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Old 12-06-2012, 08:42   #46
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Re: Cruisers V General sailors... a world of difference?

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Originally Posted by Tingum View Post
Living in Abaco we see a constant stream of charter cats motoring downwind with the exhaust blowing into the cockpit. They would go faster sailing but are either too lazy to yank out the roller furling jib or simply "afraid". I cannot figure it out!!
the 2 hours motoring to the next anchorage is just enough to charge up the batteries and freeze the eutectic plate on a charter boat,as reccomended by the charter base manager................better than running the engine for 2 hours on anchor once you get there.................and pissing off all those cruisers with solar panals
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:38   #47
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Re: Cruisers V General sailors... a world of difference?

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the 2 hours motoring to the next anchorage is just enough to charge up the batteries and freeze the eutectic plate on a charter boat,as reccomended by the charter base manager................better than running the engine for 2 hours on anchor once you get there.................and pissing off all those cruisers with solar panals
point well taken.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:26   #48
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Re: Cruisers V General sailors... a world of difference?

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Originally Posted by Nostrodamus View Post
Having just done a quick 30m passage along the coast I was just thinking about the difference between cruising sailors and general sailors.

As per usual the wind was on the nose so I had no hesitation in putting the engine on and going the shortest route between A and B. I know before we became full time live a boards and cruisers this would have been sacrilege and I would have spent all day beating into the wind just to sail the same 30 miles.

It would be interesting to hear both sides and are cruisers and general sailors a different breed?

How do you tell the difference between them?

I personally think cruisers are far more chilled and less fussy about the technicalities of sailing. For us what works is right.
For me while doing short coastal hops:
If 3 knots sailing means another night without sleep - and 5 knots( motoring ) means making the anchorage before dark - then its motor time.
However, if A to B is 3000 miles - it doesn't really matter - so relax and sail or just float around and chill.
Similarly - during my last passage I was at the edge of gulf-stream heading North to Montauk - was predicted to be SE in 24 hours (200 miles further north)- and then NE. We were becalmed. So I motored for about 20 hours picked up the SE - (which became gale force) and made it into anchorage before it swung to NE 25 knots - so i had it at anchor sleeping rather than on the nose...and another day or 2 out there...
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:00   #49
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Re: Cruisers V General sailors... a world of difference?

an actual story - sitting in an anchorage in southern bahamas with 3 other boats and looking at next destination and wx - all 3 agreeded on the wx but 2 (both with multiple years out) of us decided to take off the next day, sail 1/2 there anchor then motor the next day for the other 1/2 before a lot of wind and big seas came in - 3rd boat (1st year out- but a really good sailor- oh had wife and new baby on board) said no motoring he would sail - 2 of us had a great uneventful passage and before front came thru - the 3rd boat came in with sea sick baby, really angry wife as they really got beat up on a rough crossing
so who was the cruiser and who was the sailor?
we have no problem running the iron genny but if the sailing is good we can also sail but do so comfortably
let me ask a question - am i a bad sailor if on a long passage we spill wind, sail at 6+k have a heel of 10 deg on our 40' boat and take a bit longer - or should i put more sail out and tighten things up and sail at over 7k on a 20deg heel --
my answer is the former - less stress on me and the boat and the crew

so am i a sailor or cruiser

you decided - we already know

just our opinion
chuck patty and svsoulmates
on the hook rodney bay st lucia
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:21   #50
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Re: Cruisers V General sailors... a world of difference?

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Originally Posted by chuckr View Post
an actual story - sitting in an anchorage in southern bahamas with 3 other boats and looking at next destination and wx - all 3 agreeded on the wx but 2 (both with multiple years out) of us decided to take off the next day, sail 1/2 there anchor then motor the next day for the other 1/2 before a lot of wind and big seas came in - 3rd boat (1st year out- but a really good sailor- oh had wife and new baby on board) said no motoring he would sail - 2 of us had a great uneventful passage and before front came thru - the 3rd boat came in with sea sick baby, really angry wife as they really got beat up on a rough crossing
so who was the cruiser and who was the sailor?
we have no problem running the iron genny but if the sailing is good we can also sail but do so comfortably
let me ask a question - am i a bad sailor if on a long passage we spill wind, sail at 6+k have a heel of 10 deg on our 40' boat and take a bit longer - or should i put more sail out and tighten things up and sail at over 7k on a 20deg heel --
my answer is the former - less stress on me and the boat and the crew

so am i a sailor or cruiser

you decided - we already know

just our opinion
chuck patty and svsoulmates
on the hook rodney bay st lucia
Amen!
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:01   #51
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Re: Cruisers V General sailors... a world of difference?

EVERYONE I've talked to tells me that they ended up motoring or motor sailing more than they ever imaged. Seems there's more dead air than BIG air 'out there'..

