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Old 26-03-2016, 12:36   #91
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Re: Coast Guard/DEA boardings

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
What law, or laws, are you specifically referring too?

If your suggesting that all US laws apply to a person on their US flagged vessel, no matter what the country they are in is just bunkem
You are entitled to your opinion.

But you might just change your opinion if you read up on the Special Maritime and Territorial Jurisdiction.
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Old 26-03-2016, 16:00   #92
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Re: Coast Guard/DEA boardings

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You are entitled to your opinion. am I thank you very much

But you might just change your opinion if you read up on the Special Maritime and Territorial Jurisdiction.
Ok, id suggest YOU google it and read the 'special Maritime jurisdiction' contained in item 7 you will see that such area's do not include soveign waters of other countries.
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Old 26-03-2016, 16:17   #93
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Re: Coast Guard/DEA boardings

Believe what you want, but lets stop derailing the thread, cause it's one of those esoteric parts of the law that only attorneys (and the accused) deal with.
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Old 26-03-2016, 16:26   #94
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Re: Coast Guard/DEA boardings

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Originally Posted by Boatswain2PA View Post
Believe what you want, but lets stop derailing the thread, cause it's one of those esoteric parts of the law that only attorneys (and the accused) deal with.
Dude the thread is 'coast guard/DEA boardings' and some one claimed they can board you on a lake in China and YOU supported them with claims that this Maritime and Jurisdictional thingy means American jurisdiction reaches 'anywhere' regardless of the jurisdiction in other words, this is everything to do with the thread. No derailing occurring.

Now, stop posting 'you can believe what you want crap' and either admit you might have made a teeny eeny mistake OR justify what you posted im all ears and hurry up the billabongs drying out
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Old 26-03-2016, 16:31   #95
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Re: Coast Guard/DEA boardings

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I did 20 years as an operator in the Coast Guard, including command of two stations. I never did like the law enforcement portion of that career, and instead focused more on the search & rescue aspect, but I still had to do thousands of boardings over my career.
Few questions for you sir.
First, I do not have an overboard discharge on my boat. What do I tell them?
To remove waste from the boat it has to be sucked out via the hole on deck.
Second, can they make me dissamble my engine room so they can see my bilge?
To reach my engine you have to remove parts of the companionway, the steps, and the floor. Not safe to do in big seas...?
third, If I feel they are putting me and my boat in danger by attempting the boarding, can I say anything to stop them?
Say they are about to gouge my boat, or in really rough weather, land on my deck. Do I just have to have my boat damaged, and deal with it out of my own pocket?
Last, I was boarded in Barnagat light NJ at a dock. When they did the inspection they tracked in shells and **** from the dock where birds break up crabs and eat them. They left deep gouges in all my teak deck, cabin sole, and teak ladder. Am I just going to have to fix it all myself, and oh well too bad, or should I be filing a report for compensation? Bad part is it was 2 years ago...?

Thank you
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Old 26-03-2016, 16:36   #96
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Re: Coast Guard/DEA boardings

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Originally Posted by sailnow2011 View Post
Few questions for you sir.
First, I do not have an overboard discharge on my boat. What do I tell them?
To remove waste from the boat it has to be sucked out via the hole on deck.
Second, can they make me dissamble my engine room so they can see my bilge?
To reach my engine you have to remove parts of the companionway, the steps, and the floor. Not safe to do in big seas...?
third, If I feel they are putting me and my boat in danger by attempting the boarding, can I say anything to stop them?
Say they are about to gouge my boat, or in really rough weather, land on my deck. Do I just have to have my boat damaged, and deal with it out of my own pocket?
Last, I was boarded in Barnagat light NJ at a dock. When they did the inspection they tracked in shells and **** from the dock where birds break up crabs and eat them. They left deep gouges in all my teak deck, cabin sole, and teak ladder. Am I just going to have to fix it all myself, and oh well too bad, or should I be filing a report for compensation? Bad part is it was 2 years ago...?

