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Old 07-09-2011, 20:38   #1876
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surveyor View Post
Personally, I would fish nearly constantly. Fishing in exotic places, as well as while in transit, is a big part of why I want to go on such an adventure in the first place. Catching fish, crabs and other crustaceans could offset a lot of food costs while adding entertainment value. I would want to invest in fishing/snorkeling equipment, a couple of cast nets, a couple of bait traps and a sturdy dink with an over sized anchor. A hookah rig might not be a bad investment either.

Fishing and cruising, a perfect match and a means to achieve a realistic $500/mo budget.

Hi we have been eating "very cheap" here in NZ to see what we can get our costs down to. & yup we are hopping to find a boat in 6 months time & cast off from Florida, we do a lot of fishing & scuba diving & thats when we have had some of the best meals eating Cray fish & Lobsters. Along with rice & pasta. so yup looking at some gr8t times
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Old 07-09-2011, 21:29   #1877
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by welshdiver View Post
....some of the best meals eating Cray fish & Lobsters. Along with rice & pasta. so yup looking at some gr8t times
Pasta tastes even better and is cheaper when you make it yourself . Make up a couple of batches to put in the fridge, cut off what you need for the meal, roll out, cut in strips (I just use a knife), have the water boiling, throw in the strips, when they come to the top, their done.

Easy peasy. Cooks faster then store bought, ready faster, tastier, cheaper.

What's not to like?
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Old 08-09-2011, 00:04   #1878
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

gello,
I assume that along with your axe, tinderbox, and coonskin cap, you also have your copy of The Wealth of Nations tucked under your arm.

If you think like an accountant, you're doomed to live like one.

It's easy to put a $ value on stuff you buy from a shop. It's done for you.
You can also estimate other costs and try to factor them in, and then say you've gone way over the $500 budget, things like the bit of gas to make the gypsy.

But, you can also undervalue, and it's my guess you would, the things you can't put a price on, but that the budget cruiser contributes without even thinking about it. They are things that have value, but you'd never get concensus on the $ amount. But it's just as real.

Let me illustrate...
About 3 decades ago a budget sailor and his partner sailed into Durban harbour. Someone in Aus had given him my number and he called me.
Just introduced himself and said they were going to be in Durban for about 10 days and if I was interested I was welcome to come down, have a drink and look over their boat.
I did, and we got on so well he asked if I might be available to join them to sail to Cape Town. Tricky coast and an extra hand on board etc etc.

Before we left Durban we took them around to see the sights, Zulu villages, bit of wildlife, as you do.
His comment then was that they always feel so guilty when people they meet are so generous and helpful, and they can never really return the favour.
If you count the cost of the fuel, the meals at my place etc etc... he is right.
But if you count the dreams ignited in landbound wage slaves around the planet, the inspiration given to do the same, the romantic moments when someone somewhere saw their gaff rigged schooner ghosting across the bay in the early evening...
to say nothing of the trip to Cape Town and everything I learnt from a damn fine sailor...
Sure I wore a few expenses he benefitted from.
I'm glad as hell I don't have to pay him the dollar value of what he gave me.
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Old 08-09-2011, 00:24   #1879
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond View Post
gello,
I assume that along with your axe, tinderbox, and coonskin cap, you also have your copy of The Wealth of Nations tucked under your arm.

If you think like an accountant, you're doomed to live like one.

It's easy to put a $ value on stuff you buy from a shop. It's done for you.
You can also estimate other costs and try to factor them in, and then say you've gone way over the $500 budget, things like the bit of gas to make the gypsy.

But, you can also undervalue, and it's my guess you would, the things you can't put a price on, but that the budget cruiser contributes without even thinking about it. They are things that have value, but you'd never get concensus on the $ amount. But it's just as real.

