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Old 04-11-2007, 12:41   #16
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Yeah, it's a shame things are like this these days. I guess I'm old fashioned
.
I think there were these same people in the same percentages throughout history now that I get older.

I do still take people at their word though...............and get screwed all the time.
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Old 04-11-2007, 14:15   #17
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"attitude is a good thing" attitude

Sean,

With identical equipment it's understandable that it may raise a question in their minds about whether the equipment was moved off the boat. But after their previous dealings with you and your offers to do all of that other stuff above and beyond the sale, they should have given you the benefit of the doubt. No doubt their concerns would been more favorably received by you if they'd simply asked the question in a non-confrontational way ("hey, can you please confirm for me whether the batteries, etc are part of the sale?")

Unfortunately we've all been brainwashed into the thinking that confrontation is a good approach. It seems like about 15 years ago the idea the anything "with attitude!" was a good thing. Too bad.

Anyway, I've always found that continuing to be pleasant and nice even after being faced with this sort of ugly behavior is the best approach. It shows them that you really are a cut above and maybe models what they should do. Besides, it's easier to sleep at night.

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Old 04-11-2007, 15:27   #18
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Woowww up the horses there neddy. This is very one sided and dangerouse comments. Sean, you sure what you are saying is actual and not just percieved. Did they actually acuse you of stealing, or did they simply voice concern that the item lists were the same and they wanted to make sure you hadn't swaped the inventory over. I could understand their concern when the first time they will get to see the boat next, will be after a long journey to another country. If I was the one buying the boat, I would probably be a little concerned as well and I think we know each other a little better than you and the buyers do. I certainly would not be acusing you of stealing. I would simply be slightly confused and concerned that maybe we have not been clear on the sale.
I had a similar thing happen when we bought our boat. I thought the inflatable came with the boat. It was on the boat. But was removed after we had signed the deal. OK, it wasn't listed, but then, neither was a lot of the little bits and pieces. When we asked what was staying on the boat, we were told everything except the Alchol. I assumed the inflatable was part of it. I assumed wrong.
Sean, you know me well enough to know I aint taking a hit at you here. I just want to ensure the other party is not taking undue comments. Please just for a moment, stand back from the comments and yourself in this, and ask yourself, how would you repsond to this if you were Admin and was reading someone elses post.

Wheels,

I'm sure this isn't a moderator issue. The people are not members here, they are anonymous and it's just a boating story. I'm sure it doesn't need moderation. It's just a factual account of how some people suspected me of stealing items from a boat I sold to them just because I have the same items on my RV.

I mean if they dug in a little deeper and read more of my posts, they would see that 4 Trojans, 2 Iotas and a 5KW genset were a perfectly balanced electrical system for me. I went on about how great these items were at length on this forum and explianed somewhere that I liked them so much, I was going to get them again.

This might be a cultural issue, but where I'm from, if you suggest that someone stole something after a sale was made, it's an insult on your character that can't be forgiven. Especially with all the extra time and effort I put in for these people after the sale, which was only out of kindness.
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Old 04-11-2007, 17:32   #19
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It's always hard but important to separate the emotional aspect from the facts. This thread has a great learning about buying and selling a boat.

The advertisement is the advertisement -caveat emptor - although there are "bait and switch" laws so the advertised item should be pretty close to what is advertised. After that it is up to the buyer and the seller to execute an agreement, usually called a purchase agreement, detailing very specifically what is included and what is not included.

Any removable items that are not intended for inclusion should be off the boat when it is shown or you should be very specific that the item is not included.

In our purchase agreement we detailed everything that was not screwed down or part of the boat, and many things that were, and added the caveat that, "All items on-board during the sea trial and survey are specifically included with the with the exception of any small personal items such as sailing gloves, sunglases or other items that can not be construed as "boat equipment.""

We took about 100 photos during the survey and sea trial. Anything missing would have been obvious to us.

So long ramble aside - get a good purchase agreement and create an equipment list prior to nailing down the final price.

I don't know if Sean took stuff off the boat that was advertised but it is clear that the equipment was advertised. if the items are not on board, I would say the buyer has a decent gripe.

I wouldn't call anyone a thief over it.
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Old 04-11-2007, 17:47   #20
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In our purchase agreement we detailed everything that was not screwed down or part of the boat, and many things that were, and added the caveat that, "All items on-board during the sea trial and survey are specifically included with the with the exception of any small personal items such as sailing gloves, sunglases or other items that can not be construed as "boat equipment.""

