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Old 18-08-2013, 08:08   #46
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Re: Choosing the perfect boat

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Originally Posted by Bash View Post
You're wasting both your time and ours. If you want to do research on sailing/cruising, get off the internet and get out on a boat.

No one has ever learned to sail, let alone cruise, by surfing the web.
Easy Bash. She's writing a book many of might one day read and enjoy.
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Old 18-08-2013, 08:44   #47
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Re: Choosing the perfect boat

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You're wasting both your time and ours. If you want to do research on sailing/cruising, get off the internet and get out on a boat.

No one has ever learned to sail, let alone cruise, by surfing the web.
To be fair, we have had folks turn up on CF with less knowledge and bigger plans who were actually intending to get on a boat and they get lots of advice (whether of any help is another thing!).........at least this way nobody dies .


To OP - you are not the first writer to have turned up on CF over the years looking to research, one thing that they have all had in common is..........we never hear from them again! - at least with real sailors a chance of a SAR hitting the news .........I presume it is because the books never get published, or written?! - or maybe we just get forgotten?
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Old 18-08-2013, 08:45   #48
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Re: Choosing the Perfect Boat

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Dee B:

The heroine would probably not choose a Valiant 40, because of their record of getting rolled over; although, that could add a plot twist if you wanted it to.
Sorry for the thread drift but had to ask. Really? I had not heard about this. Can you point me towards some details?

Thanks
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Old 18-08-2013, 12:49   #49
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Re: Choosing the perfect boat

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
To be fair, we have had folks turn up on CF with less knowledge and bigger plans who were actually intending to get on a boat and they get lots of advice (whether of any help is another thing!).........at least this way nobody dies .


To OP - you are not the first writer to have turned up on CF over the years looking to research, one thing that they have all had in common is..........we never hear from them again! - at least with real sailors a chance of a SAR hitting the news .........I presume it is because the books never get published, or written?! - or maybe we just get forgotten?
I wonder if it is because of all the abuse one gets to read in between the helpful replies?

As I research, I keep a list of people who help, so they all get mentioned in the acknowledgements (that's the part at the end of a book that no-one reads, so there may lie part of your answer).
As for the some of the books never getting written, well it is not an easy process and for every book that hits the shelves, many more never get completed. It always means a lot of grief for their authors. The writing process is as difficult as it is fragile. Sometimes it can take as little as few discouraging comments to stop it altogether.

Many people have PM'd me already advising that I ignore the bad tempered, childish, snobbish, snotty, ignorant or time-wasting comments (none of these words mine, by the way). They are right of course and as I've said before, I will gratefully welcome help where it is freely given.

As for those who think that I'm wasting their time, I suggest once more that they stay away from my threads and spend their time elsewhere. They'll be saving us both the trouble.

I am smiling because of the few other comments that I've gotten along the lines of 'go sailing yourself' or 'get an instructor'. Who ever said I wasn't?

When I started on this story years ago I had done a bit of scuba diving in the med as a child. Since some of the story has to do with diving, I decided I didn't know enough about it. I left everything behind (job, friends, boyfriend, cats) and went to leave in South-East Asia and the Middle-East for two years. I trained as a scuba instructor so I could support myself. No-one there called me a fraud and I'm hoping my readers won't either. I loved every day of it of course.

Now I'm getting to write another part of the book which has to do with a long sailing journey across the oceans. What do you think I'm going to do? Why would anyone automatically assume that I'm happy with just asking questions on the Internet? What makes these people think that I haven't yet started taking lessons at our local club? Is it lack of imagination, snobbery or arrogance that dominates their thinking pattern? How about we all stopped making assumptions and just got on instead?

The truth is that sailing is a much bigger subject than Scuba, although there probably would be some proud diver to disagree. One instructor, as good as they may be, will not hold all the answers. As Jeff has already pointed out, anyone's answer will only reflect their personality. Even if I wanted to spend another two years writing the book, it wouldn't be enough to give me the combined knowledge that all of you hold. A lifetime wouldn't be enough. So I have to ask, even if it means becoming the recipient of other people's negative, unimaginative projections and uncourteous manners. I don't care. What I'm doing matters too much and anyway and there are so many very good people to make up for the others.
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Old 18-08-2013, 12:57   #50
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Re: Choosing the Perfect Boat

Dee, thanks for filling in the blanks. Now I understand your approach and goals better. Originally, it really sounded like just another "What's the best boat...?" question.

Upon further review, it still does based on the feedback you've so kindly shared. Why? 'Cuz whatever boat anyone here on this thread mentions, there are dozens of other worthy candidates. Many of them being sailed by folks who may or may not participate on his or other boating forums.

Have you considered just picking a reasonably representative world class cruiser, finding the layout online and just going for it? As you said, the sail itself is only part of the story.

For example, there could be days of discussion about aft heads, forward heads, boats big enough for crew quarters (yes a Bene 50 can be sailed by two and has crew quarters forward), and so on.

