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Old 28-11-2011, 13:55   #2266
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pirate Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

An English guy called Maurice Griffiths designed quite a few home builds... one of the most built was the 26ft Eventide... closely followed by the Waterwitch 30 below in 1957... also came with lee-boards if prefered..
They were hard chined sinple builds in 3 mediums... wood, ply and steel... 2 yrs later he brought out the Mk11... a centre cockpit option..

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Old 28-11-2011, 16:46   #2267
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

If I were going to build one, I'd build one of Brent Swains Origami steel 36 footer

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Old 28-11-2011, 16:47   #2268
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

But i wouldn't build a boat... too expensive
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Old 28-11-2011, 17:44   #2269
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaimusailing View Post
It looks like the basic theme of this thread has gone off in one direction or another and rarely come back on task. There is a common theme that a simpler, smaller boat will cost less and have lower operating costs. There is a designer of DIY boats that has followed this tack and has become the most popular designer of self built boats in history. His name is James Wharram and he designs catamarans. They are wood/epoxy and very seaworthy. They are not large and expensive or prone to capsize. He does not specify expensive nautical fittings in his plans, but has instructions on alternative DIY fittings that work well. I have one of his larger boats that is fully capable of ocean travel and didn't cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. If the theme of this thread is how to get cruising as quickly as possible and for a little as possible, logic would arrive at a Wharram catamaran for some people. The smaller Wharrams are maybe the most seaworthy sailcraft of all. A 21' Wharram circumnavigated, a 23' sailed from US East Coast to Bermuda through a hurricane, several 26' have done transatlantic. The original theme of this thread is about cruising on the bleeding edge of cheap, and that would include some extremes of boat and lifestyle.
I take your point and have always admired Wharrams (and the philosophy behind them).

But the problem with building any boat is that will always be more expensive than buying s/h.

What would concern me with a s/h Wharram is a) the original builder and b) the subsequent Owner(s) - plywood not so forgiving of idiot ownership as GRP.

But as always, yer pays yer money and makes yer choice
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Old 28-11-2011, 18:19   #2270
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

One of the fellows who live in the anchorage, works casual day labor.

He goes to the "labor hall", and gets work about 3 days / week.

Regardless, on this small income, he raised a family and rebuilt 4
boats.

His largest was a 34 Ft LOA sloop. He says that one was the worst.

Just too big.

He is looking for a good old boat in poor condition to refurbish.
This time he claims he will keep her.

If you know of a boat, email me at:
goprisko@publicresearchinstitute.org

and I'll pass the info onward.

If he can do it, so can you.

INDY
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Old 28-11-2011, 18:35   #2271
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
An English guy called Maurice Griffiths designed quite a few home builds... one of the most built was the 26ft Eventide... closely followed by the Waterwitch 30 below in 1957... also came with lee-boards if prefered..
They were hard chined sinple builds in 3 mediums... wood, ply and steel... 2 yrs later he brought out the Mk11... a centre cockpit option..

This boat beats a Wharram hands down. It will out point the cat, carry a heavier load (more tankage), has a roomier interior, and can
be built in plywood. or aluminum.

Dunno, why the Wharram folks can't get it.

They go on and on about how their boats can be built for nothing.

I have yet to see any of them put together a bill of materials and put it up for analysis.

I did that for a project I suggested.

As I said before, installing lead ballast is much maligned. Wheel weights from tire shops melt down quite well, and make a great ballast keel.

A mono-hull requires building ONE BOAT. You can make it quite simple
using lots of Wharram's ideas to eliminate fittings.

If that mono-hull is a sharpie, you get a boat from the same material list as one ama of a wharram, and you don't have to fabricate the bridge deck.

I showed several likely plans from top designers. All that seems to go on here is wanton burying of this info in mindless chatter by folks who
don't go sailing, or if they did, their boat is a 50 footer.

This likely is because those cruising on small budgets, don't have power to run computers.

Mike in his canoe, most certainly doesn't.

I'll say this one more time. In my 50 years on the water, I've seen a handful of Wharrams. I saw none in my 5 years in the Pacific, a couple in the west Indies, one in central america (chartering 53 ft LOA), and one at Walvis Bay in Africa that a guy in Windhoek built. I saw his boat in St. Helena, just a year later skippered by someone else. The builder, as most, sold his creation after one trip to Brazil. I'd guess the beast scared the pants off him.

