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Old 20-04-2012, 16:37   #31
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Re: Comfort Levels on the Water

The main channel is on the south side of Suisun Bay. The north channel isn't marked east of midway. Central Suisun Bay is clogged with shallows.

Looking south from the north channel, adjacent to the reserve fleet.

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Old 20-04-2012, 16:46   #32
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Re: Comfort Levels on the Water

Right!. At low Tide the bar in the middle is exposed by about a foot. I just like cutting the corner south of the main channel as its easier then the longish curve of the main (south) channel as it curves toward Port Chicago. Plus it gives way to the ships that might be in the channel too... Surprising amount of ship traffic heading to Stockton and Sacramento..
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Old 20-04-2012, 16:54   #33
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Re: Comfort Levels on the Water

Ships don't go to Sacramento any longer. They still go to Pittsburg, the weapons station and Stockton. There might be typically 2 ships per day upriver of the Benicia Bridge.

Bring an electronic chart. It is really easy to run aground up there if you are not familiar with the area. Moving with the currents when you can will save you a lot of time. If you need a stopover, Pittsburg has a really nice and secure marina with showers. I do a lot of research up there.
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Old 20-04-2012, 17:11   #34
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Re: Comfort Levels on the Water

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Originally Posted by David M View Post
Ships don't go to Sacramento any longer. ...
Per the Port of West Sacramento: "The Port currently handles a variety of bulk, break-bulk and project cargos, including agricultural products (rice, wheat, corn, fertilizer, seed pellets, oats, barley, safflower, almonds and fish meal), industrial products (lumber, wood chips, cement, sand/aggregate, minerals/ore, metals, newsprint, clay, wood pellets and bio-fuels) and project cargos (wind turbines, mining equipment, transformers, machinery, generators, heavy lifts and steel)."

If so, how does all that stuff leave/arrive over water?


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Old 20-04-2012, 17:12   #35
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Re: Comfort Levels on the Water

Sarafina, you are a great storyteller and I appreciate you posting this here. Our situation is similar. Tamiko was in the Coast Guard for 4 years at small boat stations and did a LOT of search and rescue and almost no law enforcement. One day, in 35' waves, she rescued Navy Seals when they flipped their boat in the Morro Bay harbor entrance. She thinks that 20' swells and 40 knot winds looks like fun, but she didn't know how to sail. I, like Himself, your SO, have raced cars and jumped off of a lot of things and climbed up others, scary stuff, I even took off on some 20-25' waves and I won a lot of races in small boats inside the harbor but I have almost no ocean experience.

We bought our boat in Alameda and sailed it once inside the bay before we headed south in November. Bad idea. The Ca coast is rough in the winter, as you know, and it didn't play out too well. The boat was fine, Tamiko has learned to sail quickly, but it was really rough. Alameda to Half Moon Bay, really rough and way bigger than we should have been out in. Our son flipped out, our dog flipped out, and then I started freaking out as well. We had bet everything on this and the kid & dog couldn't handle it. We sold everything, told everyone that we were leaving, and left and it was all falling spart on the first leg of the journey.
Half Moon Bay to Santa Cruz was bad too. Our website details it but I'll just say no radar, dead GPS, dead engine, fog, and a dead lighthouse in Santa Cruz at night, that all sucked. Bad.
After that anxiety ruled my life for awhile. I thought I was brave. After all we had been through together especially 2 1/2 years of caring for our son with a tracheostomy, we barely msde it through that and the doctors at Cedars-Sinai didn't ever think that Eli would live, well, I thought I was tough after that. I thought I was even tougher after having helped my wife through a couple of years in a wheelchair. I learned that I'm not so tough after all when I had to ask my wife to drive the boat for 30 hours straight from Monterey to Morro Bay. I took a bunch of valium and stayed down below with the freaking dog and the freaking boy and freaking me while she drove at 4 knots with a bent prop shaft rattling the boat apart, yeah, I feel like **** about that one. I probably always will.
Things are better now, we paid somebody to help her get the boat down below Point Conception while the boy, the dog, and I waited in Santa Barbara. Since then the sailing has been good, really good and nothing scary has happened which is good because I now realize what a pussy I am. That's getting better too, we're taking baby steps now. Short easy sails from port to port in great conditions and I'm loosing most of my anxiety as are the boy and dog. Yesterday we sailed from Dana Point to Oceanside and it was beautiful and we all had fun and nobody needed any valium and we're all stoked.
Baby steps.
Baby steps.
Baby steps.
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Old 20-04-2012, 17:18   #36
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Re: Comfort Levels on the Water

Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Per the Port of West Sacramento: "The Port currently handles a variety of bulk, break-bulk and project cargos, including agricultural products (rice, wheat, corn, fertilizer, seed pellets, oats, barley, safflower, almonds and fish meal), industrial products (lumber, wood chips, cement, sand/aggregate, minerals/ore, metals, newsprint, clay, wood pellets and bio-fuels) and project cargos (wind turbines, mining equipment, transformers, machinery, generators, heavy lifts and steel)."

