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Old 14-05-2010, 04:07   #151
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Just going back to the subject of $500 per month, how does that seriously fit in with the practicalities of sailing around the Med, for example?
I assume an average cost of 40 euros each time you need to berth up somewhere - and this needs to be each time you want to buy food, take on water or fuel, or seek shelter from adverse weather. I would have thought that this will be required at least 5 times a month (ie 200 euros), and more likely to be double this amount.

Are there really many free moorings available around the Med, where you can take on food and water? I know there are numerous bays to drop anchor in, but these are normally miles from any form of civilisation!

Surely even the most cost-conscious sailor has to budget some serious funding to cover shelter from the weather, especially in the Med.
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Old 14-05-2010, 04:16   #152
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Is it really forty euros to berth a 26' boat in the med for a night? Wow.

I would never pay it. I would walk miles to any form of civilization just to avoid paying $40 to tie up. That is too much.
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Old 14-05-2010, 05:03   #153
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agreed, what about anchoring out and rowing the dinghy in, surely they dont charge 40eu to tie up a dinghy
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Old 14-05-2010, 05:05   #154
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Is it really forty euros to berth a 26' boat in the med for a night? Wow.

I would never pay it. I would walk miles to any form of civilization just to avoid paying $40 to tie up. That is too much.
Yes, but what happens when the weather turns really nasty? If sailing with a family, safety has to come before money.

The figure I quoted was for a 35ft-ish boat. We were paying 45 euros per night on average when we were sailing in Croatia last year. And in some places that didn't include showers. And in other cases water and electricity was extra. Some places even wanted to charge us when we dropped our own anchor in a sheltered bay close to amenities. We won't be going back to Croatia - we felt they were overcharging at every opportunity.

Does anyone know if you can still park for free in the Greek Islands? We used to be able to pull into village quays on the islands, and they never charged, although they did expect you to sample the cuisine at the local quayside restaurant.
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Old 14-05-2010, 08:46   #155
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Expensive Places....

There are expensive places in the Med, and the cheap..

If you really must cruise on $ 500 per month, you must balance your time so the cheap places
reduce your costs enough to make up for the time you spend in expensive places.

This is where an up to date cruising guide and networking pay off.

I cannot advise you regarding Med specifics... BUT.. you must plan on anchoring
out where ever and whenever you can... The safety issue mentioned is why you don't skimp on anchors or chain.. You will need to row in to the quay and get your provisions that way...

I have been told that Tunisia, Dalmatian Coast, Sicily, Balerics, Turkey and Morocco ate cheap.. Perhaps others might know additional places..

Also, your boat at 35 ft, is too big for this kind of cruising... we are limiting size to between 28-34 ft, and crew to no more than two...

If you are cruising with six people in a 35 ft boat, it will be very difficult for you to live on this small a budget... $ 750 / month is more realistic..

If your boat is complex, or your crew want to visit Monaco, or the French Riviera, even that is not enough.. Choosing where to go,, how much to spend there... is part of the fun... and a decision only you can make..

You may want to join a yacht club near home before you go... choose carefully, look for one that has reciprocal privileges in many of the places you want to visit.

INDY
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Old 14-05-2010, 10:15   #156
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Originally Posted by nikki-m View Post
Just going back to the subject of $500 per month, how does that seriously fit in with the practicalities of sailing around the Med, for example? .
Nikki, it doesn't. They are more talking about hiding out from society in Central America than cruising as you and I know it.

There is no magic in it as you point out water must be got. Its either paid for via a marina for gerry jugged via the dinghy. These subsistence level discussions are for those that can never go to a marina no matter the emergency; they must row ashore to get water from a free tap.
And thats just a start.

Each persons concept of cruising is different and these folks have an idea which may well work for them. But for folks like you and I it would be the closest thing to poisoning a great vacation!

Viva La Difference!





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Old 14-05-2010, 19:49   #157
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Each persons concept of cruising is different and these folks have an idea which may well work for them. But for folks like you and I it would be the closest thing to poisoning a great vacation!