I covered the following places:

Bahamas, all 600 islands
Hispanola, both the DR and Haiti
Leewards
Windwards
Venezuela
Colombia
Panama
Nicaragua
Costa Rica
Honduras
Guatemala
Belize
Mexico
Ecuador
Peru
Galapagos
Marquesas
Tuamotus
Tahiti
Moorea
Huahine
Riatea
Bora Bora
Suvarov
Wallis
Samoa
Fiji
New Zealand
New Caledonia
Australia
Vanuatu
Solomons
New Guinea
Palau
Phillippines
China
HongKong
Borneo
Vietnam
Cambodia
Thailand
Singapore
Malaysia
Andaman Is
India
Sri Lanka
Chagos
Seychelles
Comorros
Mayotte
Madagasgar
South Africa
Namibia
Angola
St. Helena
Fernando De Noronha
Trinidad
Tobago
Maine
Chesapeake
All 5 Great Lakes
The mid-western Rivers
the Canadian Sub - Arctic

Quite unlike the ferro cutter based in Luderitz. That guy goes to Brazil every year.

Ply boats require attention, or they will go down hill in a hurry. You must keep the ply edge grain sealed, regardless of marine grade being used.

Go out and get a good old boat. Go back and re-read pp 28-37

INDY
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Old 28-11-2011, 18:45   #2272
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by nknowland View Post
even if you don't eat meat, $150 on food outside of the USA won't get you much in the way of fresh fruit and vegies and dairy.
Rubbish!

You can do quite well on this in Martinique, New Guinea, Solomons, New Zealand, Asia, India, and RSA

The most expensive veggies are in St. Thomas.

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Old 28-11-2011, 19:20   #2273
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

You are right to steer away from homebuilding, or selfbuilding, as Wharram puts it. It's like trying to build your house, the construction companies can put one up for a fraction of the cost and their experienced labor can do a good job of it. Imagine if you had to build your automobile in your garage. Building a boat on your own from scratch is probably the worst way to get a boat. If you can get an unfinished project, then you might do OK. I got mine from an estate and it was in the desert in California, far from the ocean. Yet, I went ahead, I had surveyed it, I knew what the downside might be. I was very familiar with Wharram's, and had the money to bail me out if necessary. The end result really changed my life and I could express some of my own ideas in the completed boat. Which is not really yet complete, nor is my life.
The main problem with Wharrams is the designer's focus on traditional polynesian oean going boats. Most modern sailors wouldn't want to duplicate those conditions at sea. What worked then still works now, but we are different people now and we have civilization calling us away from our seagoing life. We don't need to drag cordage with mussels to sustain us.
The smaller Wharrams, such as the one I built long ago, are extremely seaworthy and can be built in the backyard and sailed anywhere. There isn't much storage space, nor would many modern sailors go on a long voyage as crew. The bucket factor, etc.
The larger Wharrams have the capacity for voyaging so that you can bring along stores and crew and do well at sea. Building one is a challenge, more than sailing one. And so it goes, the production yards can produce a new seagoing boat for less cost than the amateur builder, and there are several certified builders that can make you a boat. The financial difference is paying as you go to build it yourself, or paying a builder, much like going down to Annapolis and buying a new Fountain-Pajot. On the used boat market, the plywood Wharrams have been devalued, but now they are selling at a better price.
Goprickso is asking why Wharram "doesn't get it". Well, Mr. Wharram has gotten it over the years and now has sold more plans to dreamers to go out and make their own boat, and he has more self built boats afloat than anyone else in history. I wouldn't want to discourage anyone from whatever boat they gravitate to, if they follow through, and the result is another sailor who has learned how to live on the sea. I happen to like the sea and sailing, not about what boat I am on, but of course I have reservations. Like the moorings you might want to pick up, an old boat might have hidden weakness, also old brain cells might undermine an active mind.
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Old 29-11-2011, 01:01   #2274
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
save money--learn local cooking methods. eat the foods they eat. much of it is quite good huge difference from usa
Soo true zee live like the locals is by far the best is not that why we go overseas to experience other cultures

But I must say the US has extremely cheep food we averaged little more than AU for two weeks and never cooked a single meal. that was in LA and LAS Vegas. and nike shoes OH
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Old 29-11-2011, 07:03   #2275
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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. . . Well, Mr. Wharram has gotten it over the years and now has sold more plans to dreamers to go out and make their own boat, and he has more self built boats afloat than anyone else in history. . . .
- - Possibly, but I doubt it - I see an awful lot of Bruce Roberts design boats around everywhere. According to his website, there are 35,000 completed boats from his design/plans packages. Of course, his plans encompass mono's, catamaran, and power boats versions. Although my eye is towards sailboats so I notice them more often than the powerboat versions

- - David-Old Jersey summed everything up pretty well on "home-built" versus "production boats." In my view it is pretty much the same problem with fiberglass versus ferro-cement boats - quality of the builder's work and materials.

