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Old 16-02-2015, 14:10   #76
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Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

These "What does it cost to cruise?" threads always seem to end the same way.

Why don't we have a "What does it cost to live in a house on land? thread and see how that goes?
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Old 16-02-2015, 17:08   #77
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Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
Maybe you should made an attempt when looking for a post to trash that you look for all of them on the thread about the subject.

I have posted more than once that unless you are cruising and living on the boat that the only reason to own a boat is because you like to sail/boat.

It is people like you that made me wonder why they have a boat!

I have a MBA an bet I understand money a lot better than you.
How were you able to skip the basic grammar and spelling courses at MBA school?
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Old 16-02-2015, 20:09   #78
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Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

Kenomac!

Kenomac, since when did you become a grammar grandpa? SB1 could just have made two typos.

Sorry to see weavis slammed, but he's a big boy, and will doubtless use the Queen's English to advantage, should he choose to reply.

Ann
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Old 16-02-2015, 21:54   #79
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Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Kenomac!

Kenomac, since when did you become a grammar grandpa? SB1 could just have made two typos.

Sorry to see weavis slammed, but he's a big boy, and will doubtless use the Queen's English to advantage, should he choose to reply.

Ann
Not tonight miss Ann. 4:15 AM here in Blighty and had to do a couple of house calls...... kinda busy. sent one to hospital with a broken foot, and finished the night with a lovely older lady in her early 80's who lost her husband last October, and gets panic attacks from time to time.

We are trying to arrange a live in carer because she doesnt want to move. We have this arrangement that if she is not feeling good, she phones the clinic and as she lives very close, she comes in and one of the staff will make her a cup of tea and give time in the staff room with her if not too busy. Everyones favourite person.

They were a lovely couple and were so kind to me when I moved here and continued on at the clinic when I took over. Yes....... she even baked me fruit pies when she found out I was single.

My nephew has promised her a day out on the Centaur, but we need to wait till better weather. However as the Colvic Watson is now back in the water, and warm as toast with the heating on, plus enclosed wheelhouse, we will probably make a day of it with all the Staff and her pretty soon. My girls are C R A Z Y!! it will be a fun day. I think we will sail from Bristol to Cardiff and let them all experience the sea lock there. Mrs J has told me that she wants to steer the boat. Im sure we can arrange that.
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Old 16-02-2015, 23:28   #80
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Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

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How were you able to skip the basic grammar and spelling courses at MBA school?
Unfortunately, our postings are often subject to 'autocorrect' that changes some of mistakes for the better and vice-versa.
MBA school? Is there really such a thing? I am familiar with Universities/colleges etc but an MBA school? Wow, never heard of such a thing. Anyhow, most places offering such education also acknowledge that spelling and grammar errors do not prohibit one from graduating. On my last Masters course (University of Liverpool) I witnessed some truly horrendous matters in this regard. The folk involved did not have English as their first language and still graduated - its the PC way of the world, be it right or wrong to others. I wished we could stop slamming each other and concentrate on providing assistance to each other rather than the negativity - often, but not always, from arm chair sailors. Nothing wrong with the chair dwellers expressing their opinions, but when they insist on the validity of their points of view it does become irritating.
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Old 17-02-2015, 18:02   #81
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Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

Rather than getting hung-up on the cost, I prefer to think of it as a lifestyle and one of life's experiences. If it's something you want to do, budget to make it happen. Everyone has their own level of available money to spend on this dream, just make your own budget work for you.
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Old 17-02-2015, 22:48   #82
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Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

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Perhaps, but shouldn't you be tracking your current expenses, in order to add those to the ongoing costs when you take those vacations? To get an accurate picture, you have to average it all in, including your purchase price, current slip fees, outfitting, insurance and maintenance over the years you owned the boat before striking out on your adventure.

Sure, the value of your adventure will be priceless, but the costs can be calculated even when you start taking trips to look for a boat.
We do! We keep a detailed budget but its co-mingled with our regular budget so I won't publish it. Right now in the US we have a budget of $3000 a month but that includes a lot of stuff that is for my work and for completely discretionary purposes, plus some rainy day savings (new sails!).