Let me illustrate...
About 3 decades ago a budget sailor and his partner sailed into Durban harbour. Someone in Aus had given him my number and he called me.
Just introduced himself and said they were going to be in Durban for about 10 days and if I was interested I was welcome to come down, have a drink and look over their boat.
I did, and we got on so well he asked if I might be available to join them to sail to Cape Town. Tricky coast and an extra hand on board etc etc.

Before we left Durban we took them around to see the sights, Zulu villages, bit of wildlife, as you do.
His comment then was that they always feel so guilty when people they meet are so generous and helpful, and they can never really return the favour.
If you count the cost of the fuel, the meals at my place etc etc... he is right.
But if you count the dreams ignited in landbound wage slaves around the planet, the inspiration given to do the same, the romantic moments when someone somewhere saw their gaff rigged schooner ghosting across the bay in the early evening...
to say nothing of the trip to Cape Town and everything I learnt from a damn fine sailor...
Sure I wore a few expenses he benefitted from.
I'm glad as hell I don't have to pay him the dollar value of what he gave me.
Exactly!!!!!!!

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Old 08-09-2011, 05:33   #1880
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

We have a running joke on our boat that people from shore will row out to hand us a $20 bill, for improving their view. If only.
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Old 08-09-2011, 05:45   #1881
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pirate Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond View Post
gello,
I assume that along with your axe, tinderbox, and coonskin cap, you also have your copy of The Wealth of Nations tucked under your arm.

If you think like an accountant, you're doomed to live like one.

It's easy to put a $ value on stuff you buy from a shop. It's done for you.
You can also estimate other costs and try to factor them in, and then say you've gone way over the $500 budget, things like the bit of gas to make the gypsy.

But, you can also undervalue, and it's my guess you would, the things you can't put a price on, but that the budget cruiser contributes without even thinking about it. They are things that have value, but you'd never get concensus on the $ amount. But it's just as real.

Let me illustrate...
About 3 decades ago a budget sailor and his partner sailed into Durban harbour. Someone in Aus had given him my number and he called me.
Just introduced himself and said they were going to be in Durban for about 10 days and if I was interested I was welcome to come down, have a drink and look over their boat.
I did, and we got on so well he asked if I might be available to join them to sail to Cape Town. Tricky coast and an extra hand on board etc etc.

Before we left Durban we took them around to see the sights, Zulu villages, bit of wildlife, as you do.
His comment then was that they always feel so guilty when people they meet are so generous and helpful, and they can never really return the favour.
If you count the cost of the fuel, the meals at my place etc etc... he is right.
But if you count the dreams ignited in landbound wage slaves around the planet, the inspiration given to do the same, the romantic moments when someone somewhere saw their gaff rigged schooner ghosting across the bay in the early evening...
to say nothing of the trip to Cape Town and everything I learnt from a damn fine sailor...
Sure I wore a few expenses he benefitted from.
I'm glad as hell I don't have to pay him the dollar value of what he gave me.
Shoot.... you can be really deep sometimes...
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Old 08-09-2011, 06:01   #1882
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Interesting posts, gello. Thanks for raising the questions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gello View Post
but isn't that the point and the challenge?
to try and quantify and bracket the unpredictable costs
for those who haven't been there?

...

cheers
gello
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:18   #1883
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

I know people on the hard that if you see them coming your best bet is turn the other way and run. They always want something for nothing. Whether it be a tool a piece of knowledge or just a cup of flour. They are everywhere on land or sea.
I on the other hand when asking for help or advice or a ride what ever will always try to slip them a buck or two for their help regardless if they want it or not. Some people are just takers and you usually know who they are after a short time with them. But they are everywhere and most Most MOST are not!

