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Old 14-07-2009, 05:10   #1
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Charging for Berth Space in Wrong Way?

When I started sailing (35 years ago) you paid for marina berths by the metre. As multis gained in popularity people wanted to charge them extra, I could see the point to an extent - except when we were talking about an end tie, didn't see what the width mattered then.

But on reflection and after having to, by my governing authority fees, pay for the dredging of the marina, when I clearly couldn't give a rats if it silted up to only a metre deep I started to wonder we used to charge by the liner metre, we seemed to move to the square meter, realistically should we not charge by the cubic metre. If all boats drew 1 metre or less our dredging fees would be negligible for many many years.

So I should pay (or I would if I didn't own my berth) more for the square metre-age, but maybe an 11 metre mono with a 3 mete keel should pay more as well, cause I dont need his dredging.

So I am 10.8 m long - 6 m wide and 1 m deep for a cubic of 64
the 11 metre long 3 metre wide and 2.5 metre deep mono would be ~ 82
the 10 metre long 2.5 m wide and 1.5 m deep mono would be ~ 38

Sounds like a fairer system to me. Not to mention that dredging is one of the most environmentally unsound things we can do to our waterways.
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Old 14-07-2009, 05:22   #2
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I would go for charging by height.

Visual pollution see Multihulls are the most visually polluting things we can do to the waterways


But I don't own a marina.........if I did I wouldn't be basing my charges around "fair"
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Old 14-07-2009, 06:55   #3
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How about a sliding scale?

DOJ,
How about a sliding logarithmic scale for your marina, charge more if you fill up the dumpsters with garbage and use the pump outs more than once a week and if you just plain don't like someone. Of course it would be less for boats that buy you beer and keep scantily clad ladies in attendance on a regular basis. More for those whom play music you don't like, or have stupid names for their boats. Charge the most for people whom are a pain in the butt. Of course these charges are totally arbitrary at your whim and as the mood moves you.
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Old 14-07-2009, 07:03   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
Visual pollution see Multihulls are the most visually polluting things we can do to the waterways
I have to say that in shopping for boats the one thing I can't get over, even though some of them have some great designs, is that so many multi-hulls are just soooo damn ugly!

I have seen a few cats that were without a doubt architectural masterpieces, but the 90% of them look like something from a 70's Sci Fi series has crashed in the water and someone attached a sail to it.


As for the charging though, I actually think that when you are renting an end slip there should just be a large boat fee rather than charging by the foot. It a slip can only take one boat why does it matter if your boat is a 50' or a 75' so long as it fits in the slip?

I think the billing actually unfairly favours mid sized boats. Afterall, those bigger boats aren't going to use any more resources than the smaller ones and a single boat slip is a single boat slip.
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Old 14-07-2009, 08:46   #5
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If you want to look at it purely from an economic perspective, you charge what the market will bear. This is where you find the marginal rate of return. That's the rate you charge to maximize your returns. If one charges any higher then they make make less If they charge any lower they also make less as well. It relates to the classic supply-demand curve.

People who run marinas are in it to make money. They are not partial charities who should be pricing their slips at below market rates. So given that, I don't blame them for charging the rate that will return them the most money.

Catamarans are in a different supply-demand category than monohulls since they cannot use the narrower slips. This causes a different supply and demand curve for catamarans than monohulls. Therefore the marina owner must figure out the rate for catamarans that will give them the greatest return. Comparing cats to monohulls and then coming up with some mathematical model based on deckspace or whatever to make it fair makes absolutely no sense economically. Deckspace or whatever has nothing to do with the reasons for the differences in the supply and demand between different categories of boats.

The determining factor on whether a marina owner is charging too much or too less for a specific category of boat is as follows: If the slips that can accommodate catamarans, (or whatever category of boat), are not full then the owner is charging too much. If there is a waiting list then the owner is charging too little.

The marginal rate of return for the marina owner is going to be the price level which causes the supply and demand to be at a balance....no waiting list and no empty slips for any specific category of boat. Of course getting exactly there is no easy matter. Being close is best a marina owner can ever expect to get. As a practical matter, nobody is gong to want to see their bill fluctuating up or down on a monthly basis as boats in their boats category come to, or leave the marina.

I'm just looking at it purely from an economic perspective. I'm not defending anyone here.
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Old 14-07-2009, 15:12   #6
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Actualy, for the larger marinas near the coast line, I'm somewhat suprised that there arn't two types of slips. Wider one in shallower waters for the cats and tri where it's easy to put them, and narrow ones in deeper waters for the monos.

I'm also suprised that they charge by the foot of deck, instead of a "that size slip is X dollars".
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Old 14-07-2009, 16:42   #7
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Many of them charge by the length of slip....
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Old 14-07-2009, 16:58   #8
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In our area the charge is based on the fact one cat takes up the area of 2 monos & the charge will vary from twice to one & a half times the mono fees. I have found that you can deal with the operator sometimes for long time rental periods. It does appear to me that positions which would not disadvantage the operator should not be charging more because they can. But I do not own marina!! just a cat!

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Old 14-07-2009, 17:34   #9
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In my yacht club we lease underwater land from the Department of natural Resources. We have End ties, alongside slips, and boathouses. The costs of maintaining our marina including the unmoored area between rows of slips or boathouses is prorated against the slip or boathouse area. Then for simplification, since boathouse rows are grouped by length and open slips are grouped by dock length we assign a front foot cost to boathouse moorage and dock foot for slips. End ties are allowed a predetermined width which would be close to that of a catamaran. We have some other common cover slips which have a higher price because they are bigger, covered, and they have a finger pier on each side. If your marina rents area from the state they have to do something to recover their costs.

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Old 14-07-2009, 22:32   #10
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People who run marinas are in it to make money. They are not partial charities who should be pricing their slips at below market rates. So given that, I don't blame them for charging the rate that will return them the most money.
Not so in my part of the world - every marina I have been in is a club run situation. The club does not exist to make a profit, it exists to serve its members.

You appear to miss my point - which fundamentally is that the boat harbour I am in gets dredged, and I pay for that when I don't need it, clearly in the overall package of costs dredging is one of the costs, why should it be approtioned to all vessells equally, and if it is why then should other issues - like beam, be not so approprtioned.
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Old 14-07-2009, 23:08   #11
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I do understand your point Factor. I was focused on the issue purely from a capitalist/economics perspective. The conversation was starting to lean in that direction. I understand that the function if clubs is not to maximize their revenues.
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Old 15-07-2009, 02:30   #12
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I pay school tax, yet I have no children, I pay a hospital tax, yearly, yet I have only been in a hospital twice in my life, and I paid for both occurrences. We all pay for things that we do not necessarily utilize, however if we want the services that a marina provides, some the the expenses will have to be spread through the whole fleet to keep the operation at a manageable expense level for all vessels involved. another alternative would be to have separate marinas for the different classes of vessels.
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Old 15-07-2009, 02:33   #13
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Ah, the old debate about which (and how much of each) services are in the public or general interest?
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Old 15-07-2009, 02:46   #14
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Our illustrious Premier/Queen of SE Qld also raised rego etc to help cover such costs. Even though your marina may be a club, it is still a commercial enterprise, as is the rest of Qld these days. Lift the pick, move up the creek, the crabs are fatter and still free.
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Old 15-07-2009, 03:00   #15
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Too true Gord.
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