And from what I can read between the lines cruising is a very competitive sport...
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Old 12-06-2012, 16:21   #52
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Re: Cruisers V General sailors... a world of difference?

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Originally Posted by rtbates View Post
EVERYONE I've talked to tells me that they ended up motoring or motor sailing more than they ever imaged. Seems there's more dead air than BIG air 'out there'..

And from what I can read between the lines cruising is a very competitive sport...
We have to disagree (respectfully!) with that. Sure, we speak to a lot of people who say they are motor sailing more than they expected, but it's the "EVERYONE" bit that is troublesome, starting with us as we really don't motor sail much, at all.

Our experience was well-expressed by AllezCat...

"...while doing short coastal hops if 3 knots sailing means another night without sleep - and 5 knots (motoring) means making the anchorage before dark - then its motor time. However, if A to B is 3000 miles - it doesn't really matter - so relax and sail or just float around and chill."

We time our coastal passages around the weather with the result that we very often comfortably exceed our (admittedly conservative 5kn) passage planning times and the engines are only troubled at the start and end of the voyage. Our only long passage so far (Feb-June 2011) consumed ~1500 litres of diesel in ~14000nm; simple arithmetic on those numbers confirms the diesels were pretty much used for berthing and the doldrums (plus a fair proportion for the genset as that voyage was before our solar panels were installed)...and not much else.

As for the competitive sport of cruising, we are genuinely unconcerned whether we are passing another vessel or someone is passing us. In either case, we smile and wave!
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Old 12-06-2012, 17:52   #53
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Re: Cruisers V General sailors... a world of difference?

G'Day D&D,

Just curious... how in the world did you do 14000 miles in less than 5 months? What passage was that? Sounds terrible to me... we did 16k miles in our first year of cruising, and that was WAY too many.

IF the weather ever lets up we'll be on the Clarence shortly, and maybe we'l catch up there. Unlikely to be in the marina, but often come over from Iluka by dinghy for the bright lights and tall buildings (ho,ho).

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 12-06-2012, 18:17   #54
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Re: Cruisers V General sailors... a world of difference?

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Originally Posted by rtbates View Post
EVERYONE I've talked to tells me that they ended up motoring or motor sailing more than they ever imaged. Seems there's more dead air than BIG air 'out there'..

And from what I can read between the lines cruising is a very competitive sport...
I would have to disagree with that. I have just finished St Martin-Bermuda-Azores with daily mileage varying from 92 to 175. There are a lot of light days out there, but there are light weight sails for those days. You manage your resources for the conditions and the expected time enroute. Sure we had to motor a couple of days, to get far enough north of Bermuda for some wind, but the alternative would have been sitting in Bermuda ($$) vice getting here to the Azores. Often, I am just as happy to sit around making 4-5Kts headway with a 6-8 Kt wind instead of motoring. (On other days, or I should say nights, we often depower so that we make landfall in the daylight.) Getting there is not competitive for us. Getting there safely and keeping up the post passage maintenance to a reasonable level is important.
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Old 13-06-2012, 01:23   #55
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Re: Cruisers V General sailors... a world of difference?

Cruising isn't just about getting from A to B. It is a way of life.
It is about being resourceful and finding cheap places to go.

We don't have a berth waiting for us with electricity and water in waters we know.

Each day is a new challenge we thrive on. going into unknown waters, anchoring off and still being able to sleep, managing electricity and water.

As any cruiser will tell you managing space aboard is a challenge where as you day sailor worry about where to store your newest winch handle.

Come on, you day sailors who never even put anything in the fridge apart from the odd beer have it easy. You sit at home only going out in good sailing weather, the anchor has never been used, and you go out for a quick sail round and back.

If something breaks well the wages will pay for someone else to fix it.

Where is the challenge?
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Old 13-06-2012, 03:18   #56
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Re: Cruisers V General sailors... a world of difference?

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I would have to disagree with that. I have just finished St Martin-Bermuda-Azores with daily mileage varying from 92 to 175. There are a lot of light days out there, but there are light weight sails for those days. You manage your resources for the conditions and the expected time enroute. Sure we had to motor a couple of days, to get far enough north of Bermuda for some wind, but the alternative would have been sitting in Bermuda ($$) vice getting here to the Azores. Often, I am just as happy to sit around making 4-5Kts headway with a 6-8 Kt wind instead of motoring. (On other days, or I should say nights, we often depower so that we make landfall in the daylight.) Getting there is not competitive for us. Getting there safely and keeping up the post passage maintenance to a reasonable level is important.
Just checked the log for the same trip year before last, no wind to speak of until 38deg N, lowest daily run was 15Nm. Sometimes going backwards I find it easier to not motor offshore, so long as its a day or so, not for 2 weeks
Offshore i think the criteria are more do do with breaking as little as possible and save the diesel cos you might need it later rather than any romantic notion of life under sail alone
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Old 13-06-2012, 10:53   #57
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Re: Cruisers V General sailors... a world of difference?