Now back to 500 a month or less.
What we haven't talked about is savings. If you manage to leave say, Chile fully loaded for French Polynesia. It is about 3000 miles and takes about 33 days at 90 miles a day. If you leave chile on the 28th of the month and are on a fixed income of 500 a month you should have 2 payments in the bank when you get there. Or at least a payment about to go into your account anyway. Now granted there are variables left out or not considered here but you get the point.
According to noonsite there is a very low to no clearance fee to go into French territories. So you could save money there around the world as well as using distance and good money management together. This still doesn't account for breakage and other expenses along the way but it does mean you could in theory have more then 500 in the bank when you get there.
Also I would recommend a kitty jar on the boat just to throw loose change and dollars for a rainy day as well.
That's my 2 cents
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Old 08-09-2011, 08:19   #1884
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

[ Now back to 500 a month or less.
What we haven't talked about is savings. If you manage to leave say, Chile fully loaded for French Polynesia. It is about 3000 miles and takes about 33 days at 90 miles a day. If you leave chile on the 28th of the month and are on a fixed income of 500 a month you should have 2 payments in the bank when you get there. Or at least a payment about to go into your account anyway. Now granted there are variables left out or not considered here but you get the point.
According to noonsite there is a very low to no clearance fee to go into French territories. So you could save money there around the world as well as using distance and good money management together. This still doesn't account for breakage and other expenses along the way but it does mean you could in theory have more then 500 in the bank when you get there.




no clearence fee in fr polynesia,however you may have to put down a bond of$2000 per person for non eu passport holders.

$500 dollars will not go very far,as very expensive in fr polynesia,however staples like bread,tinned sardines,cooking oil,flour,milk powder are subsidised by the french government,so that people other than tourists and government functionaries can afford to live there.

people are generally very friendly and often have large gardens with bannanas,bread fruit,pawpaw,grapefruit,limes etc,a few words of french and quite often they will offer to give or help yourself......but allways ask first so as not to spoil it for later arrivals.

ciguatera is a problem throughout marquises and fr polynesia so avoid lagoon fish.
shell fish and pelegic fish are okay.

.22 bulletts are still in great demand in the marquises,as is rum.

if trading for black pearls be very carefull,as this is punishable by a large fine,even if they were given as gifts.....
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Old 08-09-2011, 11:46   #1885
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cormorant View Post
We have a running joke on our boat that people from shore will row out to hand us a $20 bill, for improving their view. If only.
Hmmm... That's a great thought! I'd even dingy over to them for the cash. Maybe I'll put a sign up....
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Old 08-09-2011, 13:31   #1886
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by welshdiver View Post
Hi we have been eating "very cheap" here in NZ to see what we can get our costs down to. & yup we are hopping to find a boat in 6 months time & cast off from Florida, we do a lot of fishing & scuba diving & thats when we have had some of the best meals eating Cray fish & Lobsters. Along with rice & pasta. so yup looking at some gr8t times
In my experience, you are in an excellent place to find a boat. Lots' of folks make it to Whangerai, and then don't want to return in their boats to the US.

Find a 3 skin Kauri boat, forget the cat. NZ boats sail well. You should find a boat in offshore condition for < $30K USD.

INDY
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Old 08-09-2011, 14:31   #1887
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Freeloading... Pardeys... OR Hiscocks...!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gello View Post
Like the Pardey's, one finds that they depend on the largess of others
to a great extent though they fail to mention the value of "freebies"
in their budgets.

I know the pardey's accept free tows into port for their engineless craft as well as free dockage from friends when available.

I cannot state anymore about the Pardeys, but
a short list of the things I have personally witnessed many "budget" cruisers accept
is:

Loans of cars.
Free laundry at sympathetic homes.
Free dockage at private docks or in vacant slips.
Of course water wherever there is an unattended tap.
Free car or dinghy rides to wherever.
Free entertainment at beaches and clubs intended for those buying drinks and food.
For those with computers, copies of software and charts.
WiFi, provided for paying customers taken for free outside restaurants and marinas
Copies of weather faxes or an evening sit-in each day to listen to the weather on
someone else's SSB
Email messages on other boats SSB.
Medical attention from cruiser physicians.
Sneak-in showers at marinas.
Borrowed cell phone usage.
Borrowed books and borrowed and copied cruising guides.
That lovely untouched pardey rice and bean dish at the potluck while the meat dishes seem to be devoured.
Parts carried in from the US to another country by other cruisers who use air travel to avoid shipping costs.