We did spend a lot - a lot - of cash up front to upgrade our boat but in the end, we are only in the hole about $150K for a completely renovated boat. We pretty much replaced or rebuilt all of the ships systems and everything. The list is extensive. However, that $150K was just a small part of my mortgage when we owned a house.

Our goal is $2000 a month though, which frankly is not that difficult to hit, but we most often get closer to $3K. For example, we tend to spend a lot of time in urban locations on the east coast just because its close to a major airports for me - so $$$. We spend a lot of time/money going out on the town and doing all that expensive touristy stuff we can afford to do while I'm employed. In reality, when we are watching our expenses, or when we are bored, we do very well on $24,000 a year but even most of that is discretionary. In fact, we often hit $1200 a month (not including savings) and still go out, still eat and drink like kings, etc. This may also include car rentals ($40 for a weekend at Enterprise) to go see stuff and run errands where its cheaper to shop, and often a mooring for a month.

The trick is to not spend a lot of money at bars or on things you don't really need. I think after a while, as you get older, you naturally tend to drink less alcohol, so we don't spend nearly as much as we used to in this regard. Also, my wife is a very light drinker... maybe 6 or 8 total "drinks" in a week (thanks god she was cheap to date!). I'm also cheap - I can't stomach paying $8 for a beer that I know I can buy at the local grocery for $2. Unless out with friends of course.

Also, we have mastered the art of simply avoidance of places we know we will spend money on crap we really don't need... for example Lowes, Home Depot, West Marine. We simply don't go.

We almost never ever take a slip. Maybe 10 or 12 days last year.

While we REALLY REALLY REALLY want to cut our ties and head out - I'm gainfully employed so thats a very hard decision to make considering that the east coast has a lot left for us to see. We haven't even been north of the Chesapeake (yet).

Living on the boat has been a real game changer for us in the way we spend. For example, it used to be when we first got the boat that I would buy every chemical advised by the instructions or because I read some blog somewhere saying that X product is great. Now that we have been around the block we have whittled down our chems to just about two dozen items that we find work very well for us, we will buy them in smaller quantities so when they spill or fall overboard its not a great loss, plus they are easier to store.
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Old 18-02-2015, 00:45   #83
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Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

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Way I look at it is this.. as the average Joe..
Buy an average 2-3 bed house in the UK for 250K over 25yrs add on the interest and your talking a hefty monthly payment and you REALLY need to keep a job.. on top of that the cost of living, keeping up with the 'Jones's'.. excessive socialising in restaurants/clubs etc.. cars and other related land costs...
2 bedroom steel boat.. cost around 35K.. debt free... choose your mobile work choice and learn it well.. EU-USA.. matters not there's a huge cruising ground that can be harvested and income gleaned if one's needs are simple and skills are sought..
So already your well ahead by nearly a million... and that's before travel costs come into it...
But that's not an apples to apples comparison. The guy expecting to live in a 250k house is likely not going to be content with a 35k boat, reality is he either has to cut his expectations drastically or expect to pay something around 250k for the boat.

That was my point regarding muddying the waters with apples and oranges comparisons. If you compare similar lifestyle expectations it costs about the same.
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Old 18-02-2015, 01:25   #84
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Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

