China Sail Factory Beware

[Sailorman Ed]

So who are the good shops in the Philippines and in Sri Lanka? Contact info?

[AiniA]

Originally Posted by dakno

My North Sail mainsail purchased 2017 was delivered to me in Florida from Sri Lanka. It was a bit of a surprise but a great sail at a good price...surprised and happy.

I bought a genoa and asymmetric from North and they were made in Sri Lanka. Quality was just fine.

[NakedCity]

North Sails are not just farmed out to some misc. sailmaker in Sir Lanka . The manufacturing facility is actually built , managed, and owned by North Sails.

[Dougtiff]

I'll second Far East sail makers [Hong Kong sail makers], been using them for many year,s, for myself and customer's, they use Challenge cloth, UV thread and stainless hardware, they were initially recommended by Graham Barnes of B and B yacht design, who has been using them for year's.

[sailorboy1]

I don’t care where a sail was made. All I Care it that it fits, performs as expected, and lasts.

Unfortunately that’s hard to figure out.

[thruska]

Originally Posted by Toccata

Russell Broomhall is my sailmaker.
Great bloke, excellent sailmaker (he has made at least 10 sails of all types materials and uses for me).
Thread wander, but relevant, stay with me here....
Next time you're at the dentist, ask where they are sending your laboratory work (the work done to fabricate a prosthetic outside the mouth) you may be surprised to learn that a large portion of it is being done in Asia.
We all want the most for the least, in all walks of life, so do you blame the sailmakers for searching for lower cost suppliers to deliver what is expected of them by customers? WE have forced them into that corner.
There soon won't be any dental technicians doing intricate laboratory work in Aus, price competition will drive this work off shore. Do the Asian technicians pay tax in Aus, support other Australian businesses, I think not.
Consumers will end up with the commercial world they are prepared to pay for.
Is this just an Australian problem? I suspect not.

I think we will agrree to disagree.
First off sir , i know no sailmakers whom be dentists.
No one got forced into a corner by a gun to their head ! Greed can also be a big motivation. But we will be hard pressed to see any sailmaker or dentist open his books for scrutiny.
So do we have sailmakers or sail brokers ?
That is the question.
China merchandise full of lead or bad copies of stolen patents , for the greatest part !
You get what you pay for. Sheisters dont stay in business for obvious reasons.

[Toccata]

I don't think we have a disagreement
If only we could be sure we are getting that we thought we had paid for. Quality of sailcloth used for example and can a non sailmaker analyse that?
Another poster said what "pisses him off "is the full price paid for work that was done at lower cost rates (Offshore rates)
The dental analaogy is to demonstrate that the problem is not limited to sailmakers.
As a patient or as a sailmaker client, do you reckon we should be asking where the base products are being made? Does it matter? Commercial reality perhaps.
Just what's happening in the world at the moment, and unlikely to change I suspect.

[gmakhs]

A sailmaker who orders the sails offshore should be called a sail dealer since it's not the one manufacturing the sails , about the dentist I have no idea .
The problem with China sails is that the sailmaker can't really control the quality of the work or the material so if something arrives wrong , they can try to repair or modify the sail , but a modified sail is not a new sail .
When I ordered my mainsail I put my trust in elvstrom I gave them specific instructions on how I want my sail to be done , I didn't try to lower the price , they did order in China and the result was a bad sail (not the material.but the design ) .
They offered to modify it with no luck , and I ended up spending 2 months in beautifull Majorca with no mainsail , and heading to canaries with my emergency mainsail ( which is nice but 1.5 meter shorter .)
When I asked for a refund of my deposit , they declined it and I had to open a small claims.court case which resulted of me getting the money back after 4 months .
Once everything settled I ordered a sail from china and to be precise I used Alibaba application , after long chatting with then , they shipped my new sail did it arrived well ???? NO it didn't but it was easy to bring it to my standards , and the price was the 1/3 of elvstrom .
Finally what I am trying to say is that when I order and pay a sailmaker I am.paying for his work and brand not , to for him to order something that I can order myself.

After all this adventure my decision is to just order from.the cheapest source (china or local ) .

P.s) if I had order a standard sail for.my boat I believe everything would have been better , since china factories seem to make nice standard designs .

[thruska]

Originally Posted by Toccata

I don't think we have a disagreement
If only we could be sure we are getting that we thought we had paid for. Quality of sailcloth used for example and can a non sailmaker analyse that?
Another poster said what "pisses him off "is the full price paid for work that was done at lower cost rates (Offshore rates)
The dental analaogy is to demonstrate that the problem is not limited to sailmakers.
As a patient or as a sailmaker client, do you reckon we should be asking where the base products are being made? Does it matter? Commercial reality perhaps.
Just what's happening in the world at the moment, and unlikely to change I suspect.