If so, how does all that stuff leave/arrive over water?


Hey you're right. I thought when the locks closed permanently that the port had pretty much gone away.
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Old 21-04-2012, 03:10   #37
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Re: Comfort Levels on the Water

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Originally Posted by sww914 View Post
Since then the sailing has been good, really good and nothing scary has happened which is good because I now realize what a pussy I am. That's getting better too, we're taking baby steps now. Short easy sails from port to port in great conditions and I'm loosing most of my anxiety as are the boy and dog.
Starting off with a bad experiance is an easy way to lose confidence in self / boat (Skipper?!) - which can easily change "the dream" into looking for a Plan B (sans Boat).

FWIW, although been messing around with boats since a kid (albeit not nearly as experianced as many others here - especially on the long distance / ocean sailing stuff).....nonetheless have been the odd occassion where confidence has taken a knock (plus plenty of times when I have sworn "never again" or simply wondered WTF I am doing out here ....both usually involving being cold, wet and tired ) - but (IMO) that is just normal / how it is.

Anyway, getting back to Sarafina's situation........

....whilst surfing the 'net last night I think I may have come up with another solution to at least try:-

1) Practice some dancing.
2) put some music on.
3) Wear a Bikini (or at least start off with one ).
4) get some cold Beer in.
5) Buy a boat with an open plan layout (see below)



Except with a stainless steel mast post in the middle .


The idea is to get hubby to associate the boat with nice stuff .

I'll let you into a secret , most blokes are not that complicated - in many respects kinda like training a dog, simply reward appropriate behaviour and things will soon become second nature. Dogs and Fellas .

Could even start off the "Training" whilst tied to the dock. or even shorebased .

Hubby can thank me later .
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Old 21-04-2012, 16:25   #38
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Re: Comfort Levels on the Water

Yesterday we were chilling in the cockpit after working up a sweat below. Re-hydrating with icy cold mango juice. And no, D, it wasn't that kinda sweat. This time.... ; -)

Beautiful afternoon. 78 out. Himself is sprawled in the sun and I am tucked under the awning. Cara the wonder dog is dozing on the quarter berth cushion we had wrangled out of the cabin and onto the deck. Pretty much perfect, except for the dock wrapped around us. Himself opens one eye and squints "we should be out on the bay" and takes another swig of juice and passes the carton to me.

I nod "yep, we should" and sip at the cool juice. "Do you even have a handle on why you are so apprehensive?"

I pass the juice back and wait while he chugs some more.

"I've been thinking on it. Really, I think that what has made it so hard is that time we went out for the lesson in the lazer."

Ahhh.

When we had first acquired the Cal we had brought her up from Half Moon to around by SFO. That was a long day. He was at the tiller much of it and had a grand time even heading into 12 foot swells about a nano second apart. But that day we had had no wind that would have helped us so we motored the whole way. Lots of up and down, but no heeling. Frankly I chummed the whole way to the Gate, but he was happy as a clam.

In the following months we worked on the boat getting her in shape for easy sails, but when we started taking her out it quickly became apparent that Himself was a little anxious. So he looked around and found the Cal Sailing Club, a great organization that among other things has a small boat sailing program. We went, joined and started the classes they offered on little lazers. We went out three times. The last sail we were practicing tiller and sheet management. Himself had the helm and we had winds that were picking up a bit. At some point he got a bit over powered and in the moment forgot what to do. We went over and all got a dunking. Of course we also righted her, climbed back in and went on sailing. The instructor assured him that little boats tip all the time. I told him how I used flip the sunfish I learned on constantly. He was embarrassed but seemed ok. Only somehow we never made it back over to Berkeley for any more of the lessons. And after that every time we went out he was more and more reluctant to go.

He went on "That day I just felt so out of control. I remember the boat going up and how far down the water looked. You were saying 'let go of the sheet' over and over and I couldn't think what a sheet was. I remembered as a kid falling out of a window from what seemed like the same height, and then I was just launched out into the water."

He paused and took another long swig. "And then I was always waiting for every boat to flip. Even though in my mind I knew that wasn't going to happen, I was always worried."

I had been aware that that day had not been a good one for him, but yesterday was the first time that I got how REALLY bad it had been for him.

He went on "I really think that the classes with Mary are going to help. I will have had 30+ hours out sailing by the time the Doo Dah comes around. And then a week in the delta in July. I am going to get on top of this thing."

