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Old 07-04-2015, 10:44   #31
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Re: Closing date before sea trial?

Just remember, the only one working for you in the process is the Surveyor you hired. Everyone else wants to close the sale for the seller.
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Old 07-04-2015, 11:12   #32
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Re: Closing date before sea trial?

Wait for the seatrial AND a few days after to let things percolate through your brain/gut filters. Sea trials are not just to find the broken bits. They are also your chance to see if you really like and still want the boat. You will have some skin in the game already since you would have paid for a survey so the broker/seller should not worry you are just kicking tires at this point.

AND - surveyors are not always beholden to the buyer despite what you might think. Many of them are actually beholden to the selling brokers who steer customers their way. Most of them are honest and will work for the customer but I would want references from satisfied buyers in any situation. If you are from out of town you may not know the local surveyors. Buyer beware! No offense meant to all the honest surveyors out there. But I went after known pit bull surveyors when I bought. I paid for it when the insurance company wanted all the items they found on the survey repaired but I didn't mind knowing what those were.
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Old 07-04-2015, 11:16   #33
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Re: Closing date before sea trial?

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Originally Posted by exMaggieDrum View Post
Wait for the seatrial AND a few days after to let things percolate through your brain/gut filters. Sea trials are not just to find the broken bits. They are also your chance to see if you really like and still want the boat. You will have some skin in the game already since you would have paid for a survey so the broker/seller should not worry you are just kicking tires at this point.

AND - surveyors are not always beholden to the buyer despite what you might think. Many of them are actually beholden to the selling brokers who steer customers their way. Most of them are honest and will work for the customer but I would want references from satisfied buyers in any situation. If you are from out of town you may not know the local surveyors. Buyer beware! No offense meant to all the honest surveyors out there. But I went after known pit bull surveyors when I bought. I paid for it when the insurance company wanted all the items they found on the survey repaired but I didn't mind knowing what those were.
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Old 07-04-2015, 11:38   #34
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Re: Closing date before sea trial?

You must keep in mind, a broker, like a realtor, represents and therefore protects the seller not the buyer. They can fill you full of dodo and then after they con you into closing before the sea trial, say, oh you misunderstood or some other crap! So the only answer to this is NO
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Old 07-04-2015, 11:43   #35
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Re: Closing date before sea trial?

OK, I really like the unanimity here.

But what's so hard?

"Would you buy a used car without taking it for a test drive?"

Quote THAT to the broker.

Good luck.
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Old 07-04-2015, 13:57   #36
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Re: Closing date before sea trial?

An escrow for a winter sale in the north, when a sea trail can't be made is fairly typical. You take a chance that the amount may be insufficient. If it's more than the escrow - it's on you! (Unless you're lucky).

If you are only 2 to 3 weeks away from putting the boat in - JUST WAIT! What's 2 to 3 weeks?!

My story. We escrowed $15,000. Did the sea trial and everything looked good. Except no one (including the surveyor), saw the four bolts from the injection pump backed-out. 40 miles later and 20 miles offshore on the delivery, the pump sheared the bolts off and began filling the bilge with diesel, rather than the engine. Fortunately sailboats have an alternate form of propulsion and we made port. Since the sea trial was over, we had to make the case that problem was manifesting prior to that. We had a decent broker and a fine upstanding seller that covered it. The bill . . . $5000.

So, definitely wait the two or three weeks and take as many professional inspectors on the sea trial as you can. Make sure you go through everything, even the stuff you may already have surveyed. This is your last chance to make a case. Spend as much time as it takes to make sure you're comfortable. If you're using a surveyor, work with him (her), before the actual sea trial to determine what the checklist will include. And for Heaven's sake - check your injector pump!
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Old 07-04-2015, 14:12   #37
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Re: Closing date before sea trial?

To add to the chorus, I'd go ahead and find another boat anyway, just on principle.

I'd make sure the next boat was represented by a different broker. I would also be sure the now unpaid pushy jerk, as well as the seller he represents, were aware that his unscrupulous behavior was the reason. Would also probably share this information with subsequent sellers and brokers just in case they had similar leanings.

