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Old 26-01-2014, 18:25   #1
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Cruising Ketches with a squaresail

I remember years ago seeing pictures of cruising ketches using a square sail. It was a common thing before spinnakers. They raised a lightweight yard to the top of their staysail halyard, and had a triangular sail above the yard to the peak of the outer Jib / Jenoa halyard.
Below this, they had a square sail with the bottom about half as wide as at the yard... The whole thing was furled by pulling the sail into the mast like as a shower curtain... It could be furled from the deck...


Am looking for pictures, diagrams
Thanks, Lewis
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Old 26-01-2014, 19:13   #2
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Re: Cruising Ketches with a squaresail

Found a thread on here "adding a square sail". Wooden boat also had some. Google is your friend but this one will take some digging and you still may not find much. I have been looking for " mule sail " info not much out there on those either.
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Old 26-01-2014, 22:13   #3
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Re: Cruising Ketches with a squaresail

Here's one:

Maurice Griffiths Gaff Rigged Ketch with Square Sail Rig For Sale in Greece - Crete

(see second image in slideshow)
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Old 26-01-2014, 22:34   #4
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Re: Cruising Ketches with a squaresail

These can be very efficient rigs in the trade winds
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Old 27-01-2014, 07:38   #5
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Re: Cruising Ketches with a squaresail

I believe this sail is called a "raffee".


Useful in light airs downwind with a preventered main and mizzen, I would think, particularly when the wind isn't, as is often the case in summer, coming down to the water.
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Old 27-01-2014, 14:07   #6
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Re: Cruising Ketches with a squaresail

A ketch with a squaresail (Course) set on the main mast is called a Hermaphrodite ketch, whereas a schooner with a squaresail on the foremast is a Brigantine.
A square sail correctly braced and sheeted is a fabulous down wind sail, and even when the wind is thee points of the stern. The main problem is usually furling and unfurling them, particularly on short handed boats, or if you leave it late.
There are different methods of setting the sail, it can be pulled in and out on a track on the yard, like curtains. Or it can be sheaved from the yard arms and gooseneck and hauled up from the deck. There are other methods, but none can be reefed, they are either up or down, and this is very dangerous.
The only way to reef a squaresail used to be the old fashioned method, sending hands along the yard to either furl or reef.
I solved these problems on my 45’ schooner, and can furl and unfurl my fore course single handed from the cockpit. I can also progressively reef it, which means I can leave it pulling even in a strong wind.
The system on explained on my website, and there is no reason why it cannot be fitted to a ketch—except for the name.
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Old 27-01-2014, 19:19   #7
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Re: Cruising Ketches with a squaresail

Alchemy, is that the Yankee???. There has been a 48 foot ketch with a square yard on the Monterey Craigslist for months. Dirt cheep, must be something wrong there. If you can drop the yard to the deck, if you have to go to weather, it is probably OK, but if you cant drop the yard, you will have a dog to weather. Just another opinion. ____Grant.
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Old 28-01-2014, 05:28   #8
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Re: Cruising Ketches with a squaresail

Hi gjordan,
I'm always interested in looking at other square sail setups, but I can't find that one on the Monterey Craigslist. Can you post a link please?
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Old 28-01-2014, 05:38   #9
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Re: Cruising Ketches with a squaresail

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Lewis.
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Old 28-01-2014, 05:44   #10
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Re: Cruising Ketches with a squaresail

Look up Jay Benford's designs. Lots of answers there.
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Old 28-01-2014, 05:52   #11
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Re: Cruising Ketches with a squaresail

Read Gentlemen Never Sail to Weather: The Story of an Accidental Odyssey: Denton R. Moore: 9780962882838: Amazon.com: Books
Story of Denny Moore's circumnavigation in a ketch with a rafee
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Old 28-01-2014, 07:29   #12
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Re: Cruising Ketches with a squaresail

Quote:
Originally Posted by gjordan View Post
Alchemy, is that the Yankee???. There has been a 48 foot ketch with a square yard on the Monterey Craigslist for months. Dirt cheep, must be something wrong there. If you can drop the yard to the deck, if you have to go to weather, it is probably OK, but if you cant drop the yard, you will have a dog to weather. Just another opinion. ____Grant.
Grant/Jolly Roger: That was just a Google Image Search for the word "raffee".

It was the first example that seemed to match what I meant.

Here's the schooner Denis Sullivan, sporting a raffee without a course beneath, but rather the usual gaff-rigged sails.



While I saw a book cover illustration of a raffee on what seemed to be a Bermuda rigged cutter sloop some years ago, and have read of "experiments" hauling up topsails in small yachts, it seems somewhere between unknown and unpopular a tactic.
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Old 28-01-2014, 09:06   #13
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Re: Cruising Ketches with a squaresail

Jolly Rogers, I went looking on craigslist, and can not find the boat right now. It has been on and off of the site for the last year or so. A double ended, wood ketch. Looks nice in the photos, but says NEEDS WORK, we all know what that can mean. I think it was listed at around 10K$. At that price it must need lots of work. If I see it again, I will let you know. _____Grant.
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Old 28-01-2014, 10:06   #14
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Re: Cruising Ketches with a squaresail

Quote:
Originally Posted by gjordan View Post
Jolly Rogers, I went looking on craigslist, and can not find the boat right now. It has been on and off of the site for the last year or so. A double ended, wood ketch. Looks nice in the photos, but says NEEDS WORK, we all know what that can mean. I think it was listed at around 10K$. At that price it must need lots of work. If I see it again, I will let you know. _____Grant.
Hate to point this out, but a boat built from mahongany or teak or iroko planking and oak frames is worth more than $10K lovingly disassembled than as a floating boat.

I have picked up some interesting and large pieces of teak from the boatyard garbage skips over the years, large enough that I wouldn't want to pay the price for new. Recycling at its finest!
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