He sounded confident and relaxed. And convincing. After all this time I think we are going to figure it out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by deckofficer View Post
Carving the apex of a corner just right, rolling on throttle through the exit to keep things pointed the way you wanted, is a feeling that you as a passenger in his race car on the track may not feel too comfortable with.
Hadn't thought about the banking/heeling thing being such opposites in terms of the laws of physics. My dad raced go carts and I was riding in them from about 4 years of age when he took victory laps and for practice, and later on on his motorcycle. I learned to drive in his fiat and the later in his porsche. But at the same time I was on the water with my grandfather much of the summers so the water and the road were comfortable environments for me.

The idea that there were such differences never occurred to me, but you are right Bob, They are like two sides of a coin and to someone unfamiliar, very counter intuitive. That will give him something to think about!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayCall View Post
Once she realized that that worst that could happen is that the boat sink, and then realized that (1) boats are not very good at sinking, and (2) everything we do has the ultimate goal of keeping us from sinking, she has turned out fine.

Tell Himself that once he sees you on a perfectly still night, in the moonlight, 100 miles offshore, he may never want to see land again!
We keep concentrating on the fact that our old plastic classic tub is pretty much bomb proof ; -)

And You are right he will love it out there. ; -)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
So we just stick to a rule of when one of us gets there, we reef! Maybe Himself just needs some cruiser time!
I had to giggle... Himself has to let me put UP a sail so we can reef it. But your point is an excellent one. When I have taken him out it has been in very mild conditions and we have been very conservative, just doodling along. We have spent afternoons just drifting with no wind. He has loved that. Being out on the water thrills him. Just not that heeling thing. Makes me wish we could take Bob's advice and get a cat, but that's not in the cards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jm21 View Post
my wife was laughing a bit and commented that it was just like in the sailboat magazines. Seemed very comfortable.

the guy had a reef in the main on the sea trial with about 5 knots of wind....
We are definitely aiming for your wife's attitude, and working away from the guy's!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJBrookster View Post
Let him find the comfort without pressure. If he reads your posts he may feel demoralised. Wish you both all the best.
I promise, I am NOT pushing him. I know that will only make it worse. And while he is puzzled and a bit embarrassed by his struggle, He is a pretty upbeat kinda guy and just looking for a *fix*. It would take ALOT more than me discussing frankly the challenges we are dealing with to demoralize him ; -) As I mentioned earlier, the kind words and encouragement here has been a boost for him. Good wishes like yours matter!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
Your going to love the delta trip, easy downwind run pretty much all the way.

Of course its more then a bit bashy going back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
The main channel is on the south side of Suisun Bay. The north channel isn't marked east of midway. Central Suisun Bay is clogged with shallows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by David M View Post
Bring an electronic chart. It is really easy to run aground up there if you are not familiar with the area.
All the tips are appreciated. It's been a good twenty years since I was last in the delta. I understand the lotus has become pretty invasive as well. The good news with the Delta Doo Dah is they figure out the way points and nightly stops. We get to just "follow the fleet!" up the river. I am really looking forward to sharing my childhood haunts with Himself. My folks are even going to come down from Sacramento for a few nights!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sww914 View Post
Sarafina, you are a great storyteller and I appreciate you posting this here. Our situation is similar. I learned that I'm not so tough after all when I had to ask my wife to drive the boat for 30 hours straight from Monterey to Morro Bay. I took a bunch of valium and stayed down below with the freaking dog and the freaking boy and freaking me.

Short easy sails from port to port in great conditions and I'm loosing most of my anxiety as are the boy and dog. Yesterday we sailed from Dana Point to Oceanside and it was beautiful and we all had fun and nobody needed any valium and we're all stoked.
Baby steps.
Baby steps.
Baby steps.
That does sound similar. But I bet your wife doesn't hold it against you, and you, in different circumstances would pick up the slack for her. That's what makes it a partnership, huh? But yeah, Baby Steps. So glad it is a story with a happy ending ; -) And about the Valium? No lie; Last night I suggested that we take some with us in July and maybe a 1/4 tab would be a good idea if we got any wind to deal with. ; -D

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
Starting off with a bad experiance is an easy way to lose confidence in self / boat (Skipper?!)
Anyway, getting back to Sarafina's situation........

....whilst surfing the 'net last night I think I may have come up with another solution to at least try:-

1) Practice some dancing.
2) put some music on.
3) Wear a Bikini (or at least start off with one ).
4) get some cold Beer in.
5) Buy a boat with an open plan layout (see below)

Except with a stainless steel mast post in the middle .

The idea is to get hubby to associate the boat with nice stuff .

Could even start off the "Training" whilst tied to the dock. or even shorebased .

