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Old 16-05-2011, 17:49   #1486
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Wow oh wow oh wow.... Quite a thread.. How many of you have ever cruised? I built the Gaitweigh probably could have bout a production boat for what she cost me... but She is what I want and feel I need she is 47 feet overall weighs 16 tons and is a very stable platform for a 55 year old solo sailor... who budgets 600 a month and usually has a bit left over.. I've spent more some months but I have been doing it my way....

My point get what suits you spend what you can and JUST DO IT don't listen to others, live outside the box that's why we cruise... Enjoy life hope I haven't offended any of you who think you know what it takes but have never done it beyond the vacation stage that in my mind being 4 months
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Old 16-05-2011, 17:55   #1487
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pirate Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by capttman View Post
Wow oh wow oh wow.... Quite a thread.. How many of you have ever cruised? I built the Gaitweigh probably could have bout a production boat for what she cost me... but She is what I want and feel I need she is 47 feet overall weighs 16 tons and is a very stable platform for a 55 year old solo sailor... who budgets 600 a month and usually has a bit left over.. I've spent more some months but I have been doing it my way....

My point get what suits you spend what you can and JUST DO IT don't listen to others, live outside the box that's why we cruise... Enjoy life hope I haven't offended any of you who think you know what it takes but have never done it beyond the vacation stage that in my mind being 4 months
ROFL...
No offense taken mate...

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Old 16-05-2011, 19:38   #1488
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Regarding how "unsuitable" our boat is for our needs... I don't agree.

Oue Searunner 34 is seaworthy enough for a family to go around the world by way of Cape Horn. It has been done, on the same size sistership! This is not counting the dozens of other circumnavigations, and hundreds if not thousands of major passages made on Searunners in general. They are certainly in the top 5 of the most seaworthy of all designs of either variety, if you count successful, safe, sea miles, over 45 years, by mostly husband & wife crews.

For us, cruising was more about the diving in clear tropical water, and just living an adventurous anchored out life. We lived on Delphys as our ONLY home for over 12 years, spent thousands of nights on the hook, (100% solar powered), rode out NUMEROUS hurricanes, visited well over 20 countries, and covered something well over 20,000 miles... (Although, that was never the point).

For us "the point" was about leisurely walks on shore to "mingle", the thousands of hours spent free diving for dinner, and hundreds of visits from our cruising friends in the anchorage, to share that dinner with us. As much as possible of this, was in a mellow, friendly, clear water, tropical place. THAT was OUR point... Searunners are GREAT for this!

Compared to a 34' monohull... It just couldn't do OUR "seasteading" lifestyle at all, (EQUALLY EQUIPPED), without total kayos living conditions, with stuff mounded all over on deck, tied to the lifelines, and/or no room left below.

On our boat, without crowding or ANY stacking of one thing on the other...
TOTALLY WITHIN THE AMAS: We have an inflatable kayak, 6 empty water jugs, 3 empty fuel jugs, the "bagged" Fortress hurricane anchor, 600' parachute rode, a complete dinghy accessories/seat & oars kit, the garden sprayer shower, clothes washing bucket, clear bottomed viewing bucket, 2 @14' long awning poles, fishing poles, 2 spear guns, a SCUBA tank, an 8 HP OB motor, the spinnaker & sock in a bag, 4 large fenders, a bin of boat spares, an epoxy & paint repair kit, misc. crab pot floats, 6 life jackets, Padded waterproof backpack, telescoping & folding dolly, etc. ALL this @ under 200 pounds per hull, for safety reasons.

Up on deck, we have ONLY one thing tied down on the entire boat, it is the deflated & strapped down 9.6" RIB on it's cradle, which is utterly storm proven here. It is easily launched with the roller on the back of the wing.

The three "dry hatch/self draining & vented wing anchor lockers, contain 3 of the 4 anchors, their rodes/chain, ALL dock lines & extra long spares, the hull bottom maintenance kit, and both my & my wifes dive gear & 4 wet suits, boots, fins, etc.

None of this large, wet, and/or stinky stuff goes below, or decreases the space below, NOR is it piled on top of a lot of other stuff in a cockpit lazeretts.