Good luck.
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Old 18-08-2013, 13:04   #51
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Re: Choosing the Perfect Boat

It is not a Valiant.

It is not Marseille, Fl. It is Marseille, FR.

Off course, we all know there are Paris, London and Warszawa in the US. But the OP meant the real thing.

I bet it will be a French plastique fantastique.

b.
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Old 18-08-2013, 13:09   #52
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Re: Choosing the perfect boat

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Originally Posted by DeeB View Post
I wonder if it is because of all the abuse one gets to read in between the helpful replies?

As I research, I keep a list of people who help, so they all get mentioned in the acknowledgements (that's the part at the end of a book that no-one reads, so there may lie part of your answer).
As for the some of the books never getting written, well it is not an easy process and for every book that hits the shelves, many more never get completed. It always means a lot of grief for their authors. The writing process is as difficult as it is fragile. Sometimes it can take as little as few discouraging comments to stop it altogether.

Many people have PM'd me already advising that I ignore the bad tempered, childish, snobbish, snotty, ignorant or time-wasting comments (none of these words mine, by the way). They are right of course and as I've said before, I will gratefully welcome help where it is freely given.

As for those who think that I'm wasting their time, I suggest once more that they stay away from my threads and spend their time elsewhere. They'll be saving us both the trouble.

I am smiling because of the few other comments that I've gotten along the lines of 'go sailing yourself' or 'get an instructor'. Who ever said I wasn't?

When I started on this story years ago I had done a bit of scuba diving in the med as a child. Since some of the story has to do with diving, I decided I didn't know enough about it. I left everything behind (job, friends, boyfriend, cats) and went to leave in South-East Asia and the Middle-East for two years. I trained as a scuba instructor so I could support myself. No-one there called me a fraud and I'm hoping my readers won't either. I loved every day of it of course.

Now I'm getting to write another part of the book which has to do with a long sailing journey across the oceans. What do you think I'm going to do? Why would anyone automatically assume that I'm happy with just asking questions on the Internet? What makes these people think that I haven't yet started taking lessons at our local club? Is it lack of imagination, snobbery or arrogance that dominates their thinking pattern? How about we all stopped making assumptions and just got on instead?

The truth is that sailing is a much bigger subject than Scuba, although there probably would be some proud diver to disagree. One instructor, as good as they may be, will not hold all the answers. As Jeff has already pointed out, anyone's answer will only reflect their personality. Even if I wanted to spend another two years writing the book, it wouldn't be enough to give me the combined knowledge that all of you hold. A lifetime wouldn't be enough. So I have to ask, even if it means becoming the recipient of other people's negative, unimaginative projections and uncourteous manners. I don't care. What I'm doing matters too much and anyway and there are so many very good people to make up for the others.
Hi Dee,

I have to applaud your efforts to research your subject so you can write a book that doesn't make the informed roll their eyes and moan. Since you got into diving you may share one of my pet peeves. I can't count the number of times I have read books or even articles in somewhat technical publications that refer to SCUBA divers and their "oxygen" tanks. Of course no one is using oxygen except technical divers who may use it for deco stops at 20' or so.

In defense of the members of the forum, there have been so many threads (maybe average a few a week) about the best boat, the bluewater boat, the safest boat, the ...., well you get the point. So it is easy to do a quick scan of the subject and vent some frustration. However, if you have been doing this writing gig for long and submitted anything to a publisher (or more likely a long list of many publishers) then I'm certain you are not that easily discouraged. If you are, better change careers fast.

Regarding sailing being a bigger subject than diving I have two comments. First someone said on the forum (and I paraphrase) that sailing is something you can learn in a day but take a lifetime to master. On the other hand, depending on how you want to get into diving it can be a very deep subject as well.

Good luck and ask some more questions. One suggestion, the more specific and targeted the question the more detailed answer you'll get back.
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Old 18-08-2013, 13:14   #53
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Re: Choosing the Perfect Boat

Hiya Dee! You shouldn't have to prove anything to anyone. For those who are skeptic about your project, it's understandable but they should be kind and nice in showing it. I think that your project is fun, as I have never read any novels outside of what was required of me during my college years. I read a lot of technical papers that cover Engineering and Pharmacy, to stay up to date. A few years ago, I published an Electrical Engineering book on Circuit Analysis.

The bottom line is, keep doing what you like to do...and in the end you can say with a smile..."Your opinion of me has no cash value!"

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Old 18-08-2013, 13:20   #54
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Re: Choosing the Perfect Boat

G'Day Dee,

I'm not going to get into this general discussion about specific boats, but have an observation about your sort of research (which I heartily endorse, BTW).

No matter how much research you do, clangers can creep into any fiction that is based on some skill set or technology. As an avid reader (like most cruisers) I see them in print all too often, and they really bug me if the truth be known, especially in areas where I have some hard won expertise. These books have probably had at least some research done by the authors, they certainly were subjected to editing during the publication process and yet there those glaring errors were!