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Originally Posted by Nostrodamus View Post
Cruising isn't just about getting from A to B. It is a way of life.
It is about being resourceful and finding cheap places to go.

We don't have a berth waiting for us with electricity and water in waters we know.

Each day is a new challenge we thrive on. going into unknown waters, anchoring off and still being able to sleep, managing electricity and water.

As any cruiser will tell you managing space aboard is a challenge where as you day sailor worry about where to store your newest winch handle.

Come on, you day sailors who never even put anything in the fridge apart from the odd beer have it easy. You sit at home only going out in good sailing weather, the anchor has never been used, and you go out for a quick sail round and back.

If something breaks well the wages will pay for someone else to fix it.

Where is the challenge?
Parts I disagree you are talking about the easy stuff, you are talking about freedom. Plus, how many in anchorage right now waiting for so and so to come fix their refrigerator?

Actually when I talk to day sailors about cruising/offshore sailing they lack confidence. This has always irritated me a bit, day sailing is much harder at times than cruising, they are closer to land, closer to other boats, they sail more, tend to push the boat harder, have different people/crew aboard. I'm much more comfortable offshore than I am day sailing on a lee shore, I hate lee shores, even if it's my home port.

Once you clear land and set the sails, if you have a sound boat and good crew( watches) it's really quite easy. Landfall is the challenge, and most get their start, their knowledge, by day sailing.

Just my 2cents

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Old 13-06-2012, 11:48   #58
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Re: Cruisers V General sailors... a world of difference?

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Parts I disagree you are talking about the easy stuff, you are talking about freedom. Plus, how many in anchorage right now waiting for so and so to come fix their refrigerator?

Actually when I talk to day sailors about cruising/offshore sailing they lack confidence. This has always irritated me a bit, day sailing is much harder at times than cruising, they are closer to land, closer to other boats, they sail more, tend to push the boat harder, have different people/crew aboard. I'm much more comfortable offshore than I am day sailing on a lee shore, I hate lee shores, even if it's my home port.

Once you clear land and set the sails, if you have a sound boat and good crew( watches) it's really quite easy. Landfall is the challenge, and most get their start, their knowledge, by day sailing.

Just my 2cents

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But there is so much more to cruising than just the sailing part. I'm an ok sailor, but I'm still working on being an ok cruiser. Anchoring, provisioning, repairs, electrical management, operating in foreign lands, clearing in and out of foreign lands, weather, water management, packing a boat so things stay where they need to be in a storm... The list goes on and on.

I think the skills required for a day sail are about 10% of the overall skills required for long distance cruising. That's what makes this cruising thing so rich!
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Old 13-06-2012, 11:56   #59
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Re: Cruisers V General sailors... a world of difference?

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We have to disagree (respectfully!) with that. Sure, we speak to a lot of people who say they are motor sailing more than they expected, but it's the "EVERYONE" bit that is troublesome, starting with us as we really don't motor sail much, at all.

Our experience was well-expressed by AllezCat...

"...while doing short coastal hops if 3 knots sailing means another night without sleep - and 5 knots (motoring) means making the anchorage before dark - then its motor time. However, if A to B is 3000 miles - it doesn't really matter - so relax and sail or just float around and chill."

We time our coastal passages around the weather with the result that we very often comfortably exceed our (admittedly conservative 5kn) passage planning times and the engines are only troubled at the start and end of the voyage. Our only long passage so far (Feb-June 2011) consumed ~1500 litres of diesel in ~14000nm; simple arithmetic on those numbers confirms the diesels were pretty much used for berthing and the doldrums (plus a fair proportion for the genset as that voyage was before our solar panels were installed)...and not much else.

As for the competitive sport of cruising, we are genuinely unconcerned whether we are passing another vessel or someone is passing us. In either case, we smile and wave!
Your concern is for not using the motor....I understand...Those folks I talk to don't care I guess about the amount of motoring required. They just do it
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Old 13-06-2012, 13:45   #60
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Re: Cruisers V General sailors... a world of difference?

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But there is so much more to cruising than just the sailing part. I'm an ok sailor, but I'm still working on being an ok cruiser. Anchoring, provisioning, repairs, electrical management, operating in foreign lands, clearing in and out of foreign lands, weather, water management, packing a boat so things stay where they need to be in a storm... The list goes on and on.

I think the skills required for a day sail are about 10% of the overall skills required for long distance cruising. That's what makes this cruising thing so rich!
Good points
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