We took about 100 photos during the survey and sea trial. Anything missing would have been obvious to us.


.
Great plan.
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Old 04-11-2007, 17:49   #21
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Hopefully, it will all work out in the end. I too am very old fashioned and I try to be a man of my word as well. If something comes up, I always try to call as quickly as possible to let the other person know of the changes. I still believe in "a man's word" is his bond. I would really hate for everyone who gets screwed to lose their self respect and honor.

As many times as I've heard of these crazy situations, I always have hope for people. just, though.. LOL
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Old 04-11-2007, 19:40   #22
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I mean if they dug in a little deeper and read more of my posts, they would see that 4 Trojans, 2 Iotas and a 5KW genset were a perfectly balanced electrical system for me. I went on about how great these items were at length on this forum and explianed somewhere that I liked them so much, I was going to get them again.
Since you have re-purchased these items, wouldn't it have been so EZ to just tell them that you had re-purchased the items! And that would have been the end of it, or should have. I don't get it, something is missing in the communica here.
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Old 04-11-2007, 20:03   #23
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Sean
Please clarify, did they come right out and accuse you of stealing? Or did they ask whether the items on your Rv came from the boat?

If I was spending big bucks on a boat, I'd ask too. Not in an accusing tone but in an inquisitive way.

As Ronnie Reagan used to say, 'Trust, but verify'.
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Old 04-11-2007, 22:01   #24
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I'm sure this isn't a moderator issue.
Nooo no no no, see there's that problem trying to understand my accent again :-) No what I meant was just pretend you are a moderator and stand back from the picture a little. Look at both sides of the pridicament and how the other party may have been mistaken and had the incorrect concern.
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This might be a cultural issue, but where I'm from, if you suggest that someone stole something after a sale was made, it's an insult on your character that can't be forgiven.
Yeah I watched the Old American Westerns :-) "Hey, you lookin at me kid?"
Here, it would probably be a little different. If it was me in your shoes, I would most likely have just laughed and said "no sillies, I was so wraped with the system, I bought a second system, hahahah! and that would have been that. But yep, I guess my culture is a little different. As we say, "only in America, that God". :-)
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Old 05-11-2007, 00:49   #25
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Congrats Shaun - you have sold the boat!! - Well done. It was news to me as I've just got back from another fantastic trip to the South Pacific.
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Old 05-11-2007, 02:14   #26
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All I want to know is if they bought the meat grinder??????
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Old 05-11-2007, 06:28   #27
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All I want to know is if they bought the meat grinder??????
Seafox - you're alright! ha ha ha
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Old 05-11-2007, 06:34   #28
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It's always hard but important to separate the emotional aspect from the facts. This thread has a great learning about buying and selling a boat.

The advertisement is the advertisement -caveat emptor - although there are "bait and switch" laws so the advertised item should be pretty close to what is advertised. After that it is up to the buyer and the seller to execute an agreement, usually called a purchase agreement, detailing very specifically what is included and what is not included.

Any removable items that are not intended for inclusion should be off the boat when it is shown or you should be very specific that the item is not included.

In our purchase agreement we detailed everything that was not screwed down or part of the boat, and many things that were, and added the caveat that, "All items on-board during the sea trial and survey are specifically included with the with the exception of any small personal items such as sailing gloves, sunglases or other items that can not be construed as "boat equipment.""

We took about 100 photos during the survey and sea trial. Anything missing would have been obvious to us.

So long ramble aside - get a good purchase agreement and create an equipment list prior to nailing down the final price.

I don't know if Sean took stuff off the boat that was advertised but it is clear that the equipment was advertised. if the items are not on board, I would say the buyer has a decent gripe.

I wouldn't call anyone a thief over it.
Yup... this is what we did. We had a standard YBAA (yacht broker's association of america) purchase and sale agreeement. There was even a broker hired on their end to complete the transaction.

I did all that extra stuff for them out of good will, then they surfed this site and jumped to conclusions.

I guess the moral of the story is... if someone is going to suggest a person is a theif after doing all of the extra work I did for them, I sure don't need to keep putting in extra hours on their behalf.
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Old 05-11-2007, 06:35   #29
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And in case it's not clear here:

Obviously everything on the inventory list is still on the boat. They jumped to conclusions.
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Old 05-11-2007, 06:56   #30
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Obviously everything on the inventory list is still on the boat.

These people suggested I STOLE these items off my old boat (which they haven't taken delivery of yet).
How would it be obvious to the buyers?
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