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Old 07-09-2011, 02:00   #1861
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by gello View Post
i didn't mean to get to class warfare.
I'm just a hillbilly from Appalachia who doesn't believe anything is free.
Someone always pays, and i was always taught to pay my own way.

I tried to be a fascist, but it conflicted with my anarchist core and my propensity
to adopt stray puppies and cruisers.

i welcome your letters.

g
gello,
I enjoyed your earlier post, and this one too.

I actually agree with quite a lot of the points you made, not all, but I also believe that common sense can make up for a lot of dollars.

I also liked Viking Sailor's cruising philosophy, and he didn't try to claim hobo status either, but more a 'what goes around comes around' approach that resonates with real cruisers. I'm sure you would have found that at work in your 10 years of cruising too.

I also get a bit tired of the "I'm more on the bones of my arse than you" brigade who somehow have an approach that if you don't fall into their category you aren't the real deal.

It's just pathetic for some to feel that if you have a bit, you must have trampled others underfoot somewhere along the way.

It must be terrible to live your life always feeling that somehow you've been cheated...

Can't remember where I was going with all that, so take it as a few random comments...
and yes, this a particularly good cleanskin red
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Old 07-09-2011, 02:19   #1862
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond View Post
gello,
I enjoyed your earlier post, and this one too.

I actually agree with quite a lot of the points you made, not all, but I also believe that common sense can make up for a lot of dollars.

I also liked Viking Sailor's cruising philosophy, and he didn't try to claim hobo status either, but more a 'what goes around comes around' approach that resonates with real cruisers. I'm sure you would have found that at work in your 10 years of cruising too.

I also get a bit tired of the "I'm more on the bones of my arse than you" brigade who somehow have an approach that if you don't fall into their category you aren't the real deal.

It's just pathetic for some to feel that if you have a bit, you must have trampled others underfoot somewhere along the way.

It must be terrible to live your life always feeling that somehow you've been cheated...

Can't remember where I was going with all that, so take it as a few random comments...
and yes, this a particularly good cleanskin red
Good clean skin red?What is that?..what is people that have been cheated?..Oh ,I know what that is... They better leave us alone..my random commits always get ME in trouble..lol lol lol lol lol....DVC
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Old 07-09-2011, 02:27   #1863
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Good clean skin red?What is that?people that have been cheated?..Oh ,I know what that is... They better leave us alone...DVC
Aus makes damn fine wine.

Right now with our $ so high they struggle to export, so there is a glut.
Really good wine is sold as 'clean skins'. ie unbranded, back and white labels that just say 'cabernet merlot' or some such, product of South Australia etc...
This bottle was $3.99 and it's brilliant.
I've paid $20 for a lot worse... (can I say that on this thread?)
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Old 07-09-2011, 05:10   #1864
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond View Post
Aus makes damn fine wine.

Right now with our $ so high they struggle to export, so there is a glut.
Really good wine is sold as 'clean skins'. ie unbranded, back and white labels that just say 'cabernet merlot' or some such, product of South Australia etc...
This bottle was $3.99 and it's brilliant.
I've paid $20 for a lot worse... (can I say that on this thread?)
ah! "supply and demand" ,no name brands,
now why don't they do that with healthcare drugs,then maybe it would become affordable to all.
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Old 07-09-2011, 08:54   #1865
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

living on less is not always hobo-ing--lol-- gawds know i am not that.
is very easy , once you leave usa, to live on less than 500 per month including repairs on a 41 ft formosa. seriously. even with the us dollar in low standing. right this instant, pesos are 12.5 to the one dollar---makes large purchases more pricy, but still tolerable. my air conditioner was 140 usd.
it is mostly in usa where everything nautical/marine HAS to cost more, as that is usa way--LOL...
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:12   #1866
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond View Post
gello,
I enjoyed your earlier post, and this one too.

I actually agree with quite a lot of the points you made, not all, but I also believe that common sense can make up for a lot of dollars.