- - There is no doubt that "building your own" is going to be massively expensive, and if it isn't, then I wouldn't want to buy the boat used - same as ferro-cement. Since this thread in my estimation is about "minimalist budget" cruising, spending the money and time necessary to "build your own" no matter what the design or material, is going to be both expensive and consume a huge amount of time.

- - Over the years I have seen too many "project boats" sitting in folks back yards or boatyards unfinished and up for "desparation sale" - that is the owner/builder ran out of money and interest/time and wants to "cut his losses."

- - So to keep within the spirit of this "minimalist budget" thread, I think discussions of building your own should be elsewhere. Finding a reasonably good "used" boat for minimal money but solid construction is more appropriate no matter whether it has one, two or three hulls.

- - IMHO, with only a few exceptions those folks attracted to "minimalist budget" cruising are also quite "new" to cruising and have little, if any, sailing experience. Therefore a solid little "heavy" mono will most likely keep them safe and economical as they "crash and bash" their way to learning to become an experienced cruiser.

- - I believe an accepted principle in minimalist budget cruising is the less you have, the less you have to maintain, fix or replace all of which costs money. Number of hulls certainly fits into this principle.

- - But the bottom line, is what are you going to be doing with the boat? Back creek, coastal, swamp cruising would certainly be cheaper and easier with a ultra-shallow draft boat (e.g., multi-hull) than a deep draft ocean cruiser. On the other hand offshore, inter-island and ocean crossings for a "newbie" would be easier and cheaper in a solid "heavy" full keel mono-hull.

- - And then the area in between can be mono, little, bitty cat's or even tri's - but with the caveat that the more hulls you have, the more skill and cunning you need to operate them. It is pretty much a similar situation to a motorcycle versus a small car. A "newbie" is most likely going to be "safer" in a car than a motorcycle.
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Old 29-11-2011, 07:59   #2276
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Osiris,
Thanks for focusing back on track. Fixing up an older boat or finishing someone's abandoned project are a couple of ways to get a boat and go sailing on the cheap.
It seems that many of the boatyards here on the Chesapeake have a few derelict boats "in the back" destined to be crushed, broken up. These are in the 30 ft and smaller range, ususally. The yards will let them go for almost nothing. There is a nonprofit org up here that sells donated boats, C.R.A.B. A yard on Kent Island advertised on Craig's List a handful of boats that were more or less in not that bad of shape for very low prices, and finally they were FREE, just pay the yard bill, which was not that much. We had a fellow arrive at our docks with a CAL25 that he obtained for nothing, but it had a lot of issues. He fixed it up and we sailed on it. Then he found another boat which cost him $100, and needed similar rehab. He only had 1 slip, 2 boats, so he advertised the first one for sale and ended up with customers who bought both boats from him. Now he's looking for another boat.
Some of these boats just need pressure washing and methodical overhaul of the basic systems. Boat prices right now are as low as I've ever seen for older used boats. At the boat show I looked at a couple of cats, one a Gunboat. They were nice, only $1.6 mil.
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Old 29-11-2011, 08:20   #2277
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pirate Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Okay... regarding Wharrams 21 - 30ft...
Yes the building is hard tough work... and if you've limited hand skills I would not recommend you taking it on... you'll give up and be one of the 'Unfinished Projects'.
However... its not more expensive up to 30ft... quite a bit cheaper if you take the 21 and 26.. 50%..
Also there's no lofting involved in the Stitch and Glue method so you can fabricate it in a small protected work space and assemble under an awning...
Get some study plans and a materials list then do some pricing...
Oh... and sails aint so tough to make...
Ok its not the Southampton Boat Show look... but if they're reasonably efficient thats what matters... Wonda web the seams and hand stitch...
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Old 29-11-2011, 09:18   #2278
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Boats For Sale Chesapeake Region Accessible Boating
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Old 29-11-2011, 11:34   #2279
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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-
- - There is no doubt that "building your own" is going to be massively expensive, and if it isn't, then I wouldn't want to buy the boat used - same as ferro-cement. Since this thread in my estimation is about "minimalist budget" cruising, spending the money and time necessary to "build your own" no matter what the design or material, is going to be both expensive and consume a huge amount of time.
precisely

There's no way possible to build and outfit a cruising a boat over 22 (or so) feet and still come out cheaper than simply buying a fixer-upper in the 30 foot range (in todays market in the US), that already has the majority of necessities, and possibly even a few niceties.

I mean, has anyone priced winches, paint, cushions (yes they are necessary), blocks and fittings, stoves, fuel and water tanks, wiring, motors, EPOXY!??

And thats just to get started... just epoxy and paint alone would cost more than my entire boat.
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Old 29-11-2011, 11:39   #2280
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

oh yeah, and the carpeting!
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