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K0185 · 08-08-2014, 23:12

What is the comparison on this 3 33+ footer boats:
1. Bavaria cruiser 33
2. Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 33i
3. Beneteau Oceanis 34

I am so confuse on this now. Coz people keep telling me different story. So told me the reputation on SunOdyssey 33i is better than Bavaria Cruiser (in terms of quality, performance and stuff) but some told me they are pretty much the same quality. and there is not much performance difference, it depend on the sailor skill set and nth should blame on the quality. As those 2 boats are pretty muh the same. Hoever, some told me Somehow. Sun Odyssey is like a Mercedes Benz and Bavaria cruiser is like BMW, the class is different.

I also heard some people said they would rather to take a 2nd handed Beneteau Oceanis 34 than Bavaria/Jeanneau....
Super confusing, anyone help???

**carstenb** · 09-08-2014, 02:38

I've had a Bavaria 33 and now I have a Jeanneau 40 footer. The bavaria was a good boat, I never had any issues with it.

My Jeanneau is a different animal because it is a performance cruiser so tough to make a comparison.

Generally I find Jeanneau's have heavier duty hardware than the bavarias (winches etc) The bavarias have been cost-reduced to the point that I feel the equipment is a bit dodgy.

But they are good boats for their target market, which is families that use them as floating holiday cottages.

I can't comment on Beneteaus as I never owned one.

Tim Godber · 09-08-2014, 02:45

"Sun Odyssey is like a Mercedes Benz and Bavaria cruiser is like BMW, the class is different. "

Not sure the right car analogy in use here, maybe Ford and Toyota, both excellent well made products for their particular market, but both production vehicles?

DoubleWhisky · 09-08-2014, 03:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by K0185

What is the comparison on this 3 33+ footer boats:
1. Bavaria cruiser 33
2. Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 33i
3. Beneteau Oceanis 34

I am so confuse on this now. Coz people keep telling me different story. So told me the reputation on SunOdyssey 33i is better than Bavaria Cruiser (in terms of quality, performance and stuff) but some told me they are pretty much the same quality. and there is not much performance difference, it depend on the sailor skill set and nth should blame on the quality. As those 2 boats are pretty muh the same. Hoever, some told me Somehow. Sun Odyssey is like a Mercedes Benz and Bavaria cruiser is like BMW, the class is different.

I also heard some people said they would rather to take a 2nd handed Beneteau Oceanis 34 than Bavaria/Jeanneau....
Super confusing, anyone help???

Several years ago Sun Odyssey's were surely better built boats than Bavarias of the time. Now it is not so simple answer.
Bavaria went too far with its cost cutting policy, and their boats got some well deserved bad reputation. They kept prices too low in the attempt to take a place of Beneteau Group, and they went effectively bankrupt.
After reconstruction and under new management they went to Farr for new designs, improved engineering and so on...
In effect they contemporary boats are much more robust and there is not so much of cost cutting on construction and engineering. Enough to say that present Bavarias are 20 - 30 % heavier than ones of previous generation, and it is not the weight of the furniture involved (at least not only). Of course it does not mean that "cost effectiveness factor" was excluded from their builts, but it is not so overwhelming as some time ago.
On the other hand Beneteau Group was slower in cost cutting (may be except discontinued Cyclades line), but never turned back and it is a possibility they are the cost cutting leader now

One thing I'm not sure about - I do not know (it was of no interest to me personally) if Bavaria use the structural, carrying main loads, internal liners now.
My feeling is this method of construction is inherently risky. Of course the issues are statistically rare, but still it is a unpleasant possibility of being in a wrong part of statistics

I think it is quite possible that partial liners on Bavarias are still not carrying main loads from rigging and keel attachements, as such a change in technology would be too costly for them in a moment, even taking into account possible future savings. The built technology matter is well worth to investigate. On the other hand Jeanneau adopted this technology, however later than Beneteau.

Let's put it this way - seven years ago, given the choice between similar models built by Jeanneau and Bavaria, without the possibility of thorough investigation, I would go for Jeanneau in a blink.
Today, given the same choice, I would go for Bavaria, but with much more doubts.