Below the 6' + SQUARE cockpit, in this middle 1/3rd of the boat, is all of the explosive fluids in a draining sub floor & LP tank in the same area. The dinghy motor tank goes here too. Further down, under this sub floor, is space for the 5 tool boxes, batteries, engine, ALL tankage, hurricane rodes, HUGE awning, etc. This puts the really HEAVY stuff, which equals a large portion of the weight of the boat, easily accessible, at or below the WL, in the middle 1/3rd of the boat. Regarding motion & knockdowns, it is the most seaworthy arrangement in multihulls to date!

The front cabin has a dedicated head compartment, with it's 30 gallon holding tank below the sole, made out of the glassed hull itself. Then comes the sit down dressing area. This "vanity" has both a seat & sink/counter, as well as 2 off season clothes storage areas in the wings, that are the size of the trunk in a mid sized car! almost in the middle of the boat, under the cockpit seats, there are two 4' wide by 7' long bunks... each with sitting headroom, ports, lights, and fans.

In the back cabin there are 2 nav and/or galley areas of about 4' X 4' each. further back is the "sterncastle", that seats 4 comfortably. There has a sliding table, with the refrigerator under the sole, "in the coolest place". There is a rolled up cushion further back that makes the floor into yet another bunk. (The best place for off watch, when going to windward in 40 knots & 15' seas). YUCK!

In these conditions we stand watch under the hard dodger that connects to a complete cockpit enclosure, for relative comfort.

It's not only suitable... It is the best layout of any 34' boat I have ever seen, for the type of cruising that we choose to do. The "just @ 3' draft" with the board up, allows us to anchor in FAR more circumstances than with deeper draft, as well as far more hurricane tie off options. (We can run the East Coast ICW with no marina stays)! Our regular speed of 8 or 9 knots, (even to windward), when others would be going 5 or 6, has been both fun AND a great safety feature! It allows us to out run a lot of bad weather, and our "Trinidad to Beaufort NC sail" in just 12 sea days, (during H season), would've been much more dangerous on a boat that doesn't really sail well.

It is NOT, however, a good marina boat, or good in cold winters. It isn't soundproof at all, and is hard to heat or air condition, (although we have done both). This is why, when we had to go back to work, we rented a house to keep the boat in cruising mode. This is where she really shines, and we now cruise locally as much as we can... Until the next BIG one!

Starting 21 years ago, right after we got married...
Because we lived in a camper while we built a house out of pocket "ourselves", and then built the boat. The cost of ALL of this was relatively low. (Like $5,000 to $8,000 per year) When money got low, we stopped spending money on the project.

When the boat was done, we sold the house at a profit for the "cruising kitty", and she became our only home. Because we NEVER use debt, on the house or the boat, we could pull up and "go" at will. Because we had no health, or boat insurance, and no jobs at the time... (= no income taxes), our expenses were solely food and boat maintenance. While cruising, we always avoided marinas. There were occasional inland trips, like inland Guatemala, Areciebo PR, all over Eleuthera, etc. and this is where I wish the most that we had had more money to spend.

While we were certainly among the least funded cruisers we met, (especially those over 50), we managed to "live cheap" while enjoying life at the same time. Our having a boat design that so perfectly lends itself to the "seasteading" lifestyle, was a large reason that it has worked so well for us.

Mark
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Old 16-05-2011, 19:40   #1489
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
ROFL...
No offense taken mate...

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Dido I think!

Boatman are you writing from that bar in Oriental again?
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Old 16-05-2011, 19:59   #1490
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pirate Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Dido I think!

