China Sail Factory Beware

[Sailorbob8599]

Sorry people, I have no pity for anyone buying sails from China, Hong Kong, or any other far flung country when there are competent & ethical sailmakers available locally to provide your every need. So what if they are a bit more expensive? . . . they are your countrymen & maybe even your neighbours. Isn't this what the POTUS has been harping on about for a couple of years now? Buy local if you want good service. If there is a problem, you simply go talk to them & in most instances I'll guarantee they will resolve your problem.

I bought my 'cruising sails' from Leitch and McBride, Custom Sailmakers of North Vancouver B.C. built by Brett Willis, Sailmaker par excellence. Brett came to my boat to measure both the boat & spars for proper fit. The sails were made in the sail loft in North Vancouver, of top quality sail cloth product & you are welcome to wander in to view their loft. I found them most accommodating people to deal with & very quick to resolve a problem. Just Google their name & you can contact them direct. If you choose to go overseas, don't bitch & complain when things go south.

As for the "sailmaker" who orders from China Sails, well let's face it, he is now just a 'middle man' you don't need in the purchase of your sails. You can simply order them yourself & save his fee for doing the same thing.

Even though I am not a businessman myself, my mantra is: Support your neighbour & "BUY LOCAL". You'll be glad you did . . . I was.

[Le Freak]

Originally Posted by R. Broomhall

To Anyone considering purchasing sails from China Sail Factory - beware!

I'm a long term sailmaker in Australia (Gippsland Victoria) and for a while I have been having some of my larger sails made offshore in Sri Lanka and more recently in China.
I was trying China Sail Factory and whilst the quality was OK the last sail was nothing like the sail I ordered it was 18' too long on the foot and more than 2' too tall, the reef points were all wrong (clearly they sent the wrong sail!). Whilst they offered to replace the sail it never happened and for the last 4-5 months I can't get either of the directors I spoke to to answer an email (Tim Keogh and Matthew Rattsey).
I have recently heard a rumour that they are now in receivership (gone broke), in my view this should be a blessed relief to the whole world.
Do not send them any money.

I've purchased sails from Lee Sails in Hong Kong They have always been of reputable, quality and reasonably priced. I recall years ago that I ordered an MPS but wouldn't deliver to the US since they had a dealer there and the price difference was enormous.

Finally I placed the order and shipping to Bonaire where my boat was at the time Tax free of course (in transit)

It arrived at agreed date and though a bit concerned all was exactly what I expected. Great service and quality

[Kestrahl]

Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599

As for the "sailmaker" who orders from China Sails, well let's face it, he is now just a 'middle man' you don't need in the purchase of your sails. You can simply order them yourself & save his fee for doing the same thing.

Even though I am not a businessman myself, my mantra is: Support your neighbour & "BUY LOCAL". You'll be glad you did . . . I was.

Just to clarify how China Sail and other OEM manufacturers work. The ordering sailmaker designs and and provides all the manufacturing information. He also chooses or supplies the fabric he would like. The sail is then made to his specifications and will be very much like a sail he would make himself. Sailmakers often outsource to supplement their own manufacturing.

It is a misconception that you can simply buy the sail directly yourself. This misconception is also promoted by smaller Chinese companies trying to sell directly out of Asia like Far East sails.

If you have a good local sailmaker who can offer good service at a reasonable price then that is always the preferred option. But these are becoming rarer as time goes on.

[Seman]

I had ordered a new Main & Genoa from Rolly Tasker in Thailand whilst in Phuket. The Genoa was the wrong size, they measured it! The tipple stitching on the Main was intermittent. Up to 4 feet of black cotton stitching missing on white Dracon. They must have been blind! Both sails lasted about 5 years.

[amkaplan]

A friend ordered another sail from Quantum and discovered the hard way that they’d switched from China to Sri Lanka for their manufacturing. The staysail was a mess, but at least the rep said he’d replace it.

Allan

[Kestrahl]

Originally Posted by amkaplan

A friend ordered another sail from Quantum and discovered the hard way that they’d switched from China to Sri Lanka for their manufacturing. The staysail was a mess, but at least the rep said he’d replace it.

Allan

Quantum used to have most of their manufacturing done in South Africa, but that company switched alliances to Ullmen, so Quantum brought a factory in Sri-Lanka from Dimension Polyant in 2013.

[amkaplan]

Originally Posted by Kestrahl

Quantum used to have most of their manufacturing done in South Africa, but that company switched alliances to Ullmen, so Quantum brought a factory in Sri-Lanka from Dimension Polyant in 2013.

Ah, so it was South Africa and not China? How exotic!

Allan

[Dan GB]

Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599

Sorry people, I have no pity for anyone buying sails from China, Hong Kong, or any other far flung country when there are competent & ethical sailmakers available locally to provide your every need. So what if they are a bit more expensive? . . . they are your countrymen & maybe even your neighbours. Isn't this what the POTUS has been harping on about for a couple of years now? Buy local if you want good service. If there is a problem, you simply go talk to them & in most instances I'll guarantee they will resolve your problem.

