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Old 25-04-2007, 21:41   #61
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The Santana

The santana is the boat I already have, and I have seen the video of the fellow who came in through the side and rolled his boat. I'll keep you all posted as to the final outcome of the purchase.
Again, thank you for all your words... All of you.

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Old 23-05-2007, 00:26   #62
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***Just an update***
Our interests have been compromised and certainaly conflicted. The broker swooped in with a counter offer to our offer with another buyer. We are now kicking ourselves over this. We are so close the boat we have searched all over for and now... Argh! If all of you out there would send your mojo this way to block the other buyer's financing or something benign like that, we would appreciate it. And maybe throw in a case of chicken pox or hives on behalf of the broker that would be sweet too.
-A disgruntled Maximus

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Old 23-05-2007, 01:55   #63
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Plenty of fish...

There are plenty of boats for sale.

Most have owners who will sell to you and good brokers.

Relax, take a holiday if you can and keep on looking.

Your boat will come in.
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Old 23-05-2007, 06:49   #64
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Well, Swami, I am confused. Your last post said you were dealing direct - no broker. Both you and seller could, IMO, tell the broker to piss off and leave him high and dry. That means no commission. If the broker brings another offer, it would have to be 10% higher than your offer to be of equal value to the seller since a commission would be paid.
I can only go so far and's war. This broker needs a whippin' big time. For me, it would add to my enjoyment of the purchase, but I can be that way sometimes I suggest you talk to an attorney.

We have met the enemy and he is us. - Walt Kelly
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Old 23-05-2007, 08:17   #65
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From a legal, not an ethical, standpoint. Once you have a signed offer to buy (or sell) with conditions of sale (financing, survey, etc.) do you have a legal binding document? Can the seller pull it out from underneath you? Can you not buy because you suddenly dislike the teardrop nav lights (and that was not listed as a condition of sale)?

I realize this would vary state to state and country to country (and all jurisdictions inbetween) but I am curious about it.
Sing to a sailor's courage, Sing while the elbows bend,
A ruby port your harbor, Raise three sheets to the wind.
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Old 23-05-2007, 08:31   #66

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FrankZ, everything will depend on local laws and the actual papers/promises. In some places the seller is making an offer--and once it is accepted, it binds. In others, the BUYER is making the "offer", and the seller has the option of accepting or rejecting it. Without knowing local laws, and who said/wrote what...and who is willing to pay court and attorney fees...
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Old 23-05-2007, 08:45   #67
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Here's the skinny

When we approached the seller, we stated that we were wroking with a buyers broker. That is when, after he viewed the boat with us, he lingered back to "speak with [the owner]." The next day we saw the boat listed on Yachtworld. We asked him about this "conflict of interest" as he now represented the buyer. He said there was no conflict of interest. When we made our offer of "X" he said that the seller could not take any less than "X+10%" or in other word what we wanted to pay, but to cover his comission on the sale there needed to be 10% more. As we were the ones who found the boat, contacted the seller after our broker "tried various times," we set up the viewing, and basically did the whole thing, we decided to wait it out till the seller was finished doing business with the broker, then re-approach the seller. We saw the seller at a boat show recently, and he asked if we were still interested in the boat and if we were still working with [the broker]. We said yes we are still interested, and no we are not working with him anymore (our expierence suggested to us that he might not be serving our best interests). He said he is not impressed with the broker himself. That "he promises a lot of buyers but fails to produce anyone." The seller and I have been communicating for the past couple of weeks while the broker finishes up his "business." I contacted the seller and asked where to fax the offer to him at. Faxed it, and waited to hear from him. Which was Monday- ironically when the broker finally produced a buyer with an offer (this is not just the seller being smooth, the Yachtworld listing confirms it). The seller told us that last night and that if it does not go through he is dropping [the broker] and going to sell to us.
We are leaving the country for a few months here in the next couple of weeks, and were planning on that being our home when we return. Grrr. We'll just have to wait and see if it all pans out or not in time for us to buy.
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Old 23-05-2007, 09:44   #68
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Sounds like too much discussion and not enough written offers coupled with earnest money.

Talk is cheap. Written offers and money on the table usually focus the mind much better.

Having played this game a lot in business and real estate, I always advise that buyers skip the discussion part until after they get to the seller a written offer and earnest money. Have the earnest money held by the closing agent, not your broker or seller's broker. Then you have something to "discuss."

After submitting the written offer directly to the seller, you might want to hint that the seller is may not be obligated to pay a commission to the broker on account of the broker's conflict of interest. It is highly unlikely the broker will sue the seller for a commission in this situation. The broker will talk a good story about a lawsuit, but 99.99% of the time it's just anger and hot air. After all, you found the boat without the broker's assistance so the broker can't claim he provided brokerage services.
John, sailing a custom 36' double-headed steel sloop--a 2001 derivation of a 1976 Ted Brewer design.
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Old 23-05-2007, 16:51   #69
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I've read this thread with interest but I am still confused. The obligations of an agency (broker) seem pretty clear. What is not clear is when you say, "We were working with a broker."

Buyer - Did you have an agency agreement with the broker? If so what did it say about how he got paid? Maybe when you look at a boats you should carry around a blank purchase agreement and be prepared to get signatures. You could write in something like, "Parties agree the purchase price is X. Downpaymet of Y% in 36 hours. Caveats on inspections. etc."

Seller - Did you ever reach a verbal agreement. Almost impossible to hold up in court but before the broker wooed him did he say anything like, "OK I'll sell you the boat for X." The 10% broker fee now becomes the sellers problem. If he wants to ask 10% higher in the hopes he can get greater than 10% more by using a broker, that's his option but to be so blatant as, "The buyer needs 10% so you (buyer) have to cough up." is wrong. Especially if he made a verbal contract with you.

You need to decide if you had a verbal agreement with the seller and whether you are willing to pursue in court.

Broker - This one gives brokers a bad name. I would never use a broker representing both sides. Impossible situation. If you did not have a written agreeement with the broker, why did you take him to the first viewing of the boat? Maybe you had a written agreement and it was just bad luck to have this broker.

One thing I am learning fast is that boats are a learning experience. Even the buying of a boat is a learning experience. Maybe you chalk this one up to "I learned a lot about buying a boat from my "first" boat"" and move on.

It is interesting that the seller has come back to you. Maybe the next buyer isn't working out?

Anyway, You could send him a sales agreement, valid for 30 days with your price, and see what happens.

Me - I'd move on. I don't think the seller has much integrity either and that makes only one decent party to the transaction...

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