Thank you
Before he answers, were you at the time on a lake in China?
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Old 26-03-2016, 16:58   #97
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Re: Coast Guard/DEA boardings

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Originally Posted by sailnow2011 View Post
Few questions for you sir.
First, I do not have an overboard discharge on my boat. What do I tell them?
To remove waste from the boat it has to be sucked out via the hole on deck.
Second, can they make me dissamble my engine room so they can see my bilge?
To reach my engine you have to remove parts of the companionway, the steps, and the floor. Not safe to do in big seas...?
third, If I feel they are putting me and my boat in danger by attempting the boarding, can I say anything to stop them?
Say they are about to gouge my boat, or in really rough weather, land on my deck. Do I just have to have my boat damaged, and deal with it out of my own pocket?
Last, I was boarded in Barnagat light NJ at a dock. When they did the inspection they tracked in shells and **** from the dock where birds break up crabs and eat them. They left deep gouges in all my teak deck, cabin sole, and teak ladder. Am I just going to have to fix it all myself, and oh well too bad, or should I be filing a report for compensation? Bad part is it was 2 years ago...?

Thank you
I'm a bit rusty on this as after I retired I brain-dumped everything and went back to school, but I'll give the best answers I can.

No OB discharge = no "marine toilet", so they have nothing to check...other than to make sure that there is, indeed, no OB discharge.

Re looking at bilge...yes, they CAN, but generally wouldn't unless something makes them believe there is a risk of pollution. Generally there is always SOME portion of the bilge that can be quickly inspected via flashlight to make sure you don't have a bunch of oil in the bilge that can be pumped out with your bilge pump. I always taught my teams to take a peak in the bilge, but wouldn't expect the to take apart the companionway in a squeaky clean boat in any sort of sea state unless they saw something wrong.

Can you SAY anything to stop them? Yeah, tell them you think it's too dangerous. Ask if they can inspect you when you put in. I would suggest that does two things. First - tells the Coxswain (boat captain) that you think it's dangerous and that should give him/her a gut check to re-evaluate whether this boarding is worth it or not. Second, if there is any damage done then you can put on your damage claim that you told them the sea state was too dangerous.

But remember, these guys are used to doing this. While you may have been boarded 4-5 times over your boating life, these guys often do 4-5 a day. I think the US Coast Guard has some of the best boat drivers in the world. I've put people on, and taken people off, of boats and ships in some pretty hairy conditions.

However, ever boat driver has his first day in charge as well....

Regarding damages done during boardings - yes you can put in a "damage claim" for damages done, although I'm not sure if scratches on deck & ladders would count. It sounds like this was a "dockside boarding", which, unless they witnessed you underway, they didn't have jurisdiction for an inspection unless you agreed to it (unless they had probable cause of drugs or such). Believe it or not, I have done dockside boardings on fine sailboats/cruisers in my socks.
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Old 26-03-2016, 17:20   #98
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Re: Coast Guard/DEA boardings

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Originally Posted by Boatswain2PA View Post
I'm a bit rusty on this as after I retired I brain-dumped everything and went back to school, but I'll give the best answers I can.

No OB discharge = no "marine toilet", so they have nothing to check...other than to make sure that there is, indeed, no OB discharge.

Re looking at bilge...yes, they CAN, but generally wouldn't unless something makes them believe there is a risk of pollution. Generally there is always SOME portion of the bilge that can be quickly inspected via flashlight to make sure you don't have a bunch of oil in the bilge that can be pumped out with your bilge pump. I always taught my teams to take a peak in the bilge, but wouldn't expect the to take apart the companionway in a squeaky clean boat in any sort of sea state unless they saw something wrong.

Can you SAY anything to stop them? Yeah, tell them you think it's too dangerous. Ask if they can inspect you when you put in. I would suggest that does two things. First - tells the Coxswain (boat captain) that you think it's dangerous and that should give him/her a gut check to re-evaluate whether this boarding is worth it or not. Second, if there is any damage done then you can put on your damage claim that you told them the sea state was too dangerous.

But remember, these guys are used to doing this. While you may have been boarded 4-5 times over your boating life, these guys often do 4-5 a day. I think the US Coast Guard has some of the best boat drivers in the world. I've put people on, and taken people off, of boats and ships in some pretty hairy conditions.

However, ever boat driver has his first day in charge as well....

Regarding damages done during boardings - yes you can put in a "damage claim" for damages done, although I'm not sure if scratches on deck & ladders would count. It sounds like this was a "dockside boarding", which, unless they witnessed you underway, they didn't have jurisdiction for an inspection unless you agreed to it (unless they had probable cause of drugs or such). Believe it or not, I have done dockside boardings on fine sailboats/cruisers in my socks.
Thanks for the info.
S/V Seawolf was inspected, and they swabbed them for drug residue on their persons. Is that something new?

