Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 16-02-2015, 08:27   #61
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,440
Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboss View Post

When we eventually do go outside the US on our boat, it'll be much cheaper than maintaining a dirt life and associated 2 weeks of vacation travel costs.

Perhaps, but shouldn't you be tracking your current expenses, in order to add those to the ongoing costs when you take those vacations? To get an accurate picture, you have to average it all in, including your purchase price, current slip fees, outfitting, insurance and maintenance over the years you owned the boat before striking out on your adventure.

Sure, the value of your adventure will be priceless, but the costs can be calculated even when you start taking trips to look for a boat.
__________________

__________________
letsgetsailing3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2015, 08:46   #62
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,305
Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

Last year I spent 15% of my gross income to have my house (all payment, maintenance, utilities). At the same time I spent 14% of my gross income to have my boat (payments, all use related items including maintenance and upgrades). The boat was much more expensive per day of use. But so what, if you don't want to sail/boat you shouldn't have one.

But the thread was about whether it is cost effective to use a boat to travel etc, and it definitely is. Even when we go off for a week sailing to somewhere the cost is way less than what it would have cost to get a little hotel room.
__________________

__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2015, 09:01   #63
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,440
Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post

But the thread was about whether it is cost effective to use a boat to travel etc, and it definitely is. Even when we go off for a week sailing to somewhere the cost is way less than what it would have cost to get a little hotel room.

The point is that you have to figure in all boat costs in order to make that assessment.

You can't just compare getting a hotel room to the costs of a week of being on the boat.

It's also probably cheaper to own a home than getting a hotel room, if you leave out the purchase price, taxes, insurance, maintenance and improvement costs, but I think the actual calculation is more nuanced and complicated.

If you want to spend your time and money cruising, then that's what you should do. If you cruise like Fatty Goodlander, I think it may even be cheaper than other forms of travel, but it will take an effort to do it that way, and there are also cheap ways to travel by land, vs staying in hotel rooms in big cities.
__________________
letsgetsailing3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2015, 09:15   #64
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,305
Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

Spin it anyway you want to in order to get the answer you want. But I don't see how traveling is ever going to be less expensive than using your boat to do it unless you are a backpacker type of traveler.

Hell most threads here about the costs of cruising insist it costs less than $3k/mo and that's total living costs.
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2015, 09:21   #65
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,440
Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
Spin it anyway you want to in order to get the answer you want. But I don't see how traveling is ever going to be less expensive than using your boat to do it unless you are a backpacker type of traveler.

Hell most threads here about the costs of cruising insist it costs less than $3k/mo and that's total living costs.

I'm not spinning it. I'm all for cruising being cheaper than other forms of travel. But I will insist that those making the claims include all the costs, not just selected ones.

Like most of the heated and controversial topics on this forum where people are providing opinions, the answer will likely come back "It depends on how you do it."

Owning a boat often isn't cheap.
__________________
letsgetsailing3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2015, 09:25   #66
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,305
Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

Then I don't understand what exception you trying to take on my #62.
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2015, 09:32   #67
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,440
Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
Then I don't understand what exception you trying to take on my #62.

I thought it was a good post, particularly regarding the 15% of your income being devoted to cruising and boat ownership. That's worthy of mention.

I just wasn't sure I agreed with the conclusion that cruising for a week was definitely cheaper than staying in a hotel room, as it seemed to leave out the overall ownership expenses mentioned. Seems to me that those would have to be added to the cost, unless you're just saying "I was going to own the boat anyway, so I'm choosing to ignore those costs." Do you see what I mean?
__________________
letsgetsailing3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2015, 09:54   #68
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,305
Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

Quote:
Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 View Post

I just wasn't sure I agreed with the conclusion that cruising for a week was definitely cheaper than staying in a hotel room, as it seemed to leave out the overall ownership expenses mentioned.
Having my house and having my boat both cost about the same.

I bet most people spend more money to live per month traveling than they do at home. So I believe from my costs it is safe to say it costs less to travel with my boat.

I never said it was cheaper to have a boat to travel only 1 week/year.
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2015, 10:03   #69
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,865
Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

While not explicity stated, I believe there is an assumption in the initial question that you would be buying a boat with the intent of using it to travel (as opposed to having one regardless of cruising plans). In that case there is no way to reasonably leave out the cost of the boat and it's ongoing care and feeding.