Mark
I always thought of cruising as a way of life , not a vacation. That explains a lot of differences in attitude to expenses. Like the people who compare marina costs to a hotel room. I don't live in a hotel room.
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Old 14-05-2010, 22:47   #158
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I always thought of cruising as a way of life , not a vacation. That explains a lot of differences in attitude to expenses. Like the people who compare marina costs to a hotel room. I don't live in a hotel room.
I don't live in a hotel room either. I live at home. In my home I have a kitchen, bathrooms & bedrooms, not a galley, heads and cabins

Maybe the word 'vacation' doesn't fit, but nor does 'way of life' for me. The way I lead my life is my way of life and thats nothing to do with sailing its to do with honesty, integrety, humour, humlity, openess, imagination, inquisitvness and beer. Sailing is just my current way of living that life

And its sure more like a vacation than working!!!!!!!!



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Old 15-05-2010, 11:01   #159
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I'm always intrigued about cruising costs. I think it's possible to develop a budget but there are variables, such as:

1. Where are you cruising/anchoring/swallowing the hook? There are cheap places and outrageously expensive places to drop the hook (if you can).
2. Are you going across the pond or down the chain to the next island/marina/anchorage/gunk hole?
3. Are you prepared to pay the fees to visit new places? Some countries have higher entry and exit fees than others.
4. What are your eating habits? Do you enjoy eating simply, like/have a talent for fishing, enjoy eating local foods or using local foods in new and interesting ways. Do you know what the bargains are in your current location - and what to avoid?
5. Do you have skills that can offset professional services? Maintenance done by you is going to be cheaper than hiring someone (and sometimes better quality). Do you have the proper tools to do most of the tasks?
6. Do you carry boat and medical insurance? These two items can significantly affect your cruising budget.
7. How active are you when at an anchorage? Some folks like to poke around in the tender, others take tours, go for walks, or dive.
8. How big is your boat? The larger the vessel the higher the costs, whether monthly or yearly.
9. Did you go KISS or bring the kitchen sink? It should come as no surprise that simpler vessels have far cheaper monthly costs (Lin & Larry Pardy have proven that).
10. Can you pass on the annual/semiannual visits home? Some folks have to go home for a variety of reasons.
11. Are you easily (and cheaply) amused? Is your idea of a great day reading a book, snorkeling, cooking a great meal, fishing, or listening to music?
12. How self sufficient are you? Do you have a water catchment system for those rainy days? Can you lug water/fuel in 5-gallon jugs from the source to the boat? Can you live within your vessel's power limitations and still have a good time?

While I had a budget in mind, I was amazed how different the proposed expenses were compared to actual. I knew that feeding a family of 4 isn't twice the cost of feeding 2, it is more expensive. However, they use lots more water, 12V power, and seem to be in the fridge all the time. And having good fishing skills, enjoying the challenge of cooking local foods, or being handy doesn't add diesel to the tank, repair that leaking sea cock, or buy another fuel filter because the diesel you got in the last part was mostly diesel.

Overall, I'd tend to think that $500/mo/person is low. That number may have had more credence in 2000, but not 2010. I'd be pleased to get by on $600-750/mo/person. You might get away with $1200/mo/couple, if you're happy being on board, not attending all the pot lucks, not being sun-downer central, or not buying souvenirs, dinners, or drinks ashore.

One gotcha, based on personal experience, is don't think that if you're ahead for the quarter, you can splurge the next. I did that once to find out that after my raw water pump died, getting what would have been a $150 part cost me $470 and 4 weeks.

But we need some kind of idea, don't we. So, I'd suggest the following:
1. When on the boat, keep track of _every_ expense.
2. Keep a detailed record of maintenance costs.
3. Understand that a weekend aboard will probably bear no resemblance to a month aboard, cruising, and visiting different ports/countries.
4. A month's receipts have no correlation to a year's receipts.
5. Take the annual maintenance expenses (zincs, bottom paint, hull cleaning, propane, oil, filters, life raft inspections, fire extinguisher checks/replacements, safety items, etc.) and divide that by 10, not 12.
6. Don't forget that things break, including you. Boat bites, cuts, scratches, medical problems and the like need attention.
7. You might think that the first year cruising will be the cheapest but I found out it was the 2nd and 3rd that was far more realistic. It took time for me to adjust to the cruising lifestyle, develop good habits, and stick to the budget. Planning ahead is nice but there are times when it's an exercise if futility or aggravation. I learned what items seemed to wear out the fastest (raw water impellers, fresh water pump rebuild kits and motors, head parts, etc.) and which ones seemed to last forever. I adjusted my inventory to carry more of those spares rather than others.