Boatman are you writing from that bar in Oriental again?
Wot... the Silo's Pizza Palace....
Or are you thinking M&M's.... trouble with that place is it closes at 9.30....
Very nice but wierd town... most folks go to bed at 9pm and get up and go jogging and bike riding at 6am....
I know... I've seen em on my way back to the boat after anight out...
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Old 16-05-2011, 20:00   #1491
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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We are getting into a corner of "what is cruising?" and since I would surmise that the vast amount of CF posters are land based they define cruising as going out for a weekend or maybe a week or two in the Bahamas. Nothing wrong with that, in my opinion cruising is using a vessel to "go places and see things" be it for a weekend or a decade.
- - For those cruising short term or near distances with limited time, speed is certainly a major factor and here is where multi's shine.
- - For those whose ideas of cruising is a life-time endeavor or at least a significant length of time which normally includes divesting all land based houses and attachments, the choice of vessels is quite different.
- - In this realm, safety, security and the ability of the vessel to take a major beating, storms and downright nasty conditions and keep the cruisers within it alive and safe simply by the very design nature of the vessel.
- - I categorize sailing vessels as 3 different kinds: coastal or day sailors which are fast, nimble and fun to sail. Secondly are the Island boats which are set up for 1000 nm of hop, skipping and jumping down island or around continents keeping their cruisers comfortable and still provide speed and fun on passages. Finally, there are the "green water" boats which are heavy displacement, usually deep draft for their LOA and only want to go straight forward through thick and thin. They are definitely not fast, definitely not nimble, and trying to get one to go any which way other than straight is an exercise in creativity. These vessels ply the oceans for months at a time and provide the means for the cruisers to visit the far flung corners of the earth.
- - Of course, folks have crossed oceans in any and every type of thing that can float, but for the world cruiser stability and strength is desired above all else and is frequently discussed in other sections of CF.
- - I personally envision this particular thread as a source of information for those potential world cruisers or those desiring to leave their land lives behind and take to life on the oceans. As such they are looking for substantial, simple, and rugged small vessels that can take them to their dream destinations with the absolute minimum of cost and trouble.
- - I meet these cruisers all the time in the eastern Caribbean "putting" along under sail at 3 to 4 knots with a leg over the tiller and a good book in their hands. They don't need any fancy chart plotters, autopilots, electrical systems beyond basic communications and required common sense safety items. They live a life and experience their dreams at half the speed I do in my large vessel but at also a fraction of the cost. So this thread for me at least sets out how can you do that for those dreaming of such a life.
Damn! Well written and well thought out. Thank you for you in-put and thank you for your insight. Please keep giving your thoughts. I, for one, learn from you.
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Old 16-05-2011, 20:20   #1492
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by Mark Johnson View Post
Regarding how "unsuitable" our boat is for our needs... ..................Up on deck, we have ONLY one thing tied down on the entire boat, it is the deflated & strapped down 9.6" RIB on it's cradle, which is utterly storm proven here. It is easily launched with the roller on the back of the wing...............

Starting 21 years ago, right after we got married...

While we were certainly among the least funded cruisers we met, (especially those over 50), we managed to "live cheap" while enjoying life at the same time................
Mark
Mark, I found your post enjoyable and inspiring. Allow me to "play" by pointing out that, from the photo included, I see that your mast is also a thing tied down to your deck by numerous shrouds and the solar panel appears to be secured too! Today (actually this very day) is our own 41st anniversary with liveaboard cruising starting right after we got married. We are also not well funded cruisers, but managing to "live cheap" and enjoy life at the same time.......'certainly living on less than our income,- that seems to be the rule for success. Thanks again for an inspiring post.
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Old 16-05-2011, 20:37   #1493
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by Mark Johnson View Post
Regarding how "unsuitable" our boat is for our needs... I don't agree.

Oue Searunner 34 is seaworthy enough for a family to go around the world by way of Cape Horn. It has been done, on the same size sistership! This is not counting the dozens of other circumnavigations, and hundreds if not thousands of major passages made on Searunners in general. They are certainly in the top 5 of the most seaworthy of all designs of either variety, if you count successful, safe, sea miles, over 45 years, by mostly husband & wife crews....


Mark
Even though I have a mono hull I really like the idea of a multi for living in the tropics which I am doing more and more. Mark makes a lot of good points (IMHO) regarding his tri and a couple really stuck out for me as things that are real important to a micro-budget cruiser.

1. The ability to anchor in many more places due to the extremely shallow draft. Micro-budget cruisers need to avoid marinas like the plague and this ability is a big cost saver.

2. The additional living space on deck, especially in the tropics. Having lived aboard a mono in some hot areas, as everyone probably knows, it become unbearable down below so you spend as much time as possible on deck under the awning. To have the additional space a mult offers on deck is a huge plus in my book.

