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Old 30-09-2015, 13:14   #16
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Re: Choosing a Boat: A Lilí Help Please

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Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
Pretty much the era when Swan's rose to fame.
I sailed this flush decked beauty across the atlantic, from spain to antigua, via the canaries.

1972 Nautor's Swan 48 Cruiser / Racer Sail Boat For Sale -

I know the owner...make him an offer and he'll take it. Unless you mention my name, in which case the price will go up.
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Old 01-10-2015, 02:39   #17
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Re: Choosing a Boat: A Lilí Help Please

Uncivilized,

What about a Palmer Johnson Standfast 40? They were hell for stout. Flush deck. Not fast by today's standards, for sure. However, many have circumnavigated. One survived a strap break and fall to the concrete, then slide into the water in San Diego, and went on to circumnavigate after that--reportedly only gelcoat scratches from that incidend: "Sara", I believe she was called, and we met her years ago.

Not too many places for surf boards on it, though.

Ann
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Old 01-10-2015, 06:09   #18
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Re: Choosing a Boat: A Lilí Help Please

I've got absolutely no issues with a well secured dink on the bow. I managed to cope with a decent 8 foot dink like a dyer dhow on the bow of the 33 foot Snowpetrel1 through some rather unpleasant weather.

A big plus with all these masthead early IORish designs is a big J, so long poles, and big headsails and a big clean foredeck for a big dinghy and kayaks to stow on.

I once delivered a S&S34 across the Tasman from Nelson to Eden one winter with an eight foot dinghy lashed forward of the mast and a staysail/stormjib that was easily set above the dinghy so I dont see the staysail as a big issue either, you just have to set it a touch higher.

Infact I think a dinghy forward might even be better than elsewhere, its lower than on the cabin top, and in anything real nasty I plan on normally having a drogue out the stern so the bows going to get the least punishment. In all honesty I'm unlikely to still be punching to windward in a real dangerous blow, and if I'm shipping that much water over the foredeck, or my securing a dinghy skills are that deficient I probably deserve anything I get.

I carried 4 slippery plastic kayaks on the foredeck of the yacht I skippered, sailing backwards and forwards across the drake passage 5 times. One trip home we ended up with a bit of a blow as we got near the Horn, I had to keep punching because the next stop to leeward was South Georgia, and the forecast was for even more crap on the way, plus 6 guests with flights looming... And the Kayaks survived that pasting OK.

So I think the foredeck thing is a non issue if you can tie knots, and install a few decent lashing points and chocks on the deck.

Ive just also discovered how good a nice 8 foot dinghy can be .

So really for one or two people something like this is all you need, maybe with an extra inflatable and big outboard for when you want to go fast, or go far, that can be stowed below at sea or on light davits inshore.

Anyway on designs, I'm kind of partial to the mid to late 70's IOR boats, the two tonner, and one tonners take my fancy. Flighty at times, but great to windward and in the light. not so much fun downwind but fine if you aren't trying to do stupid stuff like surf down waves. My new ride is an aluminium petterson two tonner. They are dirt cheap to buy, because the racing guys dont like them (Dont surf!), and the cruisers are scared of anything with an IOR label. But like all things they have their issues. Old rod rigging, and triple spreader rigs are expensive to re rig, your earlier 70's S&S's tend to have single spreader tree trunks than are comparatively simple.

That Oday looks like a great boat for the price if it's structurally sound. And I liked Webb Chiles Heritage one Tonner. the Wiggers Peterson 37's look pretty good. The pintail IOR boats have less pounding under the stern than the later wide sterns, but its not an issue if there moving forwards.

Interested to hear what you find

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Old 01-10-2015, 06:20   #19
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Re: Choosing a Boat: A Lilí Help Please

This looks like a very good boat for your requirements. $24000 or so.