.
If you read the many books written by Eric Hiscock, it soon becomes apparent that he and Susan partook of the generosity of others far more than Lin and Larry ever did. Free homes in Ft. Lauderdale, dinners in the homes of governors, Tours of mining conglomerates, lavish dinners, free dockage for months, safaris, etc. And they got away with it for 3 circumnavigations! OR DID THEY?

The reality, not observed by our curmudgeon above is this:

Those who dream of setting off are an order of magnitude larger than those who do. Those who are bored are an order of magnitude larger than those who dream of setting off. Between the two audiences is a very large population dying for the opportunity to meet someone who dares to be different, who dares to adventure. For them, favors granted
are paid many times over in memories.

Of course, not every yachtsman is sufficiently voluble to be regaled on the order of the Hiscocks and Pardeys, but being personable, affable, and friendly certainly helps. As a matter of fact it helps whether cruising or working at a job.

Missed by our friend above is the focus of this thread. That focus is managing to cruise on a very limited income, SANS FAVORS.

He has perverted this thread, claiming that it advocates freeloading, when it advocates prudence, and thrift. This is easy to do, because there is a persistent group of posters who simply don't and won't get the message, which is:

Micro-budget cruising is small boat cruising. Specifically cruising in boats < 34 ft LOA.

Micro-budget cruising is solo cruising or cruising as a couple, NOT FOR FAMILIES.

Micro-budget cruising is engineless cruising. If tows are freely offered, and that means better enjoyment, why not?

Micro-budget cruising is not freeloading, or begging. It is living within one's limited means, the essence of thrift. He and many posters simply cannot fathom how this is done. Not surprising, for most of them are US citizens, and thrift is one thing US citizens aren't good at.

Potlucks do not operate as described by him. His description is designed to support his warped view of the world. I have been to potlucks for more than 40 years, and inevitably the dishes brought to share are SALADS, RICE Casseroles, NOODLE Casseroles, PASTA, DESSERTS (seldom pies)ff and NEVER MEAT. The organizers generally provide a grill and participants provide their own meat or fish.

He attempted to imply that those who eat beans are unworthy and unwelcome at potlucks. The first assertion is rubbish, and for the second... at our last potluck at Honeymoon Bay, we brought a dish of New England Baked Beans. It was overdone, and we thought we'd bring most of it home, which was OK, with us. There was none left to bring home. It was one of the most popular dishes.

My point, it doesn't matter a whit what you choose to share, what matters is the presentation, and taste. If it's tasty, it will be devoured, period.

It doesn't matter a whit whether you choose to accept favors or not, what matters is how you treat those who choose to help you. Be gracious, try to reciprocate, photos of the boat, an afternoon aboard, or a harbour tour, all provide those stuck in ruts the opportunity to dream and excape for a little while. Don't accept the rubbish pandered by our wayward friend above, if Eastwood, Roberts, and many others in the entertainment profession can hold their heads up, why not you? Entertainment is entertainment, and the world thirsts for it, whether provided on a DVD, or live on a cruising sailboat.

Fair winds,

INDY
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Old 08-09-2011, 15:16   #1888
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

rules of budgetary cruising keep the dreamers happy but are far outside the reality of cruising.
make a spreadsheet-- seems like that is what you need for your effort. have fun.
cruising aint cruising without interaction with other folks either doing the same thing or natives to the locale you visit. in many places, is downright rude to turn down an invite to dinner or what the folks offer.
have a really goood time.
i think you will find that too many rules limits you very much.
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Old 08-09-2011, 16:46   #1889
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

You need the following:

