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Old 17-05-2015, 13:13   #1
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Charter Boats, don't you just love them?

Just taken a stroll to the end of my pier and 4 charter boats have come into the marina. Nothing unusual about that but it is 9pm local time and dark.

So 2 boats are showing the correct navigation lights. Well done to their skippers for knowing the regulations. 1 is showing his anchor light with his bow level navigation lights and the other is just showing his bow level lights.

Really?

Now in Croatia before you are allowed to take command of any vessel you have to show a certificate of competence. I have an RYA Day Skipper and my wife an RYA Yacht Master Coastal certificate. In both of these a fundamental part is the CollRegs and Lights and Symbols. Both qualify for the International Certificate of Competency so it begs the question "are the charter companies checking or are charter skippers actually competent?"

Has anyone else seen equally as daft a situation?

We often sit and watch what we call "Moorings TV" as the charter boats come in as there are some classic episodes. For example the helmsman who used his bow thrusters to steer in astern rather than turn his wheel (it was flat calm by the way) or the skipper who shouted instructions then proceeded to do everything himself while hitting the wall. Or the charter boat that ended up alongside all the anchors already on the quay (that took some doing believe me!).

Mind you I did see an example of how it should be done. A charter boat came in and as they approached the helm/skipper said in a calm voice "right let's go over this again, I'm going to come in stern to so Fred you are going to pick up the lazy line, Bill you will?" Bill replied " walk it to the bow and act as the brake as you reverse in." Skipper continued "we'll need the lee stern line on and the windward bow line so Sue make sure you pass the line to the dockman and make it fast, Tracy get ready with the other stern line and as soon as Sue is fastened throw the line and make it fast. OK everyone sure what they need to do?" A clear OK from the crew and the best stern to mooring I have seen in ages performed.

Charter boats love em or hate em you have to chuckle at them

Keiron
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Old 17-05-2015, 13:19   #2
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Re: Charter Boats, don't you just love them?

For the vessel with the "bow" light and "anchor" light that's proper navigation lights for vessel under power less than 12 meters( you may combine your steaming light and your stern light into 1 360 degree light) inland rules of the road number 23. Same for international. And there is no bow level, bow is the front of the boat
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Old 17-05-2015, 13:57   #3
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Re: Charter Boats, don't you just love them?

OK so deck level then.

And all these vessels had separate steaming lights from their anchor lights therefore should have been using their dedicated steaming lights and not their all around anchor lights.

A sailing vessel under sail may combine their lights into a tricolour mast head light but when under power the tricolour must be switched off and deck level navigation lights used. At this point, yes, she may combine her steaming and stern lights into a single all around white light but only if she does not have a dedicated stern light which all 4 of these vessel clearly had. I'm not 100% certain but I'm pretty sure they were over 40ft or 12m as well.
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Old 17-05-2015, 14:16   #4
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Re: Charter Boats, don't you just love them?

There's no definition for deck level light for navigation, its called side lights for your red and green which may be combined "on the bow" and the 360 degree light is in lieu of your steaming and stern light is not an anchor light
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Old 17-05-2015, 14:26   #5
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Re: Charter Boats, don't you just love them?

Let's agree to disagree on this as the Coll Regs I have show quite clearly that a power vessel over 12m has to have a separate stern and steaming light and states that if a vessel under power between 7 and 12m has separate steaming and stern lights it can not show a single all around white light.

Simple fact is of the 4 vessels, all identical that came in together 2 had the correct lights as fitted and 2 did not, all of them charter boats which raised the question do charter companies actually check the skippers are competent.
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Old 17-05-2015, 14:29   #6
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Re: Charter Boats, don't you just love them?

I think charter folks do pretty damn well. There they are for the most expensive vacation week of their life and they get aboard a totally unfamiliar boat and sent off by themselves. Often the boat is larger or very different to their own.
Always its in a totally different part of the world than they are used to.

They anchor in different types of seabed than normal.
The marinas are different set up.
The fuel docks are weird
The weather is strange
The locals speak some whacky language or English like a Hood Brother.


And you watch them and laugh???????




I would like to see you do better, all your paper tickets and all.


Mark
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Old 17-05-2015, 14:39   #7
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Re: Charter Boats, don't you just love them?

Mark, I agree many do cope extremely well and I take my hat off to them for doing so with an unusual vessel, conditions, language etc but simple basics like knowing which way to turn the wheel or which lights to turn on are not boat specific. As for anchoring it shouldn't matter if you are in your own boat in a bay you know well or in a foreign land you should still set your anchor properly not lob it over the side whilst going forward and as soon as it hits bottom say "that's good enough lets get a beer".

Oh and yes I have made a complete balls up of a stern to mooring before anyone asks but I did the right thing, went back out, sorted myself out then came back in and nailed it.

Keiron
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Old 17-05-2015, 15:11   #8
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Re: Charter Boats, don't you just love them?