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Old 01-10-2015, 06:24   #20
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Re: Choosing a Boat: A Lilí Help Please

Oh, a bit of an issue with the earlier IOR designs is that they relied much more on very big overlapping headsails to move them in light airs. My late 70's boat has a SA/disp around 20 using 100% foretriangle, so even with a non overlapping jib she sails very well in the light. Its very nice not to have to wrestle with a big genoa if I dont want to.
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Old 01-10-2015, 14:33   #21
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Re: Choosing a Boat: A Lilí Help Please

G'Day Unciv,

Ann mentioned the Palmer Johnson Standfast 40 above, but didn't mention that we cruised in our first Insatiable which was a SF 36 for 17 years and 86,000 miles. That design meets many of your criteria; the 40 would be a bit roomier, a bit faster, and harder to find... not many made. IIRC there were 20 of the 36s built from the same mold, and more or less similar in execution. The interiors were traditional layout with settees and pilot berths, and were done with seagoing functionality in mind. PJ had the hulls built by Peterson Buillders, a primarily military vessel contractor, and they were tank-like in structure. We added the hard dodger in New Zealand, and it was a big improvement in comfort at sea.

I don't have many digital photos of our boat, sold in 2004, but below is a kinda poor one showing the general shape, sailing down the Clarence river in New South Wales.

She was grossly overloaded (how on earth did that happen??) but was still quick by cruising standards, and was fun to sail. Weathered some pretty stiff weather, too.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 01-10-2015, 14:56   #22
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Re: Choosing a Boat: A Lilí Help Please

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Originally Posted by hamburking View Post
I sailed this flush decked beauty across the atlantic, from spain to antigua, via the canaries.

1972 Nautor's Swan 48 Cruiser / Racer Sail Boat For Sale -

I know the owner...make him an offer and he'll take it. Unless you mention my name, in which case the price will go up.
Apologies for the thread drift.

Here is the helm from that swan 48. Could someone explain why there are three wheels? I understand some boats have a trimtab. Maybe the small wheel is a friction lock??

Steve

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Old 01-10-2015, 15:29   #23
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Re: Choosing a Boat: A Lilí Help Please

Those Erickson 37's steady hand posted look like a cheap way to see the world.

Neat to see a picture of Insatiable 1 Jim, she looked very simple, stout and fast. Nice work on the auxiliary rudder self steering. Has to be a good way to tame the downwind manners of these IOR designs.

Mind you my pretty extreme Peterson steered herself under motor with the wheel locked for a few hours the other day. I had to tweak the course every so often... But they are nowhere near as bad as some would have you believe.

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Old 01-10-2015, 16:48   #24
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Re: Choosing a Boat: A Lilí Help Please

Howdy Folks!

Today I came across a boat that caught my eye. I have posted a profile of the boat (photos, specs, video, observations) in this thread: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds - Page 7 - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

I bring it up here, because I remembered that Uncivilized is looking for a flush deck boat. The one I profiled is not exactly a flush deck, but close. And, it looks very nice for the price. Check it out.

It is a Nelson/Marek 41.
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Old 01-10-2015, 16:50   #25
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Re: Choosing a Boat: A Lilí Help Please

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Apologies for the thread drift.

Here is the helm from that swan 48. Could someone explain why there are three wheels? I understand some boats have a trimtab. Maybe the small wheel is a friction lock??

Steve

Goldilocks Principle: One for each size. One for the big helmsman, one for the medium helmsman, and one for the smaller helmsman (or helmsperson).

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Old 01-10-2015, 18:28   #26
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Re: Choosing a Boat: A Lilí Help Please

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Howdy Folks!

Today I came across a boat that caught my eye. I have posted a profile of the boat (photos, specs, video, observations) in this thread: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds - Page 7 - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

I bring it up here, because I remembered that Uncivilized is looking for a flush deck boat. The one I profiled is not exactly a flush deck, but close. And, it looks very nice for the price. Check it out.

It is a Nelson/Marek 41.
*excited squeaking* unfortunately I don't think I'd be allowed an American yacht as well as my Tassie one... A good thing about this era of IOR boats is the very high ballast ratio, around 45-50%. Couples with the beam they are very very stiff. Mine just doesn't need to be driven hard to windward, she's seems to be fast enough with about a 15 degree heel angle.