Dockside was after I entered the port, from sea. So they can't just do random boardings of docked boats?
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Old 26-03-2016, 17:25   #99
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Re: Coast Guard/DEA boardings

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Thanks for the info.
S/V Seawolf was inspected, and they swabbed them for drug residue on their persons. Is that something new?

Dockside was after I entered the port, from sea. So they can't just do random boardings of docked boats?
No, can't do random boardings of docked boats. You have to be engaged in that "regulated industry" (ie: boating) to be inspected. However, if they witnessed you underway, then they can board you.

Swabbing them for drug residue during random boardings is new to me, but I've been retired for a while now, and on to greener pastures.

On a side note: Now I see why certain people were banished from western civilization..... to an island on the other side of the planet.
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Old 26-03-2016, 18:21   #100
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Re: Coast Guard/DEA boardings

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Originally Posted by Boatswain2PA View Post
No, can't do random boardings of docked boats. You have to be engaged in that "regulated industry" (ie: boating) to be inspected. However, if they witnessed you underway, then they can board you.

Swabbing them for drug residue during random boardings is new to me, but I've been retired for a while now, and on to greener pastures.



On a side note: Now I see why certain people were banished from western civilization..... to an island on the other side of the planet.
Hey, i heard that
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Old 26-03-2016, 18:35   #101
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Re: Coast Guard/DEA boardings

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Old 26-03-2016, 18:54   #102
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Re: Coast Guard/DEA boardings

I don't know why this has gone on so long.

The jurisdiction the USA has over US documented vessels means that if you are a US citizen on a US documented vessel YOU cannot stop the USCG from boarding you.
Obviously the government of another country can prevent the USCG from boarding if the vessel is in the other country's waters.

It's two different things folks.
Look up the definitions of "jurisdiction" and "venue".
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Old 26-03-2016, 18:57   #103
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Re: Coast Guard/DEA boardings

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I don't know why this has gone on so long.

The jurisdiction the USA has over US documented vessels means that if you are a US citizen on a US documented vessel YOU cannot stop the USCG from boarding you.
Obviously the government of another country can prevent the USCG from boarding if the vessel is in the other country's waters.

It's two different things folks.
Look up the definitions of "jurisdiction" and "venue".
spot on. But some seem to think the issue of 'jurisdiction' is not so obvious as you and I think it is.
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Old 26-03-2016, 20:43   #104
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Re: Coast Guard/DEA boardings

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I don't know why this has gone on so long.

The jurisdiction the USA has over US documented vessels means that if you are a US citizen on a US documented vessel YOU cannot stop the USCG from boarding you.
Obviously the government of another country can prevent the USCG from boarding if the vessel is in the other country's waters.

It's two different things folks.
Look up the definitions of "jurisdiction" and "venue".
It means a bit more than that.

Correct that "the government of another country can prevent the USCG from boarding if the vessel is in the other country's water."

But federal law still applies on US documented vessels, even in foreign territorial waters. Two hypotheticals: First, in the unlikely even that a federal officer is on a US documented vessel in foreign territorial waters, they could enforce federal law. Second, if a federal crime was committed on a US documented vessel in foreign territorial waters....when that vessel left the foreign territorial waters and entered the high seas (or US waters) then the USCG (or other federal agencies) could then impose their jurisdiction..

Either way, US federal law still applies to all US documented vessels, no matter where they are.
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Old 26-03-2016, 21:02   #105
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Re: Coast Guard/DEA boardings

Thinking about it ... congress passing a law stating the Coast Guard can search ... without cause ANY U.S. "documented", ship(which, I'm sure that licensing is also a form of "documentation") ... makes full and complete sense ... even if it's Russia, China, North Korea, or even the moon and Mars for that matter...
notwithstanding that some future court might rule that Americans do have full rights under the 4th Amendment, some time in the future.

Obviously, unless something very "stupid"endous, were to occur, no Coast Guard vessel will ever stop American Ships in China, or Russia.

BUT ... what if something happened ... what if China, got involved with a war with us, because of North Korea ... and just for the sake of argument, let's say we whipped the caraap out of China and were now occupying China. Without a law that would circumvent American citizens right to the 4th Amendment, what would be the "authority", to stop a U.S. ship in China, on an inland lake?

With this thought, I wonder if many other countries also reserve the right to stop their documented ships in other countries ... same as us.

I wonder if the law is a "catch-all", law, cause at the moment no Coast Guard ship is going to stop and board and American, or anyone else's ship in another country's soveriegn(sp) space, without that county's permission, or because we've just invaded that country.
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