In this case, it would be an extremely odd situation for cruising to be cheaper than just taking a 2week vacation each year.

As has been stated multiple times, for cruising to be cost competitive, you have to spend a lot of time cruising on the boat.

There have been a number of examples trying to muddy the water with apples and oranges comparisons. Example: $400/night hotel room vs a $6000 30yr old boat. The guy who expects a $400/night hotel room and the amentities that come with it is unlikely to be happy with the amenities afforded by a $6000 boat anchored out. Likewise, the guy who is happy with a $70/night hotel probably doesn't expect the amenities of a $500k boat.
__________________
valhalla360 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2015, 11:01   #70
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 41
Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

Perhaps we're being bogged down in a dead-end argument.
? was - is it financially efficient to see the world by cruising.
Quite obviously not if you've only got 2 weeks a year, in fact with only 2 weeks a year trying to see the world is a forlorn hope.
Given that you have the time, I'd maintain it's a financially efficient way to see the world - but you need to devote yourself full-time to the task, if you want to make any progress. I've been doing it for 14 years and still haven't got out of Europe.

It is impossible to justify a boat, unless retired and you can sail full-time.
But I note that few of the fair sex are overjoyed at the thought of giving up a house for the cramped, uncomfortable quarters of a boat.
__________________
chasfgr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2015, 11:48   #71
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,188
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

Way I look at it is this.. as the average Joe..
Buy an average 2-3 bed house in the UK for 250K over 25yrs add on the interest and your talking a hefty monthly payment and you REALLY need to keep a job.. on top of that the cost of living, keeping up with the 'Jones's'.. excessive socialising in restaurants/clubs etc.. cars and other related land costs...
2 bedroom steel boat.. cost around 35K.. debt free... choose your mobile work choice and learn it well.. EU-USA.. matters not there's a huge cruising ground that can be harvested and income gleaned if one's needs are simple and skills are sought..
So already your well ahead by nearly a million... and that's before travel costs come into it...
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2015, 13:07   #72
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 10,132
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
Having my house and having my boat both cost about the same.

I bet most people spend more money to live per month traveling than they do at home. So I believe from my costs it is safe to say it costs less to travel with my boat.

I never said it was cheaper to have a boat to travel only 1 week/year.
I sincerely hope your employment does not include finance management.

To own your vessel you have DOUBLED your expenditure per year from 15% of your income to 29% whether you use it or not. This does not include ongoing related costs of refits or indeed of the holiday itself.

If you earn 100k a year, less tax, ... over 10 years 29K a year is deducted immediately for home and boat costs. When you go sailing, and still own a home and the boat, its going to cost you in REAL terms 29K a year PLUS the expenses of the trip and upkeep of the boat.

Leave the boat at the dock and dont use it....... its still 29K a year.

SO when you do go sailing, even if you go 365 days a year, dont forget to add the 29% to the ongoing costs, because that is the REAL cost of owning a home, a boat and the vacation/cruising all at the same time.

Now I just booked 4 trips for business, of which I have to stand the cost of travel. 2 X Spain, 1 X Canada and 1 x times Hong Kong.

Spain #1 (Madrid)
Apartment rental for 28 days:632
Airfare: 182
Food: usually costs me about 450/500
internal travel costs usually about 60-100


Toronto Canada: 2 weeks:
All inclusive (food) hotel and airfare is 1100
internal travel costs: 150

Spain #2 (Mallorca)
Apartment rental for 28 days: 650
Airfare: 156
Food: 450-500
internal travel, usually bus cards only 20.

Hong Kong.
flight: 462
Hotel: 800 two weeks
Food: whatever I choose.
internal Travel...100

So all that is roughly 5352.
Lets add another 1K "just in case".

So I can travel around the world on 4 holidays for roughly 6.5K covering 12 weeks for that price.

I dont have 14% of my salary in boat repayments and then ON TOP OF THAT the cost of the holidays...

So no....... I disagree that staying on a boat is 'cheaper' unless you live on it and dont have a home. You have to live somewhere. Better still, if you dont have a payment to make on the boat.