Look up the serendipity 43 wings, to see how a similar design can go. Just be aware I haven't yet sailed far on mine, only 800 or so miles offshore, and they are by no means perfect for all.

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Old 01-10-2015, 18:31   #27
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Re: Choosing a Boat: A Lilí Help Please

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Apologies for the thread drift.

Here is the helm from that swan 48. Could someone explain why there are three wheels? I understand some boats have a trimtab. Maybe the small wheel is a friction lock??

Steve

My two year old would love that little wheel, maybe I'll add one to SNP 2 so he can play and I can still steer!

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Old 01-10-2015, 18:32   #28
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Re: Choosing a Boat: A Lilí Help Please

Oops Double post.. wrong button push on this horrid phone. Sorry.
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Old 01-10-2015, 23:34   #29
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Re: Choosing a Boat: A Lilí Help Please

Yachtcowboy, you mention the sloop and cutter--from your experience with the Pearsons, or from other people's experience with other boats, what do you think of ketches? Seems there are many advantages of a ketch, but I've never owned one. Just sailed them.What do you think?
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Old 02-10-2015, 02:03   #30
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Re: Choosing a Boat: A Lilí Help Please

Guys, thanks for all of the AMAZING tips & links! Not to mention advice.

As to the Swan 48, I'd LUV to have one, but for; the cost of upkeep, the need for a crew of 3+ minimum, & the loads on everything. They're amazing to sail, especially in a blow. Helming one in 20kts, going uphill is like being on a well bred & trained horse.

I raced for a season on a 48', early in my pro career, & had a GRAND time. Well, except that the spinnaker pole, mast end lock was prone to failing, & it would come flying down & nail me on the top of the head. Knocking me right onto my backside. To which, the skipper would comment LOUDLY (as I was seeing stars, & small cartoon birds circling my head) to get the f**k up & FIX THE POLE. Never once inquiring as to my well being. LOL.

But... with said boat, we came in 2nd overall, in the prestigious Swan Cup, in Newport, RI. And our prize was 2 cases of incredibly good Chianti. Stuff which went for $25/bottle in 1987!
So, with a dozen crew, we each got 2 bottles. A nice prize @ 19!

Snowpetrel, thanks for the dinghy "thinks". It mirrors/confirms my modality of thought. Because if it's stowed in front of the mast, then you still have good visibility from the dodger/cockpit.
What's the design of that sweet looking lil' 8'er? I like it.

BTW, it seems like a Large percentage of the members on here have no qualms about carrying their RIB's on the foredeck. Heavily lashed in place, & at most, semi-inflated. So why should hard dinks be any different.

And for anyone who's unsure how to secure a dink in chocks like that, properly. You want to use Trucker's Hitches on the lines on each end, over the 2 respective chocks. And then tighten them even further, by putting a line connecting those two together, running lines fore & aft, on each side of the dink, using the same knot/rope-work setup.
***Brion Toss has a good description, with pics in his book. A tome, which is Definitely worth owning, even by very seasoned sailors.

Snowpetrel, I've been looking for 2-tonners & similar, especially in aluminum, at reasonable prices, for quite a while. However, I must be looking in the wrong places, as I've run across few in the sub $70k range. Aside from one in Hawaii.
So if anyone knows of some good aluminum cruisers or racers, which fit my (above) criteria, and that have true bilge sumps, @ $60k & under (preferably a good bit less, SIC), then I'm all ears.

Also, any that are made out of stout composites are a good choice too, they just need to have good SADR's. Although to some degree, if they have slippery hull forms, boats which are a touch voluptous can be coaxed to perform in light air by adding sprits, & or Code 0's. Albeit at a price... these sails ain't cheap. But I can DIY a custom (deck mounted) carbon sprit in a weekend, or a week of Midnight Oil sessions.

Ah, Jim, bravo BTW, on the hard dodger. They're nigh on a necessity in my book. So long as one uses good glazing, & remembers to make a few of said see through panels either removable, or better, opening. Like by using a couple of Lewmar deck hatches for windshield panels.

Gotta' grab some shuteye now guys. Everyone have a good weekend!
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