Coastal Sailing vs. Blue Water Sailing

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by colemj

Amen. That is also our experience cruising. In fact, I will be controversial enough to suggest that the people who stay in port the longest waiting for the calmest weather are often those with full keel, heavy "blue water" boats. Maybe this is just the Caribbean, or perhaps only our local experiences, but most of those nattering on incessantly about weather windows and describing in detail how much they have been beaten up by weather in the past are almost invariably on "blue water" boats. Meanwhile, all the Benetaeus and catamarans are coming and going at will. When we do see many of these boats out there, they are motoring in the dead calms they have been waiting for while constantly sending position and weather reports out to others at anchor.

Now, don't get me wrong - I don't think this has anything to do with the style of boat. I think it speaks more to the mindset and experience level of those people who deeply believe they need one of this style of boats to survive in normal cruising grounds.

Unfortunately, many of them are also the ones banging on constantly against other types of boats being dangerous, as those boats leave the harbor for a good sail to their next destination.

Mark

Actually, it's probably because they are older folks on the full keel boats. When you are older, you have less energy and need a lot more sleep etc.

Now if a young person were to chose a full keel boat and had some experience, he would be out in anything your catamaran could deal with without too much effort.

I watch these guys for years at the dock where I kept my catamarans. Mind you, my boats were 16'- 20'. I would sail out and they were on the dock working on their boats. I would sail back in and they were on the dock working on their boats. This over a 14 year period maybe 8-10 months out of the year.

I got to know them and as you can see I have a full keel boat. These old boys just love their boats.

They would freak out as to what I could do on my boats. I had to sail between a couple docks into the prevailing winds and tack twice before I was 100' of the beach just to get out.

When I or my son would sail back in when the wind was gusting to 30 plus on a boat that weighed around 300lbs, they would just shake their heads.

It wasn't that they couldn't have sailed in those conditions, it was way bother when there are so many other pretty days to sail.

I learn quite a bit from those guys.

Also, if you do somehow lose your rudder on a full keel boat, you can still sail the thing in driving it with the sails. Try that on a spade rudder/fin keeler.

[colemj]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Actually, it's probably because they are older folks on the full keel boats. When you are older, you have less energy and need a lot more sleep etc.

Well, that is a good hypothesis, but the fact is that most of the people we meet out cruising in "blue water", Bene-type and catamarans are all about the same age. We are slightly younger than most, but not by much.

My observation holds true in our experience even when accounting for age.

Mark

[colemj]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Also, if you do somehow lose your rudder on a full keel boat, you can still sail the thing in driving it with the sails. Try that on a spade rudder/fin keeler.

And if you somehow lose your rudder on a catamaran, you can still sail the thing using the other rudder.

If you somehow lose your engine on a full keel boat, see how well using your other engine works for you…

I never really understand this cherry-picking line of reasoning that is so prevalent in these threads.

Mark

[mystic_voyager]

Originally Posted by playfair1965

My question is there a difference between coastal sailing boats and Water boats">blue water boats. Also how far out form shore would blue water sailing be?

While most all offshore / blue water / ocean passage making vessels have common requirements for tankage, stowage, seaworthiness you might be surprised to see how small are the vessels of some famous young passage makers.

Tania Aebi who sailed the Contessa 26, "Varuna";
Robin Lee Graham who sailed the 24 foot Lapworth sloop "Dove" (and later an Allied 33);
Lin and Larry Pardey who built and sailed the 26 foot Lyle Hess designed Bristol Channel Cutter "Seraffyn".

If you were to read books like Lin and Larry Pardey's travelog, "Cruising in Seraffyn", you might get a slightly different take on what constitutes a proper ocean voyaging vessel.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by mystic_voyager

While most all offshore / blue water / ocean passage making vessels have common requirements for tankage, stowage, seaworthiness you might be surprised to see how small are the vessels of some famous young passage makers.

Tania Aebi who sailed the Contessa 26, "Varuna";
Robin Lee Graham who sailed the 24 foot Lapworth sloop "Dove" (and later an Allied 33);
Lin and Larry Pardey who built and sailed the 26 foot Lyle Hess designed Bristol Channel Cutter "Seraffyn".

If you were to read books like Lin and Larry Pardey's travelog, "Cruising in Seraffyn", you might get a slightly different take on what constitutes a proper ocean voyaging vessel.

Don't forget about this guy...
Around the World with Cooking Fat | Gumbopirate

[StuM]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Don't forget about this guy...
Around the World with Cooking Fat | Gumbopirate

Or this one?

Russian adventurer Fedor Konyukhov arrives in Queensland's Sunshine Coast after solo voyage from Chile - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by StuM

Or this one?

Russian adventurer Fedor Konyukhov arrives in Queensland's Sunshine Coast after solo voyage from Chile - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Don't get the comment about choosing to row rather than sail cutting the journey time from 300 to 150 days..

[downunder]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Don't get the comment about choosing to row rather than sail cutting the journey time from 300 to 150 days..

I think he has sailed around the world solo at least twice. Rowing must have been a faster passage than on his fin keeler?