Yeah I reckon you should and I reckon it matters !
In USA the new tariffs on Chinese “products “ levels that playing field somewhat, but its global buyers and USA buyers. You talk of price and I define that as potential greed on the part of buyers and sellers. Ethics is out the window, just another crapshoot....

[R. Broomhall]

Originally Posted by gmakhs

A sailmaker who orders the sails offshore should be called a sail dealer since it's not the one manufacturing the sails , about the dentist I have no idea .
The problem with China sails is that the sailmaker can't really control the quality of the work or the material so if something arrives wrong , they can try to repair or modify the sail , but a modified sail is not a new sail .
When I ordered my mainsail I put my trust in elvstrom I gave them specific instructions on how I want my sail to be done , I didn't try to lower the price , they did order in China and the result was a bad sail (not the material.but the design ) .
They offered to modify it with no luck , and I ended up spending 2 months in beautifull Majorca with no mainsail , and heading to canaries with my emergency mainsail ( which is nice but 1.5 meter shorter .)
When I asked for a refund of my deposit , they declined it and I had to open a small claims.court case which resulted of me getting the money back after 4 months .
Once everything settled I ordered a sail from china and to be precise I used Alibaba application , after long chatting with then , they shipped my new sail did it arrived well ???? NO it didn't but it was easy to bring it to my standards , and the price was the 1/3 of elvstrom .
Finally what I am trying to say is that when I order and pay a sailmaker I am.paying for his work and brand not , to for him to order something that I can order myself.

After all this adventure my decision is to just order from.the cheapest source (china or local ) .

P.s) if I had order a standard sail for.my boat I believe everything would have been better , since china factories seem to make nice standard designs .

Hi
Unfortunately in Australia our government have removed all tariffs this makes local manufacturing very difficult. Whilst I still make many sails in my loft, for bigger sails (you need bigger equipment and space) I have been having some made offshore.
Fortunately China Sail Factory are no longer in business and the purpose of my post was to warn anyone considering this option to think again.
Elvstrom should have stood by their product or replaced it. This is what happened to me and I made a new sail for the customer (so all good now)

[thruska]

Originally Posted by R. Broomhall

Hi
Unfortunately in Australia our government have removed all tariffs this makes local manufacturing very difficult. Whilst I still make many sails in my loft, for bigger sails (you need bigger equipment and space) I have been having some made offshore.
Fortunately China Sail Factory are no longer in business and the purpose of my post was to warn anyone considering this option to think again.
Elvstrom should have stood by their product or replaced it. This is what happened to me and I made a new sail for the customer (so all good now)

Thats all very interesting. Did you make the new sail out of the old ? Or new “different “ material ?
Ist good that you took on the redeeming factors, but there’s missing links no ?

[R. Broomhall]

Originally Posted by thruska

Thats all very interesting. Did you make the new sail out of the old ? Or new “different “ material ?
Ist good that you took on the redeeming factors, but there’s missing links no ?

The material was fine, the workmanship was fine but the sizes were nothing like what I specified.
Because I couldn't get China Sail Factory to stand by their product I started again and made a new sail from scratch. For me it was important to hold faith with the customer. The irony is, the customer didn't know any of this as he only comes here once a year to sail his boat and he has never seen the sail yet.
But I know when he does come it will all be perfect for him.

[thruska]

Originally Posted by R. Broomhall

The material was fine, the workmanship was fine but the sizes were nothing like what I specified.
Because I couldn't get China Sail Factory to stand by their product I started again and made a new sail from scratch. For me it was important to hold faith with the customer. The irony is, the customer didn't know any of this as he only comes here once a year to sail his boat and he has never seen the sail yet.
But I know when he does come it will all be perfect for him.

You Sir are a shining star in a dark rainy night !
I commend you. It sounds like you had to bite the bullet . You have integrity , something which has become very precious in today’s market.
Hats off !

[Jim Cate]

Hats off, and hope that you can someday find a customer for the now surplus sail. Bummer when you not only loose profit, but have out of pocket losses making good on your promised delivery. good onya, mate!

Jim

[Kestrahl]

Originally Posted by BambooSailor

I do not mind/care where my sail is made. What pisses me off is when dealer charges 600% profit. For example, I ordered a spinnaker, was charged $3400 after sailboat discounts. Sail was made in Philippines, shipped directly to me and came with an invoice (probably by mistake), $560.

Quite often a low value invoice is sent with the goods in case there are unexpected duties and taxes. Its illegal but common practice. Its unlikely a $3400 spinnaker would have cost $560. All commercial goods shipped internationally have to be sent with a invoice.