The price war between builders is not to benefit of cruisers, I dare say - at least to some extent. Both Beneteau Group and Bavaria are still not earning money on boatbuilding business, fighting for a market share and hoping for general improvement of the market. It is still crisis situation in the boat mass building industry and builders are still forced to cut the costs every possible way. So - if You want to make comparisons to the car industry it is FIAT against Renault rather, than BMW versus Mercedes. For the latter You should compare Oysters against Contests probably

Cheers

Tomasz

barnakiel · 09-08-2014, 04:31

Quote:

(...)

Sun Odyssey is like a Mercedes Benz and Bavaria cruiser is like BMW,

(...)

Quote of the year.

ROFL
b.

**carstenb** · 09-08-2014, 04:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Quote of the year.

ROFL
b.

amost brings a tear to your eye - doesn't it?

DoubleWhisky · 09-08-2014, 04:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by carstenb

amost brings a tear to your eye - doesn't it?

May we discuss the number of Michelin stars for attribution to McDonald and KFC ?

**carstenb** · 09-08-2014, 04:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky

May we discuss the number of Michelin stars for attribution to McDonald and KFC ?

Well a few years ago there was a guy in New York, I believe, who sued MacDonalds because he was fat. He claimed he was fat because he ate every meal at MacDonalds. And why did he eat every meal there?

Because it just tasted so good and that's why he ended up fat-.

Reality is stranger than fiction

DoubleWhisky · 09-08-2014, 07:25

After some browsing I'm now quite convinced that Bavaria still does not use the internal liners as a load carrying structure.
Still it can be some problem with underspecification of deck hardware (winches, blocks, may be furling gear), but it probably can be remedied by proper specification agreed upon with a dealer.
I believe that underspecification of spars (it was an issue for a time) is gone by now, but it may be better to consult Selden in this regard.
Thorough use of washers instead of proper backing plates is - unhappily - common practice of all mass production builders now.
For me personally the problem is the use of Volvo engines by the Bavaria - You can expect worst support for extraorbiting prices...
On the other hand VW engines used by Group Beneteau are not on my wishlist also...

Cheers

Tomasz

K0185 · 09-08-2014, 21:01

So pretty much Bavaria and Jeanneau have not big difference Nowaday. is it?

But I am still trying to figure out why is the difference regarding the performance between Bavaria and Jeanneau. Is it the speed? the duration of the equipments? or something else?

I know even there is a price difference between Bavaria and Jeanneau. may be a couple ten thousand price difference) But compare to the price of the sailing boat it is not that significant. so how come there is still people out there choose Bavaria over Jeanneau.

Sound like we can vote the best analogy on this comparison! It should be fun ! any suggestion?

Bavaria vs Jeanneau => XXX vs XXX

**Adelie** · 09-08-2014, 22:14

Depends on what you want to do with it.

As somebody that wants to go offshore, I look at interior layout, build weight and deck layout.

Inside I want one good seaberth per offwatch crew and somewhere to sit for the on-watch. Good or better berths are: pilot berths, quarter berths and settees in that order. A dinette berth (transverse bench or u-shaped) would not qualify.

On-deck I want to see double lowers for a masthead rig and wide side decks.

For build weight I look non-ballast weight and adjust for length and beam.

For these 3 boats the Sun Odyssey looks pretty light compared to the other 2.
Adjusting for length and beam the other two look pretty comparable for non-ballast weight.

Inside the 2 cabin model of the Oceanis is a non-starter, transverse bunks don't work except in a marina or relatively calm anchorage.

The Bavaria has a bit less sail area for its length than the Oceanis.

I'd say these 2 are a wash and go look at both the see which I liked better in person.

SUN ODYSSEY 33I (JEANNEAU)
BAVARIA CRUISER 33
OCEANIS 34 (BENETEAU)

Basic questions to help guide a better answer:
How many people as regular crew? Any kids?
Sailing experience?
How handy are you?
What's your budget to buy and outfit the boat? (living and cruising costs extra.)
Where are you? Where do you want to sail out of? Which coast do you want to set off from and more specifically where on that coast?
Where to you want to go?
Are you looking to cruise extensively or liveaboard and occasionally take several weeks or months off to nip around the Caribbean or Baja?
You don't seem to have any really strong preferences to start with: (full/fin keel, mono/multi, spade/skeg/attached rudder, sloop/cutter/mizzen rigged)