I bought my 'cruising sails' from Leitch and McBride, Custom Sailmakers of North Vancouver B.C. built by Brett Willis, Sailmaker par excellence. Brett came to my boat to measure both the boat & spars for proper fit. The sails were made in the sail loft in North Vancouver, of top quality sail cloth product & you are welcome to wander in to view their loft. I found them most accommodating people to deal with & very quick to resolve a problem. Just Google their name & you can contact them direct. If you choose to go overseas, don't bitch & complain when things go south.

As for the "sailmaker" who orders from China Sails, well let's face it, he is now just a 'middle man' you don't need in the purchase of your sails. You can simply order them yourself & save his fee for doing the same thing.

Even though I am not a businessman myself, my mantra is: Support your neighbour & "BUY LOCAL". You'll be glad you did . . . I was.

I am all into buying locally and supporting local businesses. But isn't the point that, increasingly, even reputable sail makers are sourcing from the Far East? In fact, I would hazard a guess, _have to_ in order to stay competitive? In which case in the ideal world the customer also shares in the benefit.

At least when it doesn't go wrong. And when it does a competent and ethical sail makers will stand by his product and sort it.

[Suijin]

What you pay for going local is an experienced sailmaker who is going to come out to your boat, take measurements, ask questions about how you rig and sail your boat and what you did and did not like about your last sail, design a solution, and fix issues after it is delivered. As has been said, I don’t care where the thing is made if it fits, is well crafted, and is generally competitive.

A few years ago I was on a friend’s boat when the sail rep showed up to fit the fit a new main. Took the boat out, flew the sail, checked it out. The sail rep turned out to be Larry Leonard of all people. We took him at his word that he thought the sail was cut well lol.

He was working at North at the time and I asked him who made the best sails. He replied that he thought all the established sailmakers made comparable sails but that North quality was the most consistent. I got the impression he was not just saying that because he worked for North.

I bought a storm jib at the boat show yesterday. Went to Ullman and they quoted me $1,600, which I knew was absurd. Ten feet away and five minutes later I bought the jib from North Sails for $400, including tax and shipping. Who knew they would be 1/4 the price.

I would go with a sailmaker with a good reputation and not care where the sail is made, or by who. Saving a few hundred bucks and then being unhappy with the result for the next 5-10 years is not worth it.

[Dan GB]

Originally Posted by Suijin

What you pay for going local is an experienced sailmaker who is going to come out to your boat, take measurements, ask questions about how you rig and sail your boat and what you did and did not like about your last sail, design a solution, and fix issues after it is delivered. As has been said, I don’t care where the thing is made if it fits, is well crafted, and is generally competitive.

A few years ago I was on a friend’s boat when the sail rep showed up to fit the fit a new main. Took the boat out, flew the sail, checked it out. The sail rep turned out to be Larry Leonard of all people. We took him at his word that he thought the sail was cut well lol.

He was working at North at the time and I asked him who made the best sails. He replied that he thought all the established sailmakers made comparable sails but that North quality was the most consistent. I got the impression he was not just saying that because he worked for North.

I bought a storm jib at the boat show yesterday. Went to Ullman and they quoted me $1,600, which I knew was absurd. Ten feet away and five minutes later I bought the jib from North Sails for $400, including tax and shipping. Who knew they would be 1/4 the price.

I would go with a sailmaker with a good reputation and not care where the sail is made, or by who. Saving a few hundred bucks and then being unhappy with the result for the next 5-10 years is not worth it.

This!

[fritzthecat]

I ordered for 3 boats different sails from llong sails, lee sails, hong kong, excellent value, good workmanship, fine quality....

[Le Freak]

Originally Posted by fritzthecat

I ordered for 3 boats different sails from llong sails, lee sails, hong kong, excellent value, good workmanship, fine quality....

You meant Cheong Lee, like I mentioned before Great service, pricing and superb quality. I don't know now, they had a dealer in the US and respected his contract. Prices were substantially higher than importing yourself.
Cheers, Hillar

[bullsails]

Sailmaker in Oz, similar to RBroomhall, we make what we can inhouse and outsource larger sails for 40+'. We use Durtek and Aquadynamicas and are very transparent in this.
Very much agree with Kestrahl's comments, we as sailmakers are very much part of the sails process.
Not just a re brander of existing sails as companies like Far East would have you believe!

PS we have to make right FE sails on a regular basis both on short term basis, sizing, attachments etc and long term engineering issues.

[Icarus]

Over the past 25 years or so I had all my sails made by Lee Sails in Honk Kong, never had any problems, cost was halve to Austrain made sails, maybe that changed now its been a while since I got my last sail from overseas.
Can't see why people complain about where the goods are made, just about everything is made in low wage paying countries these days.

[CaptFigmo]

Chinese sewing microchips into sails so they can spy on you.