Collapsing brokerage market for Monohulls

[Caribbeachbum]

In the last two years or so the brokerage market has been inundated with cruising catamarans, driving down the price.

I believe that the glut of catamarans is pushing down the price of monos as well, since (or so I believe) many people bought monos in the past simply because catamarans were out of their budget.

That is no longer the case. Now we can buy a nice, roomy 38-48' cat in the $200K zone.

We like sailing monos more, a lot more, even. But we're simply not willing to pay in that $200K range for a 46-55' mono when a catamaran is such a better liveaboard and now in the same price range (which is our budget for our "final" boat). If a monohull that we liked got marked down enough, however, that's what we'd buy, leaving us with a boat we love to sail and a fatter cruising kitty.

This is why I believe the market for monohull sailboats in the $150K-$250K range is almost immobile, especially when the boats are older ones. Or at least, in the process of collapsing. Sellers haven't realized this, though.

So my question is, well, there are two questions, actually. And I'm especially interested in hearing brokers' thoughts on this.

First, do you agree? I know I could have this all wrong.

And second, do you think sellers are interested in hearing what would be quite low-ball offers?

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[Tetepare]

I think you make an interesting point that the volume of cats is increasing and driving down the prices. As they are retired from charter and enter the market, the supply increases. I'll buy that.

However, the whole boating market is in a slump. In fact, most hobby-type markets are very much down, due to uncertainty in the economy. Face it, the economies globally are terrible. Canadians are dumping boats, Malaysia's economy is tanked, and Americans have little faith that the house of cards will last. Nobody wants to take the risk, particularly when a loan will be required.

[Pete7]

Plus all the European boat builders continuing to make new boats and the old ones, built in the 30 years are actually still very usable and not going anywhere.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Caribbeachbum

I..
This is why I believe the market for monohull sailboats in the $150K-$250K range is almost immobile, especially when the boats are older ones. ...
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I think that is probably the key word: Old expensive boats with an asking price of an almost a new mass production European one.

I believe Pete is right. Its seems tastes of American cruisers are changing...that and cats that on the US have perceptually a much bigger importance then in Europe, regarding the market.

You can see that on the boats shows in what concerns the number of monohulls presented towards the number of cruising multihulls. On a boat shows they have exposed the boats most cruisers want, being it American or European.

Also you can see that in Europe used monohull boats with few years are considerably less expensive than on the American market, meaning that there are a bigger demand of those boats on the American market.

[puffcard]

A very good friend who has been in the brokerage business for over 35 years. Told me he's selling boats, but believes there has been a price drop of over 20% on sailboats the last two years. Said a lot if it is sailboaters moving to trawlers and powerboats, age of people cruising and fuel prices is helping that.

[barnakiel]

Where we are, small cheap boats change hands easily. And also big boats priced low seem to trade well.

What seems to be lacking any liquidity is the center part of the mono business - boats say from 100k to say 500k. They seem not to trade even though many are priced fine. I think this implies either glut or else no money to spend in this client class (the middle class).

Cats priced in the same bracket seem to trade fine though.

This is the situation in S Europe / Med.

I am not a broker but many people ask me to find and help buy or else to help sell their boats. I "can tell" you which one will sell the moment I see the boat and the ticket.

b.

[Charlie]

I have been following Moody 425's for the last two years. I don't know about the selling price but the asking price has been dropping. They were in the $150k range and are now dropping to the low $100 and under. Some of it has to do with the strength of the dollar and some of it is the price dropping.

[tms]

I like both monohulls and cats. You get more living space plus a theoretical speed gain in catamarans, but the drawback has always been price. Now that very nice Cats are selling for $185k -$230k, it would be difficult to pay that much for a monohull.

I don't know how many monohulls over $150k will compete when catamarans are available.

[leftbrainstuff]

Markets are always changing and morphing. Just as good bluewater monos, that are still good boats today, saw the demise of those builders in the past, new buyers will emerge.

Modern equipment for off grid living is now good value durable and of good enough quality. I suspect we'll see new buyers emerge that didnt exist before.

We are seeing more interest in living aboard in general. Cats appeal to a large percentage of potential buyers but monos are not going away anytime soon.