Kas1611, were they mono's or cats - and are they from the company you called your TV show?
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Old 17-05-2015, 16:51   #9
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Re: Charter Boats, don't you just love them?

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Originally Posted by kas_1611 View Post
Let's agree to disagree on this as the Coll Regs I have show quite clearly that a power vessel over 12m has to have a separate stern and steaming light and states that if a vessel under power between 7 and 12m has separate steaming and stern lights it can not show a single all around white light.

Simple fact is of the 4 vessels, all identical that came in together 2 had the correct lights as fitted and 2 did not, all of them charter boats which raised the question do charter companies actually check the skippers are competent.
Well I just have to say you're not reading the full rules of the road ,at the very end it says vessels less than 12 meters may use a all round white light in lieu of a steaming and stern light. think about it ,small powerboats almost always have a white 360 degree light for the stern ,steaming light. but I understand that you can't have both a steaming, stern and 360 degree light but thats not what you described in your original post. The third vessel had the correct lights according to your description
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Old 17-05-2015, 17:20   #10
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Re: Charter Boats, don't you just love them?

A former colleague of mine had previously worked for the Canadian Yachting Association, but in an office job - no sailing experience. She and husband decided they wanted a captained charter somewhere down south; when they showed up the company saw her CYA employee ID and said "you're okay, you don't need our help" and let them leave with a 40' boat.

She was crazy enough to do it, and they didn't cause any damage to themselves or others, but it suggests that not all companies do serious verification.
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Old 17-05-2015, 18:23   #11
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Re: Charter Boats, don't you just love them?

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I would like to see you do better, all your paper tickets and all.


Mark
I understand what MarkJ talks about. I have sailed a couple dozen thousand miles (mostly working on other peopleīs boats) but happen to have my own little boat that has bareboat markings because it is chartered out when I do not use it.

I am TIRED of so called cruisers that judge others based on the bareboat markings on their boat. A few weeks ago I was at spreader level (after climbing singlehanded with ascenders) changing a damaged shroud with the mast up while at anchor and had to cope with two idiots (one a singlehanded "cruiser" and one a skipper of a "skipper only" crewed charter boat) yelling at me that I was anchored too close to them and I had to move right away, etc, when in fact I had snorkeled to check the anchor positions and scopes and new there was no problem.. I learned that many bareboaters sailing with their families may be inexperienced, but it is also true that many singlehanded cruisers and "skipper only" (as in no host/ess) crewed charter skippers in charter boats may not have long term company for a reason. Of course that is not the reason to paint every singlehander the same!
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Old 18-05-2015, 00:37   #12
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Re: Charter Boats, don't you just love them?

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Kas1611, were they mono's or cats - and are they from the company you called your TV show?
John,

No all were mono's from a completely different company but good thinking

Keiron
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Old 18-05-2015, 00:45   #13
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Re: Charter Boats, don't you just love them?

Living in the Bahamas, charter boats are a great source of our entertainment. I could write a book over what I have seen.
One of the best was after Bar B Qing and cocktails was watching them dump the hot coals into the inflatable dink!
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Old 18-05-2015, 01:05   #14
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Re: Charter Boats, don't you just love them?

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Originally Posted by kas_1611 View Post
John,

No all were mono's from a completely different company but good thinking

Keiron
Maybe the reason for the bowthruster use to moor stern to. Could be so much prop walk,especially if full keel that the easiest/best way is to steer with the bowthruster in reverse. On our boat the wheel is useless in reverse at less than 3-4kts. Only really learned to handle the boat when we lost a solenoid on the vetus. You must have one of those fin keeled spade rudder that's like driving a car.
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Old 18-05-2015, 04:22   #15
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Re: Charter Boats, don't you just love them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
I think charter folks do pretty damn well. There they are for the most expensive vacation week of their life and they get aboard a totally unfamiliar boat and sent off by themselves. Often the boat is larger or very different to their own.
Always its in a totally different part of the world than they are used to.

They anchor in different types of seabed than normal.
The marinas are different set up.
The fuel docks are weird
The weather is strange
The locals speak some whacky language or English like a Hood Brother.


And you watch them and laugh???????




I would like to see you do better, all your paper tickets and all.


Mark
What he said.

I'm with Mark on this one. Because my wife and I were "those people" for a few years. Both experienced sailors, but to gain NEW experiences on different boats in different parts of the world.... Well, we probably provided many a chuckle to others. But we learned. Nobody got hurt, nothing got damaged. And I won't even get into describing some of our docking comedy shows. But we learned.

And you know what? When I see a boat with "wrong" nav lights alight I just give them more space. For all I know it's possible that some of their lights have malfunctioned and they're doing as best as can under the circumstances. Anyway, at least they have SOME lights showing....

What was that expression? Something like "Ye without sin may cast the first stone"?

James




Note: And yes, I realize the irony of my statement about "doing as best as can" and the Churchill quote "Sometimes it is not enough that we do our best; we must do what is required." colregs et.al.
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