A mono-hull 28-34 ft LOA in sound condition
A hard dink with oars and sailing rig
A sink or wash tub
A hand pump connected to stainless water tanks or jerry jugs
A bucket head or water closet
Sails in good condition
Anchoring Gear
A tiller connected to a rudder in good condition
A sweep to row the ship into and out of harbors in calms
A hand lead
A monkey fist
Kerosene / LED navigation and cabin lamps
A Grundig/Sony all band receiver
A VHF
A weems plotter, hand bearing compass, binoculars, dividers, pencils, pens, eraser
A quartz clock
A barometer
A sextant and tables and almanac if going off shore
A GPS if you want one ( the simplest/cheapest one you can find)
Charts of the area to be cruised
A cooker
A table at which to sit
A comfortable bunk
Storage for clothes, utensils, food etc.
Snorkeling gear
A magnetic compass
Required safety equipment including: bell, horn, life jackets, life ring, flares, fire extinguishers etc.


You do not need electronics of any description

You do not need a man overboard pole... useless if singlehanding...

You do not need an outboard for the dink or an engine for the ship.


Zeehag mentions how he doesn't like to cruise in sloops. Neither do I.


The Cutter is another matter entirely.


A cutter 31-34 Ft LOA has the following sails:


Main 3 reefs 270 sqft #1 reef 225 sqft #2 reef 160 sqft #3 reef 100 sqft
#1 yankee 270 sqft
#2 yankee 220 sqft
#3 yankee 120 sqft
#1 staysail 210 sqft
#2 staysail 160 sqft
#3 staysail 90 sqft
Drifter 400 sqft


In my experience, the #1s are used during summer conditions and downwind in moderate conditions
The #2s are used in winter conditions, and upwind.
The #3s are for gales and storms


The drifter is for balancing the main downwind and for light conditions, < 10 knots AWS.


Given these sails, there are many combinations available, and there is no need for the complexity and
windage of the Ketch.


I believe that if one is going to have two sticks, he should be looking at a cat schooner, with Chinese lug rig, or similar.


Fair Winds

Quote:
Originally Posted by gello View Post
Like the Pardey's, one finds that they depend on the largess of others
to a great extent though they fail to mention the value of "freebies"
in their budgets.

I know the pardey's accept free tows into port for their engineless craft as well as free dockage from friends when available.

I cannot state anymore about the Pardeys, but
a short list of the things I have personally witnessed many "budget" cruisers accept
is:

Loans of cars.
Free laundry at sympathetic homes.
Free dockage at private docks or in vacant slips.
Of course water wherever there is an unattended tap.
Free car or dinghy rides to wherever.
Free entertainment at beaches and clubs intended for those buying drinks and food.
For those with computers, copies of software and charts.
WiFi, provided for paying customers taken for free outside restaurants and marinas
Copies of weather faxes or an evening sit-in each day to listen to the weather on
someone else's SSB
Email messages on other boats SSB.
Medical attention from cruiser physicians.
Sneak-in showers at marinas.
Borrowed cell phone usage.
Borrowed books and borrowed and copied cruising guides.
That lovely untouched pardey rice and bean dish at the potluck while the meat dishes seem to be devoured.
Parts carried in from the US to another country by other cruisers who use air travel to avoid shipping costs.

.
If you read the many books written by Eric Hiscock, it soon becomes apparent that he and Susan partook of the generosity of others far more than Lin and Larry ever did. Free homes in Ft. Lauderdale, dinners in the homes of governors, Tours of mining conglomerates, lavish dinners, free dockage for months, safaris, etc. And they got away with it for 3 circumnavigations! OR DID THEY?

The reality, not observed by our curmudgeon above is this:

Those who dream of setting off are an order of magnitude larger than those who do. Those who are bored are an order of magnitude larger than those who dream of setting off. Between the two audiences is a very large population dying for the opportunity to meet someone who dares to be different, who dares to adventure. For them, favors granted
are paid many times over in memories.

Of course, not every yachtsman is sufficiently voluble to be regaled on the order of the Hiscocks and Pardeys, but being personable, affable, and friendly certainly helps. As a matter of fact it helps whether cruising or working at a job.