[robert sailor]

Smaller boats and youth seem to be a good match. Its usually a budget thing as younger people often don't have deep pockets. We have over the years met some wonderful young voyagers in small boats and they usually live a very minimalist lifestyle which is needed with small boats. Most older folks could never cope with this sort of lifestyle much less embrace it and love it.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by colemj

In fact, I will be controversial enough to suggest that the people who stay in port the longest waiting for the calmest weather are often those with full keel, heavy "blue water" boats. Maybe this is just the Caribbean, or perhaps only our local experiences, but most of those nattering on incessantly about weather windows and describing in detail how much they have been beaten up by weather in the past are almost invariably on "blue water" boats. Meanwhile, all the Benetaeus and catamarans are coming and going at will. When we do see many of these boats out there, they are motoring in the dead calms they have been waiting for while constantly sending position and weather reports out to others at anchor.


AND THEN YOU SAY


Now, don't get me wrong - I don't think this has anything to do with the style of boat.

I'm going to be controversial, and say that this falls under the category of making up your own statistics, with a strong nod towards selection bias.

Even further, without thinking about it too much, I'm going to suggest that this might be a simple reflection of the average type of boat in your neighborhood, possibly combined with your desire for a particular conclusion.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by colemj

And if you somehow lose your rudder on a catamaran, you can still sail the thing using the other rudder.

If you somehow lose your engine on a full keel boat, see how well using your other engine works for you.

Mark

You actually don't need the engine at all to sail a full keel boat.

Another thing, old full keel boats make excellent boats to test the waters of the cruising world. They are built so strong that they seem to want to last forever.

I'm not sure if I'll ever be a cruiser having raced very fast catamarans for so long but a decent well built full keel boat can be had at a very low price. I could load up and do the Bahama run and cruise the Caribbean on this boat as is.

I have $8,000.00 in my boat (over three years now) and that includes trying a second diesel. Plus my boat has solar, ac power to charge my laptop, 2 GPS units, Depth, new main, 5 anchors, dodger, bimini, etc, etc.

I have always thought it best to sort of pay your dues when learning a new sport/hobby. Full Keel boats are not very efficient as compared to the newer models, but they are safe and strong.

This old Bristol I have now has never had any trouble with the steep waves here in the bay and I am down where the bay meets the ocean and it gets quite ugly at times.

You can argue how great the other boats are but the fact is these old full keel boats are a good way to go until you get used to all aspects of cruising. By then though, some will chose to stay with the older style.

Also, finding a parking place at most any marina is pretty easy on an 8' wide full keel boat. Not so with a catamaran.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Smaller boats and youth seem to be a good match. Its usually a budget thing as younger people often don't have deep pockets. We have over the years met some wonderful young voyagers in small boats and they usually live a very minimalist lifestyle which is needed with small boats. Most older folks could never cope with this sort of lifestyle much less embrace it and love it.

I'm thinking small boat sailing helps keep you young. (if it doesn't kill you first)

Also, some old folks (55-90) can afford a nice boat but go small anyway until they are sure this cruising business is right for them.

I'm still considering whether or not it would be best to cruise some in my old Bristol before getting a newer, larger boat.

But while shopping for the newer boats, I'm amazed at how lightly built most of them are as compared to a 1974 Bristol 27. Because of this, I'm now looking at a couple Bristol 35.5's

[robert sailor]

Yes the new production boats are a lot lighter but also faster, especially in lighter winds. I know small boats can be fun, I had my run at it with a Contessa 32. Beautiful boat to look at and to sail plus it is a bullet proof offshore boat. My problem was at 6'-1" I barely fit in the VBerth and it was a tight fit everywhere, still I loved it but that was almost 30 years ago. Today I need a little more room and a few more places for personal crap that I didn't have/need 30 years ago. If I were you and you are still good and flexible then I'd stick with the small boat and have a go at it, sounds like nothing but fun!

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Yes the new production boats are a lot lighter but also faster, especially in lighter winds. I know small boats can be fun, I had my run at it with a Contessa 32. Beautiful boat to look at and to sail plus it is a bullet proof offshore boat. My problem was at 6'-1" I barely fit in the VBerth and it was a tight fit everywhere, still I loved it but that was almost 30 years ago. Today I need a little more room and a few more places for personal crap that I didn't have/need 30 years ago. If I were you and you are still good and flexible then I'd stick with the small boat and have a go at it, sounds like nothing but fun!

Then there's 72 year old Webb Chiles on his Moore 24 at a little over 2000lbs.

MOORE 24 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

http://www.cruisingworld.com/how-to/...fitting-gannet

He has almost completed the first leg of his voyage to Hawaii:

Yellowbrick Tracking - YBlog - gannet

[mystic_voyager]

Originally Posted by thomm225

But while shopping for the newer boats, I'm amazed at how lightly built most of them are as compared to a 1974 Bristol 27. Because of this, I'm now looking at a couple Bristol 35.5's

The Ted Hood / Dieter Empacher designed C/B Bristols are sweet -- particularly the 35.5. It's just about a perfect short-crewed / single-handed coastal cruising boat. I've owned two classic Bristols over the years, and sailed the 35.5 on several occasions. Loved it. Very balanced.