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Old 06-12-2017, 16:43   #46
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Re: Cruiser killed in Grenada

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
ok so a buoy was unlit. when does responsibility f or our own actions become a govt issue?


Come on Zeehag!!! Are you not aware that whatever happens to anybody is somebody else's fault???? And I know for sure this is true because of the number of lawsuits our small company has contended with over the years.
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Old 06-12-2017, 19:21   #47
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Re: Cruiser killed in Grenada

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Come on Zeehag!!! Are you not aware that whatever happens to anybody is somebody else's fault???? And I know for sure this is true because of the number of lawsuits our small company has contended with over the years.
It's the American way my friend, you guys need a bounty on lawyers.
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Old 06-12-2017, 19:58   #48
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Re: Cruiser killed in Grenada

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
The world is full of unpainted, unlit hazards, some artificial, some natural. It is the inescapable responsibility of the operators of boats of all sizes to avoid hitting them. Trying to blame the Granadian coasties for this accident is folly.

Jim
100%, there's all sorts of hazards. We take our first world expectations with us expecting the world to adapt, it's upto us to do the adaption.
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Old 06-12-2017, 21:09   #49
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Re: Cruiser killed in Grenada

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It's the American way my friend, you guys need a bounty on lawyers.
There would not be lawyers if there were not clients
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Old 06-12-2017, 21:19   #50
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Re: Cruiser killed in Grenada

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Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
For what it's worth, when we have to run at night we have regulation running lights on our dinghy but also have whoever is in the bows sweeping ahead of us, side to side, from 45º on either side of the bow with a reasonably powerful hand held spotlight. We also do not run at speed in or near an anchorage, day or night, but particularly not at night. With respect to another dinghy, I want our spotlight to alert him/her that we are "there" but not to blind them which could be no less problem-some. If we do have to pass another yacht close at hand, we always try to do so at little better than idle speed so as not to disturb the occupants and to avoid being a "pop up" target to someone approaching from the opposite side of the yacht. The spotlight has proven its worth more than once over the years both to spot and avoid unlighted objects; and, other dinghies.
Speeding through an anchorage in an unlit dinghy is as we can all attest a recipe for disaster. That having been said, I'm sure many of us have had near misses at night due to any one of a number of factors: fatigue, night blindness, momentary disorientation, distraction, confusing shore lights, etc. Without having been in this man's dinghy under his set of circumstances it is futile to form an opinion or to rant.

I am very interested however in suggestions for properly lighting ones dinghy. In a typical inflatable there is no place to mount one on the boat. I have used suction cup all around lights mounted to the outboard but these don't always stay on plus what do you do with them when you get to shore? Same question for a bright hand held light. I always carry some sort of light, usually a small dive light on a lanyard that hangs from my wrist. Sometimes I will carry a larger light and other items in a small roll up water proof bag. The main problem is what to do with the light and/or bag? Can't leave it in the dinghy in most of the spots I've visited if you want it to be there when you get back. I always wind up carrying it ashore which works but is not always the most elegant look if you're taking the admiral to a nice dinner and dancing. I recently bought a small hand held laser which will light up a reflexive surface amazingly well. Next time we're out on charter I plan to use it in the dinghy both to search for obstacles and to bounce off a reflexive surface of the dinghy. Other suggestions from CF'ers would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 06-12-2017, 21:37   #51
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Re: Cruiser killed in Grenada

Any dinghy with a hard transom can be used for mounting an all-round white light on a pole (the kind that plugs in). I used a block of teak on the front of the transom with the through-deck socket mounted on the top. Get as tall a pole as possible, usually around 4ft, so that the light is above you (and your eyes).

For the bow bi-color I used snaps to attach a small teak block to the Sunbrella "chaps" (tube covers), then screwed down a deck-mount bow light onto the teak block.

Of course if you want to attach directly to the tube you could adapt a rubber block with some good glue.

Greg
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Old 06-12-2017, 22:44   #52
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Re: Cruiser killed in Grenada

While we can all agree that any loss of life is a tragedy, I don't think we can judge this incident without more complete information concerning the actions of the cruiser. I am currently in the anchorage where the incident occurred and regularly dinghy past the unmarked channel marker. I would allow that adequate care was obviously not taken, but remind you that a collision with a fixed object even at low speeds can cause injury or death. I have no idea what the rate of speed, lighting, or sobriety of the driver was but I do know that the obstacle is well known and that prudence would require slow speeds in reduced visibility and that lights, used both for making yourself visible and to look for obstacles are required and/or common sense. The comment about an all round white lite mounted high is right on target and easily affordable to any cruiser I have a 'Lucy' light mounted on a salvaged oar handle about 4 feet high, even here in Grenada the cost is less than US$20 and installed in 10 minutes. This not only makes me the 'most visible dinghy in the bay' but it also illuminates the water around me adequately for safe motoring at reasonable speeds.