Missed by our friend above is the focus of this thread. That focus is managing to cruise on a very limited income, SANS FAVORS.

He has perverted this thread, claiming that it advocates freeloading, when it advocates prudence, and thrift. This is easy to do, because there is a persistent group of posters who simply don't and won't get the message, which is:

Micro-budget cruising is small boat cruising. Specifically cruising in boats < 34 ft LOA.

Micro-budget cruising is solo cruising or cruising as a couple, NOT FOR FAMILIES.

Micro-budget cruising is engineless cruising. If tows are freely offered, and that means better enjoyment, why not?

Micro-budget cruising is not freeloading, or begging. It is living within one's limited means, the essence of thrift. He and many posters simply cannot fathom how this is done. Not surprising, for most of them are US citizens, and thrift is one thing US citizens aren't good at.

Potlucks do not operate as described by him. His description is designed to support his warped view of the world. I have been to potlucks for more than 40 years, and inevitably the dishes brought to share are SALADS, RICE Casseroles, NOODLE Casseroles, PASTA, DESSERTS (seldom pies)ff and NEVER MEAT. The organizers generally provide a grill and participants provide their own meat or fish.

He attempted to imply that those who eat beans are unworthy and unwelcome at potlucks. The first assertion is rubbish, and for the second... at our last potluck at Honeymoon Bay, we brought a dish of New England Baked Beans. It was overdone, and we thought we'd bring most of it home, which was OK, with us. There was none left to bring home. It was one of the most popular dishes.

My point, it doesn't matter a whit what you choose to share, what matters is the presentation, and taste. If it's tasty, it will be devoured, period.

It doesn't matter a whit whether you choose to accept favors or not, what matters is how you treat those who choose to help you. Be gracious, try to reciprocate, photos of the boat, an afternoon aboard, or a harbour tour, all provide those stuck in ruts the opportunity to dream and escape for a little while. Don't accept the rubbish pandered by our wayward friend above, if Eastwood, Roberts, and many others in the entertainment profession can hold their heads up, why not you? Entertainment is entertainment, and the world thirsts for it, whether provided on a DVD, or live on a cruising sailboat.



Our curmudgeon, like many in the US, thinks that everything can be bought with money. He despises those who use other currency.


He would have berated my father unmercifully. My father borrowed scaffolding and tarps from his employer, borrowed LPG from the supplier. Got nearly a ton of hamburger and franks donated, ditto with cases of buns, not to mention relish, ketchup, mustard, onions, and power. My father did this each and every 4th of July, he even got the site donated, and the labor donated. He made a ton of money, and the entire community put up with him, yea, they helped him every way they could, BECAUSE.... each and every dollar earned went to the local Boy Scouts, where it paid for uniforms, camping trips, equipment, not just for the kids of the middle and working classes, but for the orphans at the Carmelite Home for Boys.


He would have berated my parents too. They took us most weekends to relatives. There we spent the day, snacking, having lunch and dinner, relaxing in their yards, playing with their equipment. Yep, a traditional family outing with relatives. Of course, our relatives came to our house too, where we entertained them.


His problem, he cannot handle a non-monetary economy. He'd be lost in much of the rest of the world, most certainly Russia and China.


Forget diatribes like his, be personable, gracious, and thankful. It will make you many friends, and grease the way for those who follow you.



Fair winds,

INDY






INDY
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Old 08-09-2011, 17:54   #1890
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

"Zeehag mentions how he doesn't like to cruise in sloops. Neither do I."

fine thing, this. i turn my back for a minuet, then come to peek into this overly regulated situation thread to find meself being maligned.
i am by no means a HIM.
i am definitely and definitively a FEMALE.
geez. so much for alleged research from this one--goprisko, i thought you knew better.

ketches are fine and dandy. easy to sail and work well in big seas with only one sailor on board. ANY boat can be single handed if iti s comfortable for the sailor. some need lines taken back to cockpit, some folks will tether on and do it that way.

too many regulations.
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