I also liked Viking Sailor's cruising philosophy, and he didn't try to claim hobo status either, but more a 'what goes around comes around' approach that resonates with real cruisers. I'm sure you would have found that at work in your 10 years of cruising too.

I also get a bit tired of the "I'm more on the bones of my arse than you" brigade who somehow have an approach that if you don't fall into their category you aren't the real deal.

It's just pathetic for some to feel that if you have a bit, you must have trampled others underfoot somewhere along the way.

It must be terrible to live your life always feeling that somehow you've been cheated...

Can't remember where I was going with all that, so take it as a few random comments...
and yes, this a particularly good cleanskin red
DITTO!

I didn't trample anyone but I sure took the risk with my own (hard earned) money, ran faster, worked more hours................................whew! How's that for tootin' my trumpet.
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:55   #1867
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

therapy--i know how that is--i worked really hard, made lotsa dough my last 5 yrs in nursing, gave most away helping others now i get to sail on the cheap.....and still help folks who need it....despite limited income. and still i cruise.....
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Old 07-09-2011, 12:20   #1868
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pirate Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

I have not worked hard or seriously since my divorce in 1981....
thats why I cruise under $500/mth....
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Old 07-09-2011, 14:43   #1869
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
DITTO!

I didn't trample anyone but I sure took the risk with my own (hard earned) money, ran faster, worked more hours................................whew! How's that for tootin' my trumpet.
I saw your blog ...good to see father and sons out having a good time.. I like that kind of "Therapy" ,Its good for the soul ..looks like you have a right to "toot" your own horn,lord knows its hard to get someone else to do it ...but they will stick the screws to you if they can..seems like a cruser could make 500.00 a month just catching shellfish and the like ..anyone know a good way to drag a small net behind a sailboat to catch shrimp?..DVC
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Old 07-09-2011, 15:56   #1870
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Just a bit of tidying up here... (damn red again...)

In case I inadvertently trod on a toe or two, I want to clarify that not all low budget cruisers are the chip on the shoulder hobo category the red wine was talking about.
Eg. Boatman and Zeehag are two of the best low budget cruisers I've ever not quite met, but I sure look forward to the day...
They both love their cruising life and are a massive inspiration to just get out there and enjoy it.
Proves that dignity and attitude are a hell of a lot more value than a few extrs $s. Never seen either of them take a cheap shot at a 'wealthy' cruiser who happens to live on a $1000 budget either.

I'll even share a couple of my precious cleanskins...!
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Old 07-09-2011, 16:20   #1871
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Cruising Rigs:

We covered this topic thoroughly much earlier. However, the lessons given seem
to have been lost.

Zeehag has an important point. Sloops do not have the flexibility cutters and ketches have regarding sail combinations.

However, he refers to a 41, which is much larger than the 28-34 ft boats
suitable here.

A cutter of this size will have the following wardrobe of sails:
main 270 sqft with 3 reefs, #1 225 sqft #2 180 sqft #3 100 sqft
#1 yankee 295 sqft
#1 staysail 211 sqft
#2 yankee 200 sqft
#2 staysail 160 sqft
#3 yankee 150 sqft
#3 staysail 120 sqft
Drifter 400 sqft

In light airs the full main and drifter can be set together with the #1staysail
for 890 sqft

Under storm conditions the triple reefed main and storm staysail can be
set for 220 sqft.

In between, numerous combinations are possible. However, I generally use my #1s downwind and during summer conditions, shifting to the #2s upwind and during winter conditions.

INDY
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Old 07-09-2011, 17:32   #1872
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

wow, i must polish up my communications.
The post was about accounting, not sociology, morals and mores, or philosophy
(ok, maybe a little philosophy, but being completely devoid of morals and mores
and more than a bit unsociable i have little standing to comment on the former).

If you are going to tell someone what it costs to cruise, count everything.

Doesn't matter if you get it as gifts from friends, begging, barter, stealing,
outright piracy, or (shudder) political office.