Finally, not having a budget shouldn't prevent or deter you from cruising. Cruising costs what it costs. You should have a rough idea but be prepared to modify your expectations and life style to align the two. Spending more than you make may be common for governments but the rest of us have learned to live within our means. Cruising is worth the uncertainty.
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Old 15-05-2010, 13:38   #160
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Things that are different in 2010 from 10 or more years ago;
Potable water is not free - you have to purchase it or steal it.
Engine Oil is now $20+ per gallon
Check-in/out fees are increasing even as much as 2x, 3x 300x
Boat parts are 2x or 3x the cost or more or just not available anymore for older equipment.
Shipping costs for boat parts can cost $100 to $400 depending upon location and weight
Food is double and sales taxes have double or tripled and are now applied to food
Technical Repair services as 2x or 3x more expensive and average in the US$75 to $100 per hour range. The rate you paid in the US is now also the rate outside the US. They learned that trick quickly.
Insurances - medical and boat are astronomically higher or just not available (e.g. long term absence from Canada)
- - All of this makes attempting to live on $500/mo per person or per boat very highly unlikely unless you stay in your home waters or you avoid stopping at most of the popular islands.
- - IMHO the "inflation rate" reduces currency value to half of what it was a decade ago in terms of real purchasing power. Add in the forever need of any government for more revenue makes that transient cruisers a juicy target for extracting money.
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Old 15-05-2010, 21:18   #161
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You don't really need humble opinions about inflation when there are statistics.

Inflation in the last decade was 28.40 percent.
In between 1990 and 2000 it was 32.50 percent.

Inflation Rate Calculator- from InflationData.com

So the situation is not as dire as you perceive it to be.
Really, I believe that it can be done on $500 per month. You just don't have the right mindset. Get a boat with less (expensive, heavy) parts!
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Old 16-05-2010, 02:14   #162
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Get some balls, go out and do, you'll live through it.
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Old 16-05-2010, 02:15   #163
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Re: $500 a mont from my above post
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Old 16-05-2010, 06:23   #164
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You don't really need humble opinions about inflation when there are statistics ...
This might be an example of how a perfectly good statistic can be misused, so as to be unresponsive.

Do you think that the CPI index “basket” (upon which inflation rates are calculated) is at all representative of a cruiser’s actual living expenses?
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Old 16-05-2010, 06:35   #165
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I will second GordMay and add that government statistics are the last place I would look for the truth. I look at the actual money I have spent on living as I track most every nickel I have spent for the last 20+ years. And in terms of cost of "real" living, be it inside or outside the USA the amount of money has doubled each 10 years. Look at real prices of cars, food, housing, and medical and you will see triple digit inflation (or more accurately loss of buying power of the dollar) each decade. Governments, where ever they are, are not going to publish figures that might lead to a revolt or even worse getting their butts voted out of office.
- - Nothing new about this, as it happens all over the world, I just finished downloading some really old classic movies and we have been watching them. Lots of 1950's and 1960's stuff. In the movies they talk about living well on pennies, copecks, even pence in amounts that we don't even keep in our pockets but throw into charity jars as too little to bother with.
- - This leads me to the assumption that the $500/mo/person or boat is put forth by people thinking was it was like for them a decade or more ago rather than what that $500/mo has been "inflated" to today which is closer to $1K/mo. A decade ago I was living on board in the D.R. and couldn't spend $300/month while eating every meal ashore and drinking copious amount of Presidente and rum. Fancy Watermakers were $2500, bilge pumps under $20, diesel around $1. Today those exact same watermakers are $8K, bilge pumps $200; diesel in the $3 to 4 range. Living on a cruising boat somehow makes landlubber vendors, parts suppliers and just most of the locals think we are "filthy rich," So everything "for a boat" is priced up significantly above what the same item would cost for an RV or home owner. I know that because when possible I buy my pumps and other parts from RV supply stores and save significant money over West Marina, Budget or Island Waterworld prices.
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