of similar choices (trade offs) to be made.

My judgement, your judgement and someone else's will all be different and equally capable of being right (or wrong ) as everyones current circumstances will differ, as well as future intentions / plans / dreams.

IMO the better prepared a boat (and Skipper) is the more likely the cruising budget is to be lower - as in the fundamentals being sound and at least a few long term time money savers - whether that be a fridge, rainwater collection, additional water storage, solar panels etc etc - even if likely not everything).......but boat doesn't have to look factory fresh (or even pretty!) inside or out, that's a real money (and time) eater to acheive.

FWIW (less than $500 ) if someone is intending an endless cruise (rather than a couple of years or so) then unless they are on Govt SS / Private Pension they will need to factor in work - otherwise would need a cruising kitty in the 100's of K to last a lifetime, which is probably (?!) unlikely. The question then becomes "how much do I work?" to get the $6k a year (or a bit more?!). For some that may be 6 months, for others 6 weeks.

I do understand that being poor / broke can be bl##dy hard work - a lot of peddling simply to stay still, and not always succesfully. I would take my hat off to anyone who is / can buy and then refit a boat on a $500 a month budget, including living expenses.......but I can't - I sold my hat on E-bay!

I have always said that easier to make $500 a month (above basic living expenses) than to live on that sum......the "secret" is work (hard and / or smart - either for self or for others)........but I'm probably thread drifting on that
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