We are all responsible for our own safety as well as not putting others at risk by our actions. Slow down when visibility is limited and in crowded anchorages, use proper lights, pay attention, be courteous to other cruisers, and follow the rules of the road. Cruising has enough difficulties without cruisers adding unnecessary risks to themselves and others.
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Old 06-12-2017, 23:45   #53
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Re: Cruiser killed in Grenada

I use one of these. It clamps to the outboard cover via a magnetic clamp. Not perfect, but pretty good. It is simple enough that I actually use it at night and remove it in the day time.
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Old 07-12-2017, 02:54   #54
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Re: Cruiser killed in Grenada

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, NikiFoxE.
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Old 07-12-2017, 03:08   #55
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Re: Cruiser killed in Grenada

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Most of the responses including the original post, just sound like a bunch of Americans trying to apply their nanny state liability laws onto the rest of the world countries. If the same Americans were to ever venture out to other countries, they'd quickly find many more issues to complain about like missing guard rails almost everywhere, or ancient walkways without wheelchair cutaways. Hey... we come across unmarked junk and large boulders in the water all the time while out cruising, what do you expect? It's not the local government's fault if we crash into it if we decide to dinghy across at 20mph in the dark and hit it. Many times we've almost hit markers at night, but it wasn't an issue because we were only going about 5mph at the time, and saw the object in time to steer around it. We also use a high power flashlight.

People have forgotten how to watch where they're going.... It's not some foreign government's fault when someone plows into something at night, everyone needs to watch out and basically drive safely within the conditions.
Your argument loses some of its validity since the original poster, me, is not American. Also I have considerable experience outside the first world including 40K nm of cruising all over the world and volunteering for a time in remote parts of a very poor country in Africa. I think this gives me, or anyone, the right to comment on an unnecessary, unsafe condition in a country that is not all that poor. Grenada's Human Development Index value (from the UN) is 0.754 which puts it into the 'high' category (there is a very high category as well). It ranks 79th in the world out of 188.

There are actually three of these markers in close proximity. They are intended as aids to navigation although they quite clearly are hazards with two deaths and at least two other collisions I am aware of. Seems to me that there are two possibilities here for the government - either remove them, which makes most sense to me or bring them to a proper functional state with appropriate paint and lighting - i.e make them aids rather than hazards. Note that by saying this I am not suggesting that those who hit them are without fault, just that the government does have responsibilities in this matter - they did put the damn things out there in the first place.
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Old 07-12-2017, 03:40   #56
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Re: Cruiser killed in Grenada

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Originally Posted by Paul L View Post
I use one of these. It clamps to the outboard cover via a magnetic clamp. Not perfect, but pretty good. It is simple enough that I actually use it at night and remove it in the day time.
Paul,

Where did you buy this and who makes it?

Thanks

Ken
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Old 07-12-2017, 03:42   #57
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Re: Cruiser killed in Grenada

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Your argument loses some of its validity since the original poster, me, is not American. Also I have considerable experience outside the first world including 40K nm of cruising all over the world and volunteering for a time in remote parts of a very poor country in Africa. I think this gives me, or anyone, the right to comment on an unnecessary, unsafe condition in a country that is not all that poor. Grenada's Human Development Index value (from the UN) is 0.754 which puts it into the 'high' category (there is a very high category as well). It ranks 79th in the world out of 188.

There are actually three of these markers in close proximity. They are intended as aids to navigation although they quite clearly are hazards with two deaths and at least two other collisions I am aware of. Seems to me that there are two possibilities here for the government - either remove them, which makes most sense to me or bring them to a proper functional state with appropriate paint and lighting - i.e make them aids rather than hazards. Note that by saying this I am not suggesting that those who hit them are without fault, just that the government does have responsibilities in this matter - they did put the damn things out there in the first place.
The last time I checked my globe, Canada was part of North America.... unless plate tectonics has moved Canada from where it was yesterday.
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Old 07-12-2017, 04:32   #58
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The simplest solution is a headlamp that places the light on your forehead.. shines where you look.. and that looking should cover 360 degrees if your doing it right..
Good range and easy to stow.. most sensible cruiser have at least 1 for deck work on dark nights..
Two would give you a white light fore and aft..
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Old 07-12-2017, 04:32   #59
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Re: Cruiser killed in Grenada

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Paul,



Where did you buy this and who makes it?



Thanks



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Old 07-12-2017, 04:34   #60
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Re: Cruiser killed in Grenada

Anyone that travels 3rd world countries will find obstacles almost everywhere. Rebar sticking outside of buildings at eye height, holes in sidewalks,steps with unequal risers, no handrails on stairs or even beside cliffs and open water. I could keep going but I think it's clear that we live in a sanitized world with safely standards set for the dumbest people. You never hear about locals getting hurt or falling off cliffs because there are no guard rails because these people pay attention to what they are doing. Every year in Vancouver we kill a bunch of pedestrians who like to cross streets without looking but totally eye locked on their smart phones. The same bunch of idiots are causing major accidents because they like to text while driving. We live in a society that just doesn't want to take responsibility for their own actions. When we do screw up we like to sue someone for our own incompetence. Someone slips on ice in front of a store and sues the store owner..the fact that they were wearing foot wear that had little to no grip and they were not paying attention doesn't seem to matter. Years ago it was unheard of for something like this to happen but guess what...this is what it's like in the 3rd world. You won't be suing anybody because their laws don't allow it. It doesn't take too long for someone with average common sense to operate safely in 3rd world countries but Darwin certainly doesn't let down the ones that don't. My advice is...your not going to change things in these countries, your going to have to change yourself. Frankly my wife and I love 3rd world countries, it's a bit of fresh air in many ways although if either of us get real sick we go scooting back home pretty quick.
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