3. Also related to the additional deck space provided by the multi is the ability to easily carry a hard dinghy or an inflatable without have to deflate it. Most mono that have been discussed here for the mico-budget cruiser are not large enough to have deck space for a hard dinghy so they must carry an inflatable and store it below which is a real pain in my opinion.
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Old 16-05-2011, 21:15   #1494
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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As others have mentioned, waiting 5 or 10 years to get out there is not what the initial questions about minimalist cruising were directed to - it was how can it be done now.
And thats how I started in 1985... with a shattered left leg in grp cast for 18mths.... went out and bought an abandoned wooden boat for 600quid and slowly fixed her up to stop myself going crazy with boredom and self pity...
speed increased when the cast came off....
Called her 'Double B'.... 'Broke and Brainless'...
Lived on Social Security during this time... it took 7yrs for the insurance to be sorted...
I'm not talking IMHO.... its fact not opinion and I've never regret ed a day since...
So yes... I think I've got some valid points to make for the truly financially disabled who want to get afloat..
I sail minimalist... many of you guys in the States would not dream of launching some of my boats let alone solo across the Atlantic in one... or the Med come to that...
I deliver what Yacht Masters walk away from... have faith in my knowledge and ability and am comfortable enough to make fun of myself...
And as for the 'A boat of 25ft LWL doing 170 miles/24hr day' and '1200miles in 7 days'... thats a joke... no budget sailors going to abuse his boat like that... and thats the hole in the argument... its all theory... out theres reality mate
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Old 16-05-2011, 21:28   #1495
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Don't tell me you laid up that GRP leg cast yourself?

Just to be fair... I don't think Americans are the only one's that would be skeptical about crossing the pond in one of your boats
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Old 16-05-2011, 21:33   #1496
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pirate Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Don't tell me you laid up that GRP leg cast yourself?

Just to be fair... I don't think Americans are the only one's that would be skeptical about crossing the pond in one of your boats
What... not even my 2001 Beneteau 331....
Mind.... most in Oriental thought I'd sink and drown in my Cherubini 37....
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Old 16-05-2011, 21:41   #1497
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Oriental, where they go to bed at 9pm and go jogging at 6am? You should visit a few more cities in the US my friend...

I'd probably be more confident in the Corribee than the Cherubini

You're right though... 'most' people in the US won't even consider a classic 30 footer for cruising, they think it's gotta be "perfect" in some way or another...

The Ad agencies have this all figured out.... Lucky for us though, this means the cheap 30 footers are cheaper than ever, and the "nice" 25 footers are more expensive than the "cheap" 40 footers

Consumerist economies do have their benefits
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Old 16-05-2011, 21:56   #1498
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Consumerist economies do have their benefits
Like eBay right!
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Old 16-05-2011, 22:01   #1499
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Like eBay right!
Thats right
The secondhand market is BOOMING!

And I hear the oil industry is doing ok too
I'm hoping to become a roughneck by the end of next year, to finance the cruise south
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Old 17-05-2011, 12:52   #1500
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Re: Weight and Balance....

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Originally Posted by goprisko View Post
Much earlier, I posted a proforma mass balance for a micro-cruising boat.

This balance covered items such as:

Anchoring Gear
Head
Galley
Saloon
Sails
Windvane
Water
Fuel
Provisions
Spares
Electrical

The total mass can be found between pp 28-36 and is ~ 3000 #
...
INDY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Johnson View Post
...
On our boat, without crowding or ANY stacking of one thing on the other...
TOTALLY WITHIN THE AMAS: We have an inflatable kayak, 6 empty water jugs, 3 empty fuel jugs, the "bagged" Fortress hurricane anchor, 600' parachute rode, a complete dinghy accessories/seat & oars kit, the garden sprayer shower, clothes washing bucket, clear bottomed viewing bucket, 2 @14' long awning poles, fishing poles, 2 spear guns, a SCUBA tank, an 8 HP OB motor, the spinnaker & sock in a bag, 4 large fenders, a bin of boat spares, an epoxy & paint repair kit, misc. crab pot floats, 6 life jackets, Padded waterproof backpack, telescoping & folding dolly, etc. ALL this @ under 200 pounds per hull, for safety reasons.
...
Mark
Mark,
I wonder if you have an estimate of your cargo's weight when fully loaded (total displacement minus lightship displacement)? Indy suggested 3000 lbs. Pardys' plan for 4000 lbs for two when cruising both in cold and warm weather.

I'm also curious how you decide how much weight you can safely stow in the amas? Since their primary function is to provide buoyancy to resist heeling it seems that any additional weight they have to carry results, potentially, in less stability in a nasty situation.
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