You can, as has been suggested, ignore all this and think its cheaper...... but just because you ignore it, the costs dont go away.



This doesnt take away the joy of owning a boat or having fun on one. Im happy writing off the cost of my vessel because I have no debt on it, and it gives me a lot of pleasure. It is also an inexpensive one at @8K. Ive spent more than that on a guitar. However at 150K with repayments, depending on your income its a little harder to walk away from.

However, in many threads, you spend a lot of time lamenting the cost of owning your vessel, and I can understand why when the real costs are taken into consideration. You yourself stated that you should not buy a boat until you are ready to sail away on it...... heck you could save 14% of your income a year over 10 years and bought a cheaper boat prior to going sailing..... and paid cash for it with no interest.

Does it stop anyone from cruising? Heck no! But please dont tell me its cheaper on a ball somewhere rather than 5K a night in a hotel....... the reality is that you would not go to that hotel anyway, or else the 'savings' on the hotel would not be an issue.

jes saying.
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2015, 14:01   #73
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,305
Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis View Post
To own your vessel you have DOUBLED your expenditure per year from 15% of your income to 29% whether you use it or not. This does not include ongoing related costs of refits or indeed of the holiday itself.
Maybe you should made an attempt when looking for a post to trash that you look for all of them on the thread about the subject.

I have posted more than once that unless you are cruising and living on the boat that the only reason to own a boat is because you like to sail/boat.

It is people like you that made me wonder why they have a boat!

I have a MBA an bet I understand money a lot better than you.
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2015, 14:01   #74
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cruising Indian Ocean / Red Sea - home is Zimbabwe
Boat: V45
Posts: 1,282
Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

Hello weavis,
Your figures may be applicable for you. However, I have four children as well as myself and my lovely wife. To travel from the Caribbean to Madagascar shall cost us a huge amount in airfares. As I am rather large (6'6" ex-rugby player, 118kg) I need to travel business class. The same applies to my two eldest boys who are similarly sized. Add in the hotel costs (3x double rooms) etc etc and the maths starts running against you. By contrast our chosen slow means of transport has cost around 150 litres of diesel, some visa's, a Suez Canal transit, and cruising permits for three different area's. That does not even equal one airline ticket. I do not count food as that is an expense regardless - despite we eat at 'home' each day rather than a restaurant. The visa's are also the same. You have also omitted the fact that we are live aboards, cruising, rather than just dashing off on holiday. The journey is part of the fun, frustrating as it can sometimes be. Cruising is not just about ticking off the countries and costs, it is a way of life. It is away from the humdrum existance, it is about being self reliant and engaging with others. Additionally, seeing our children interact with others, on a global level, is very satisfying. Seeing how my eldest son conducted himself in the face of severe provocation from an Israeli Marine whilst in international waters in the Med made me very proud. These experiences are priceless. Yes, cruising costs money, we are fortunate to be reasonably independent in that regard - but the previous time we went cruising we were on a strict budget. We went back to land to ensure we could continue cruising (as we now are) without worying too much. If people try and budget that closely, and to deny themselves the realities, perhaps the lifestyle is not for them? It can cost as much as you want or be as cheap as $500 per month.
__________________
Bulawayo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2015, 14:04   #75
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cruising Indian Ocean / Red Sea - home is Zimbabwe
Boat: V45
Posts: 1,282
Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
Maybe you should made an attempt when looking for a post to trash that you look for all of them on the thread about the subject.

I have posted more than once that unless you are cruising and living on the boat that the only reason to own a boat is because you like to sail/boat.

It is people like you that made me wonder why they have a boat!

I have a MBA an bet I understand money a lot better than you.
Well said, Sailorboy.
__________________

__________________
Bulawayo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cruising

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Challenge: Buy Yacht Overseas on House Equity and Come Out Better Off Financially dennisail Challenges 50 19-07-2011 15:00
NW Passage 2011 - To See Our Changing World drpohl Meets & Greets 21 30-01-2011 09:22
Efficient Powerboats vs Efficient Sailboats (Running Cost Comparison) cat man do Powered Boats 142 04-01-2010 15:52
Which certs or classes are the best bet financially? teneicm Training, Licensing & Certification 10 17-04-2008 04:56



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:42.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.