Cats are obviously preferred by charter companies as they make more economic sense. The charter market has been a driving force for many decades.

The laws of supply and demand are always striving for equilibrium. Rather than disaster I see opportunities.

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[Rohan]

Originally Posted by tms

I like both monohulls and cats. You get more living space plus a theoretical speed gain in catamarans, but the drawback has always been price. Now that very nice Cats are selling for $185k -$230k, it would be difficult to pay that much for a monohull.

I don't know how many monohulls over $150k will compete when catamarans are available.

There seems to be some misunderstanding here. Catamarans never were really more expensive than monohulls (except in regard to marina slip rates). Yes, a 45' cat typically costs a lot more than a 45' monohull, but that's because that 45' cat is a lot wider and has more volume. If you compare boats by volume, that price difference pretty much disappears, in fact, in some cases makes cats even cheaper than monos.

And not to drift off subject, but monohulls have several advantages over cats (and visa versa), so even if they were priced the same, there are still a lot of reasons to get one over the other. It all depends what kind of sailing you plan to do.

[a64pilot]

Time will tell though if the average Cat ages as well as a well built mono.
I think due to the need for more lightweight construction, they won't, but that is just an opinion.
I think of course that a mono that uses the same construction techniques will not fare any better, it's construction techniques, not number of hulls

[Pete7]

Not sure either will survive into old age as some of the older boats today have. Before buying we chartered a 34ft Bavaria. With a deep narrow fin it sailed beautifully and was a doddle to park in a tight marina. However, the plastic cabinet doors whilst easy to clean for a charter boat just didn't look they would stand up to several decades of use. The bulkheads bonded to the hull with sealant didn't look right and so it went on. Instead we bought a late 1980s yacht built with nice teak faced plywood. 28 years on any marks can be sanded out and re-varnished, but what do you do with a broken plastic door?

Pete

[Island Time O25]

I think the trend toward cats among the cruising crowd is much more pronounced lately and will continue to gain vs monos. But for home based coastal sailors a cat is a non starter as marina fees, haulout/launch and storage costs make owning it prohibitively expensive in coastal realities. So as the cruisers get more and more into cats or some (due to age or cruising goals) into trawlers the coastal owners will stay with monos or (as economic situation deteriorates) even move toward trailerables.

I talked once to the people running a sailing club (not the one I was in but its more successful competitor) and they were saying that over the decades in operation they noticed a pronounced trend toward staying with the club longer as opposed to flying the coup and buying one's own. They said the only people today who buy are the few who have definite and immediate plans for cruising. Otherwise it is just too expensive to own a good size mono (never mind a cat) in our area, especially if Admiral is involved and needs to be satisfied as far as a nice clean and easily accessible marina, etc.

[daletournier]

I think all of the above is correct. I would emphasize our current economic situation, the world is saturated with debt, personally alot of people are hesitant to take on more debt ,even though debt is cheap right now.
From 2000-2008 people were using their houses as atm's to finance things such as boats, the wealth effect created by rising home prices.
Times have changed.
I also agree that sellers refuse to ,or deny the state of the market. I actually believe there are alot of boats out there that just will never sell.
Also I believe Paulos view regarding the style of boat the market is demanding has changed.

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[Island Time O25]

It's a classic "scissors" situation with your potential customers getting poorer yet production costs and regulatory schemes/climate getting more expensive. So that the only boats which get moved new are the ones being purchased by those whose income and wealth are mostly protected from economic downturns.

Other than relatively few cruisers, clubs, charter companies and other volume buyers I just don't see a significant number of potential buyers for anything in the $100K-$500K range, which I would assume is the mid range of the market, kind of like "buicks and toyotas" of the marine industry. Anyone who can easily afford $500K+ might as well get a brand new cat in $700K-1mil range. And someone who can "only" finance $50K-100K has a huge number of choices but only in used sector.

IMO to move $100K-300K used boats in today's economic reality would require sellers biting the bullet and pricing their boats at about 1/2 of today's asking prices. And I'm talking about the asking prices not final selling ones. Especially for mass produced cookie cutter brands which have nowhere near the longevity of the 60s and 70s models.