Hubby can thank me later .
LOLOL. You are BAD. Pole dancing on the boat... Anyway... He has had PLENTY of that sort of training whilst tied to the dock, and occasionally while becalmed... But it was a good thought dude ; -)

And about that bad experience? See above... *sigh*

He has put alot of thought into this and really wants to do it. Wednesday went so astoundingly well we are both feeling really encouraged. Thanks for all the support.
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Old 24-04-2012, 09:31   #39
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Re: Comfort Levels on the Water

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and the guy had a reef in the main on the sea trial with about 5 knots of wind....
That might have been me.
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Old 24-04-2012, 10:05   #40
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Re: Comfort Levels on the Water

Sara, just dump the hubby, get a man who can sail.

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Old 24-04-2012, 18:04   #41
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Re: Comfort Levels on the Water

Sara;

Very very very interesting story.

I was going to suggest maybe a charter in the Carib (bareboat or not), including some sort of lessons down there?
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Old 26-04-2012, 11:13   #42
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Re: Comfort Levels on the Water

Sarafina:

Thank you for this posting. So many people share only the positive and don't go into the detail about the rough start. It makes me feel good to know there are others who are slow to get comfortable with sailing. I hope my husband will be as understanding as you are being.

Thank you. Thank you.
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Old 26-04-2012, 12:01   #43
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Re: Comfort Levels on the Water

Are you required to bow when addressing "himself" or is it just implied?
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Old 26-04-2012, 12:12   #44
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Re: Comfort Levels on the Water

Last night, late, Himself made his way home from BART. He arrived wet and tired and elated. He had another class last night and the light rain scared away the other students, so he basically got a private lesson.

Steve, who took him out, worked with him on tacking, and controlling heeling, two of his biggest bugaboos.

The Ranger is a small boat, but not so small as the Lazer we were out on the day he dumped it. Less sensitive and tippy, keeled instead of daggerboard, just in general a lot more stable. He was able, with Steve's help, to tack his way up the Oakland estuary, a nice protected body, and then had a nice beam reach back home. And he felt very little anxiety.

Steve's focus seems to have been on his control of the boat, so that he could keep it in a mode that felt safe to him, that would allow him to build his confidence. It worked. He came home riding the euphoric wave of having accomplished what he has wanted to do for so long; Sail, and ENJOY it!

He also has proposed that he do a 2 1/2 day accelerated sailing seminar. Mary is giving one for a young woman who has just signed on to the Clipper Race. Now that she has won a slot on board she thinks she had better ramp up her skill level and get sailing between now and December, when she heads off on her adventure.

It will be just the one other student and Himself, out with Mary. The price is reasonable. I am a bit concerned it's too much, too soon, given that he is just finding his way, but he is confident that he can go and have a good experience. When we discussed it we talked about how important it was for him to stay in touch with how he was feeling. If it turned out to be too much of a leap he would need to let Mary know, and perhaps withdraw from the class.

The advantage of the Wednesday night sails is it would get him water time in, if not exactly baby steps, then at least in manageable strides. I will be unhappy if this proves to be a step forward instead of a step back. I am really going with the fact that Mary and Steve feel that he has the bottom for it. After teaching all these years I have to think they are pretty good at reading student's capacities accurately. Afterguard's whole focus is to learn to sail in a low stress, fun environment. They even say on the website "The No Yelling" sailing school, which kinda cracks me up.

So it looks like he will be going out on Friday for more training. I have my fingers crossed that things continue to go well, and I am sending along with him that little packet of Valium ; -)

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Sara, just dump the hubby, get a man who can sail.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
Sara;

Very very very interesting story.

I was going to suggest maybe a charter in the Carib (bareboat or not), including some sort of lessons down there?
Oh you have no idea how much we would love to do that, but even if we could afford it I would be reluctant to commit that much in the way of resources and risk that it was going to work out. What if we got there and he choked and it was spoiled for him? I think he really needs more water under his keel before we do that. And frankly I don't think I would be up for a bareboat charter if I was going to have to be able to singlehand it should the need arise. I am a good enough sailor, but not experienced enough to take that on with out having been sailing far more regularly than I have been.

Quote:
Originally Posted by In Training View Post
Sarafina:

Thank you for this posting. So many people share only the positive and don't go into the detail about the rough start. It makes me feel good to know there are others who are slow to get comfortable with sailing. I hope my husband will be as understanding as you are being.

Thank you. Thank you.
I think everyone has their own comfort level, and when you find yours, you will be fine and dandy. And it takes more time for some folks to find that comfort level than it takes others. It's hard sometimes to be patient, but in the long run being impatient only makes things worse, so I have been practising my patience vigorously. I bet your husband will too. ; -)
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Old 26-04-2012, 12:37   #45
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Re: Comfort Levels on the Water

A serious aside, Its very unusual to find a man interested in sailing, that then finds the process daunting. Most that do, just have no interest. Theres no doubt you must be one in a million. Given all the men who sail and the wives who are terrified.

Interesting dilemma and most unusual.

Dave
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