As an example, a very good friend with whom I cruised stripped out his chain
gypsy on his windlass while in South Africa. A new gypsy runs about $200 not
including shipping. Instead he went to a military firing range, picked up cartridge brass, built a sand casting out of lumber and sand, melted the brass over a borrowed
torch, and sand cast then finished his own gypsy.
Good on him. I admire his ingenuity and skill.
His total cost to himself was nil.
His budget did not reflect any cost for the broken chain gypsy.

However, the brass was a gift, the lumber was a gift, the torch was borrowed.
Only the sand didn't cost someone something.

So what do we tell the next person trying to cruise on a shoestring?

a) Leave it out of the budget because chain gypsies are free?
b) Put in the costs of the materials in case they don't have friends as generous
as to donate the materials (or the engineering skills to do their own sand castings
and alloying in brass).
c) Put $200 in the disclosed budget in case they have to order one like most normal cruisers would do?
d) Divide the budget into cash value and "acquired" value components?

You tell me.

All i know for sure is that i see a balance sheet with acquired capital and no
associated cost and that doesn't seem like a trustworthy thing upon which to found a budget and a life plan.

As some of my new age friends keep telling me, "the benevolent universe will provide you with what you need if you remain true to your authentic self".
Sorry, not this hillbilly engineer. I'll trust my fate to Adam Smith thank you very much.

so, how do you count it?
seriously?

g
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Old 07-09-2011, 17:55   #1873
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Gello,

To carry your concept to it logical conclusion -- if your boat sunk and you replaced it -- would you include the replacement coast in your cruising budget?

I believe that example budgets presented here have include a value for repairs. And, most cruising budgets presented have shown any non-recurring costs in the month they occurred.

I think that most people that intend on going cruising realize that there will always be unpredictable costs.

Paul
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Old 07-09-2011, 18:06   #1874
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

there are many costs unable to be numbered as a value. some barters are not goods but information and knowledge. wwhat will you place as a value on those. why not retitle your ever changing thread...
spread sheet for cruising.
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Old 07-09-2011, 20:27   #1875
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

but isn't that the point and the challenge?
to try and quantify and bracket the unpredictable costs
for those who haven't been there?

and i take your point, a sinking would be catastrophic.
thats why it is outside the brackets of typical.
i could contract colon cancer also, but that is also not typical.
a broken chain gypsy is (broke one myself in fact).

what is the typical "value" once must be expected to scrounge up
off the local economy or from other sources than cash if one is to cruise
on $500/month.

one gentleman commented he has refit his boat while cruising on $488/month.
For me, that would be improbable without some creative drawing on the local environment. Obviously he is very creative and good at it.

I seem to have hit some self sufficiency wall that refuses to acknowledge that
budget cruising relies to some extent on free contributions from others or the local economy.

When not cruising, i live on a mountaintop in the forest.
I have no phone, no mail delivery, only the electricity i can make myself,
i grow food, harvest timber for heat and building materials and my nearest neighbor
is over 3 miles away and there are no public roads to get here. I know what
self sufficiency means and it has a cost. I can quantify that cost
as well as the value i get from friends largesse in occasional loans of machinery
that i do not have to buy myself. In this day and age no one is completely self sufficient (though i am trying).
Many people move here and wish to try this lifestyle.
When people ask the costs, my replies include such things as the $240/year i don't
spend on rotovator rentals because a friend 84 miles away loans me one.
If they wish to try this lifestyle, they need to know that.
There are at least a dozen things i routinely depend on others contribution
to cut my costs. It is easily quantifiable.

I return the favours as well which is something harder to do
in the peripatetic lifestyle of cruising.

As one tries to do more with less, the reliance on outside sources seems
an important factor. (and perhaps those sources frustration with never
seeing the favors returned as more and more places ban cruisers from
using their formerly open facilities).

I have beaten this poor old horse to death.
Enjoy your cruising regardless of your budget.

we now return you to your regularly scheduled thread . . .

cheers
gello
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