I've had enough of this type of...stuff...to last several lifetimes. The more often such misbehavior is met with abject failure, the more likely it will change.

Not that I have a strong opinion or anything...

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Old 07-04-2015, 18:24   #38
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Re: Closing date before sea trial?

About the surveyor. If the broker or seller recommends a particular surveyor, write their name down. Then get someone else. Too often brokers pass on work to surveyors to get a better survey in exchange for getting them work. I did just that, asked the broker for names, then made sure I got someone else. The broker was pissed off when I showed up with a surveyor he didnt know; I gave him a look like f*** y**.
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Old 07-04-2015, 18:31   #39
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Re: Closing date before sea trial?

Stu nailed it!!!
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Old 08-04-2015, 06:49   #40
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Re: Closing date before sea trial?

what is the reason for a sea trial?
a fun sail?, I think not.
wait for the sea trial
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Old 08-04-2015, 10:42   #41
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Re: Closing date before sea trial?

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Originally Posted by redhead View Post
...most brokers are committed to making the deal and since you're not paying the commission directly why should they consider what's in your best interests? Use a buyers broker - it doesn't cost the earth and you will have a professional, on your side whispering good advice in your ear.

I believe the thread is unanimous in recommending you use your power while the money is still on your side. I've never seen a unanimous thread before!...
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Stu nailed it!!!
Yes.

At least in my case as a buyer, the brokers' commissions come out of the down payment. It's not paid directly, but to the seller's broker who takes the commissions out before passing on the residual to the seller. The only one putting money into the deal is you, so you hold ultimate power provided your emotions don't override your good judgment.

Also, in my experience closing comes quickly. In my case, 30 days...I would recommend asking for more time going into the deal. In that time you (may) need to line up marine, rigging and mechanical surveyors, arrange to pull the boat for a hull survey and undertake a sea trial which requires scheduling the buying and selling brokers plus you and any experts you may want to be on board for the trial. Then arrange for a slip to keep her in, insurance and raise the cash or perhaps financing. Getting good people to come out on a week or so notice is difficult.

It is easy to be overcome by events if you are not highly organized about this. The seller and brokers will not get a dime for the time they have invested unless the deal closes, so they will be pressuring to close on their schedule.

You need to have a plan B and C which could be: B) Be prepared to walk...I know it's hard to image but there will always be another great boat. Make sure you let everyone involved there is another specific candidate you are looking at (from different brokers); C) Ask for a reasonable extension to close the deal.
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Old 08-04-2015, 11:45   #42
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Re: Closing date before sea trial?

The broker can extend the contract with the agreement of the seller. There is no reason for you to close prior to a sea trial. To some $5k is not much and to others it is a lot but.... why should you put yourself in that position? Tell him to extend the contract or refund your deposit.
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Old 08-04-2015, 11:49   #43
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Re: Closing date before sea trial?

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The broker can extend the contract with the agreement of the seller. There is no reason for you to close prior to a sea trial. To some $5k is not much and to others it is a lot but.... why should you put yourself in that position? Tell him to extend the contract or refund your deposit.
$5K may not be enough if a new engine is needed.
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Old 08-04-2015, 15:20   #44
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Re: Closing date before sea trial?

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Originally Posted by duefocena View Post
The broker can extend the contract with the agreement of the seller. There is no reason for you to close prior to a sea trial. To some $5k is not much and to others it is a lot but.... why should you put yourself in that position? Tell him to extend the contract or refund your deposit.
It's the seller who is delaying the sale, not the buyer. Tell the broker to put pressure on the seller, not on you. As to extending the contract, I would not even mention that to the broker. You might want to use it as an exit strategy in the future.
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Old 08-04-2015, 15:32   #45
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Re: Closing date before sea trial?

I am a former licensed California broker. Under no circumstances should you close before the sea trial. I suspect that this pressure to close is simply the salesman trying to collect his commission sooner. Unethical at best, and trying to avoid known issues at worst. In my opinion the sea trial should have occurred before spending money on the survey.
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