So, my thought is when you reach a suitable point in your efforts send the ms around to volunteer "critics" from any applicable fields for appraisal... not as a work of fiction, but merely to sift through for egregious errors. For the sailing parts, I bet that a plea on CF would garner some serious responses. If I were in a location where delivery was feasible, I'd hold up my hand, and likely enjoy the experience.

So, good luck in your writing (and then selling!) of the book.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 18-08-2013, 15:09   #55
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Re: Choosing the Perfect Boat

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So, my thought is when you reach a suitable point in your efforts send the ms around to volunteer "critics" from any applicable fields for appraisal... not as a work of fiction, but merely to sift through for egregious errors.
Yes, that's always the plan with everything I write. I have taken note of your offer and you can bet that the will be part of a manuscript coming your way at some point.

Thanks Jim and all of those who have offered writing/plotting/editing/publishing advice. I appreciate your concern and the help you're willing to offer.

Now if we could get back to the topic of this thread? In exchange I promise never to tell you how to sail your boats.
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Old 18-08-2013, 15:22   #56
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Re: Choosing the Perfect Boat

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Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
Have you considered just picking a reasonably representative world class cruiser, finding the layout online and just going for it? As you said, the sail itself is only part of the story.
The answers I am getting on this thread are pointing me in several directions, which helps me learn more about what I need to know. In other words, it's telling me where I should start looking. Then the research job begins.
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Old 18-08-2013, 15:24   #57
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Re: Choosing the Perfect Boat

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Hiya Dee! You shouldn't have to prove anything to anyone. For those who are skeptic about your project, it's understandable but they should be kind and nice in showing it. I think that your project is fun, as I have never read any novels outside of what was required of me during my college years. I read a lot of technical papers that cover Engineering and Pharmacy, to stay up to date. A few years ago, I published an Electrical Engineering book on Circuit Analysis.

The bottom line is, keep doing what you like to do...and in the end you can say with a smile..."Your opinion of me has no cash value!"

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Old 18-08-2013, 15:25   #58
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Re: Choosing the Perfect Boat

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Yes, that's always the plan with everything I write. I have taken note of your offer and you can bet that the will be part of a manuscript coming your way at some point.

Thanks Jim and all of those who have offered writing/plotting/editing/publishing advice. I appreciate your concern and the help you're willing to offer.

Now if we could get back to the topic of this thread? In exchange I promise never to tell you how to sail your boats.
At the risk of avoiding getting back on track , I don't see the problem with writers (and Movies) having "errors" in them, as long as it helps the story along - whilst for the anal it might be nice to read some technical words, for the average reader it not only does not matter it can actually detract from the story (see Robert Redford calling an SOS on the radio rather than a Mayday - saves non boaty folks wasting time wondering WTF he is doing, or the author having to explain it)..............it's entertainment not a hands on "how to guide", and some suspension of disbelief is part of the deal............and the stories all the better for that.........

.....just ask Tristan Jones ...........note to DeeB, reading one of his books likely no bad thing to get a feel for the sort of stuff that can happen on and with boats and going on extended voyages - believable enough to annoy some that not all of the events (or journeys!) were as literal (fact based ) as claimed. Been a while since I read one, but IIRC enough nautical / boat stuff in them to be believable - but without boring the reader rigid by sticking only to boat stuff ("day 27 - the same pretty much nothing happened again, except I learnt how to service a winch.....here is my 427 step guide on how I did it ".........besides lots of boat terms and even practices are not worldwide universal.

BTW if you can fit some goats into the story would be appreciated .
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Old 18-08-2013, 15:45   #59
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Re: Choosing the Perfect Boat

Hi Dee,

There are lists of boats that have circumnavigated, someone recently posted a list of boats that were west-coast US based but I'm sure there are other lists... boats that have participated in the ARC (rally/cruise/race across the Atlantic), the Baja HaHa, the Pacific Puddle Jump, etc... Maybe taking a look at some of these could be helpful to see what kinds/ sizes of boats are doing open ocean trips and what their crew size is. Many of those cruising folks also have blogs which you could read t get an idea of the specific locations they are cruising and challenges they have faced.

Good luck! TCG
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Old 18-08-2013, 15:54   #60
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pirate Re: Choosing the Perfect Boat

This thread made me smile... took me back quite a few years... met a couple who'd got their hands on a beat up old steel ketch in Marseilles and were refitting it in Gibraltar... the yards long gone now... so has much of bad old Gib...
He was a Ukrainian gypsy orphan and she was a French heroin addict trying to stay clean... they'd done a run down to the Gambia to raise the funds for the fit out and not got caught... nice couple... their aim was French Polynesia.. we were headed the other way into the Med so lost touch... no idea how far they got... or if she fell of the path..
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