It is possible to travel in a financially efficient manner on a sailboat, that's nice. But to me the greatest advantage over regular tourism is that when you arrive somewhere you are normally required to interact with some real people (buy food, boat repairs, port captains.....) rather than some smiling mannequin at a hotel desk who is paid to say "have a nice day".
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Old 18-02-2015, 05:33   #85
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Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Way I look at it is this.. as the average Joe..
Buy an average 2-3 bed house in the UK for 250K over 25yrs add on the interest and your talking a hefty monthly payment and you REALLY need to keep a job.. on top of that the cost of living, keeping up with the 'Jones's'.. excessive socialising in restaurants/clubs etc.. cars and other related land costs...
2 bedroom steel boat.. cost around 35K.. debt free... choose your mobile work choice and learn it well.. EU-USA.. matters not there's a huge cruising ground that can be harvested and income gleaned if one's needs are simple and skills are sought..
So already your well ahead by nearly a million... and that's before travel costs come into it...
Dear Boatman61, I am not sure if such a scenario is feasible. If average Joe has a big mortgage & struggles with that, how shall he finance a boat to go sailing? Most youngsters we meet save hard for a couple of years and buy a basic boat & work their way around. Others (substantially older) rent out their paid for house and live on that income. These are pretty typical average Joes that we come across. Yet others take a sabbatical, and budget for that fixed period. Simple fact is that if everyone could afford a house and to go cruising full time then there would be more boats out there, Governments would create ways to tax us more and the cycle would start over. There is no simple solution in this complex world and we each have to find our own method. That generally means paying for your boat 100% before leaving and then having an income of typically $1000 per month or more. The actual amount required shall depend on your chosen cruising area and your desired way of living. $1K per month in the Indian Ocean and you can live very well. $1K per month in other area's and you shall struggle. What happens when you get to a new cruising area? Do you wish to travel inland? Or just sit at anchor looking at the view? Sail around the world and see places from your cockpit only? Your own aspirations and requirements shall dictate your budget as well as the minimum required for visa's and permits.
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Old 18-02-2015, 05:42   #86
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But that's not an apples to apples comparison. The guy expecting to live in a 250k house is likely not going to be content with a 35k boat, reality is he either has to cut his expectations drastically or expect to pay something around 250k for the boat.

That was my point regarding muddying the waters with apples and oranges comparisons. If you compare similar lifestyle expectations it costs about the same.
Have you seen what 250K buys you in London... an alley with a roof on... got as much room on a 35ftr.. and no taxes..
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Old 18-02-2015, 06:02   #87
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Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

If we use our boat that I bought for $115k, spend $3k month traveling while also maintaining the boat, sell the boat in 10 years for $60k; it comes out to $3458/mo or $115/day for 2 people.

Useless we become a back packers, or maybe travel in a van, I don't feel we could travel and see as much in 10 years for as we can by doing it via our boat for $115/day.
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Old 18-02-2015, 06:36   #88
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Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

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Have you seen what 250K buys you in London... an alley with a roof on... got as much room on a 35ftr.. and no taxes..
Now tack on the marina fees for central london and the long term price works out similar to the 250k place (maybe higher)

Again, you have to change your expectations for the cheap boat to beat the expensive house. If you accept a marina a ways outside central london, you can get the marina prices down but you don't have central london living.

Of course, london cost of living is a crazy outlier anyway.
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Old 18-02-2015, 06:50   #89
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Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

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If we use our boat that I bought for $115k, spend $3k month traveling while also maintaining the boat, sell the boat in 10 years for $60k; it comes out to $3458/mo or $115/day for 2 people.

Useless we become a back packers, or maybe travel in a van, I don't feel we could travel and see as much in 10 years for as we can by doing it via our boat for $115/day.
Didn't you say you have an MBA? Because if you think back to your finance classes, you'll realize that you're mixing present value with future value of money.

I'm also going to suggest that if you maintain the boat properly, it will cost around 10% of the boat value per year. Otherwise, your boat isn't going to be worth half of what you paid in 10 years. At some point you're going to need a major refit, or at least some major maintenance. Stuff happens.

How much RV could you purchase for $115K, including maintenance, and what would that cost to maintain, and what would the residual value be after 10 years? If you really traveled every single day, vs "camping out" in one place for major stretches of that time, how much of the world would you see? With an RV, you'll likely spend more in hookups, but I also know people who camp out on the sly, and pay very little to travel that way.

When you're on a boat, are you traveling to different places every day? Or are you staying in one place, months at a time, mostly dictated by weather patterns and your current location? Be honest. I do believe you'll see different parts of the world, but let's just say that it's more difficult to compare oranges to apples than people let on.
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Old 18-02-2015, 06:57   #90
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Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

really more interested in arguing than in the topic I see
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