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Old 07-05-2015, 20:23   #1
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Cats vs Mono..why a mono

Yeah yeah, its been beat to death and usually the cat folks have much longer lists as to why they are better. But consider...the most typical mono is under 50 feet and arguably 45 feet. So if you are a person who cannot afford more than 45 feet, what would your comparative cat be for the price and size? As for size, lets say a new 45' mono is about 600 interior square feet. Comparably, I estimate that is something like 35-37' cat. Comparing the two (considering generally new boas)

1. Tons more options on the mono side...on the cat side you are talking a Gemini and maybe a mahe. That is it. Monos there are options galore to choose from.
2. Salon probably the same size in general.
3. Headroom way, way better on the mono.
4. Staterooms on the mono have width, probably slightly wider berths too.
5. Even if you say, no, 45' mono is like a 38-40' cat, I would say, the cats are so focused on the charter trade they try to squeeze in 3-4 heads and 3- 4 berths...wasted space for a typical cruising couple.
6. OK to the cockpit will be better in the cat right? Probably...though new monos are so fat nowadays, I am not so sure the cat's cockpit is so, s much better.

Thoughts? Yes I am focusing on space here, not sailing characteristics. I am a cat fan...but in looking to buy in 5+ years I am coming to find that if given the choice between a 45 mono and a 36 cat...I think the mono is quite competitive.
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Old 08-05-2015, 01:14   #2
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Re: Cats vs Mono..why a mono

Plus add the daily costs of owning a cat if you're not cruising. Your berth needs to be wider thus more expensive, your haulout costs are much more, you got two hulls to maintain, etc, etc. In our mooring field where there are hundreds of moorings, can't say I remember seeing even one cat as a permanent occupant other than one or two 40ft carbon racing ones (think of Hobbie on steroids) with no cabin to speak of.
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Old 08-05-2015, 01:45   #3
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Re: Cats vs Mono..why a mono

I know a lot of folks consider the money aspect as their prime focus but even though I'm a very cheap guy that really has little to do with my choice and I'd go with a 36 or less for a mono.

Just my thoughts here.
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Old 08-05-2015, 01:48   #4
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Re: Cats vs Mono..why a mono

Sigh.

Methinks the point once more has been missed completely as to why a person purchases a Catamaran or a mono. This is a singular 'difference' and based on one aspect only.

Lets be real obvious. A Catamaran is NOT a mono. It doesnt look the same, does not handle the same and by golly is NOT the same. Personally I purchase a boat based on the individual characteristics of my requirements being met in a design and in space required and NOT solely on length or width.

Catamarans are purchased based on a lot of criterion being met. A more stable ride, a much better motion at anchor, less or no heeling during passage, privacy in the 2 hulls, not having to stow everything before setting off..... the list of differences is long and flogged to death.

There is a cost difference in having two hulls simply because.....well you have two hulls. But then if you want an Oyster mono but have a Westerly size wallet, its the same difference.

Go get your 45 foot mono in 5 years. Im sure the person who has a 40 foot catamaran wont mind. He may have paid a little more for his 2 hulls but not once will he have compared it to a mono except in passing. He or she bought a catamaran because...... well they like a catamaran. They probably thought it met their cruising criterion and like the width and the length and the space and motion and the stability and the ease of use plus a million other reasons.

Currently I have 2 monos and the use of one Cat from time to time. I love the Centaur for coastal hops around the UK but prefer the lagoon 380 in Mallorca for living on and motion. Would I swap the monos for a Cat? You betcha. I will do in time.

I insist a person must be free to purchase whatever vessel their heart desires, and their pocket can match. Some people even buy motor boats!

Your line of reasoning is a non starter.
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Old 08-05-2015, 02:30   #5
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Re: Cats vs Mono..why a mono

Both cats and monohulls take you into the wild blue yonder and that makes them both great by me.

I don't think you can analyse the difference between the two on paper. You need to sail and live on both in varying conditions to come to a conclusion. There are plenty of "crew wanted" ads on CF so there is no excuse not to make an informed decision.

One mistake I see people consistently making is comparing a cat with same length monohull. It is good to see the OP not falling for this trap. If you compare a cat with a larger LOA monohull, a lot of the differences such as cost (both initial and maintenance), speed and living space disappear.
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Old 08-05-2015, 02:40   #6
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Re: Cats vs Mono..why a mono

Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
Both cats and monohulls take you into the wild blue yonder and that makes them both great by me.

I don't think you can analyse the difference between the two on paper. You need to sail and live on both in varying conditions to come to a conclusion. There are plenty of "crew wanted" ads on CF so there is no excuse not to make an informed decision.

One mistake I see people consistently making is comparing a cat with same length monohull. It is good to see the OP not falling for this trap. If you compare a cat with a larger LOA monohull, a lot of the differences such as cost (both initial and maintenance), speed and living space disappear.
I think Noelex, therin also lies a problem in comparison. If a person is going to purchase a monohull, they purchase what suits them in length and cost management.

Same for a Catamaran. A person purchases what suits them Im pretty sure I didnt once say to myself, I will buy this 36 foot cat because its equal to a 45 monohull......

It is NOT the same type of vessel in many ways. A person MUST get what they want and forgo the comparisons once committed to one or two hulls.

30 years ago, my clinic partner answered an ad for a Jensen Interceptor that was in the newspaper. He asked the seller for a example of replacement cost for a radiator so he could compare to his own vehicle. There was a pause on the phone and the seller said: "Sir, with respect, if you have to ask what a radiator costs, this car is not for you" and hung up the phone.
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Old 08-05-2015, 03:47   #7
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Re: Cats vs Mono..why a mono

We wanted to purchase a mono, made 3 offers on 2 diff CSY 44 wt. In the end the money would have been the same as an Athena 38 so we went that route. 4 staterooms that can comfortably sleep most couples. 2 heads that are ok but not comfy unless your a skinny frenchmen. Better performance every were except beating to weather an a shallower draft were not why we went with the cat. The big consideration was after 2 to 5 years or more of cruising we felt we could if we wanted to change boats, get more of our investment back. I still think about the csy44, I think most good 44ish cruising boats are going to be around that 100 to 125k (heck most morgan 41 ois we looked at w wet decks and rot were 45 to 60k) mark and probably more once refitted updated etc so money is pretty close to a 36 to 38 cat lots of great PDQs etc out there for that.

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Old 08-05-2015, 05:00   #8
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Re: Cats vs Mono..why a mono

Add in Cats are very much in fashion, how often do you hear from new prospective buyers, "of course it has to be a Cat", when they have no experience whatsoever?
I'm not saying this is a determent, but I do believe whatever is in fashion at the time, very heavily affects re-sale value.
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Old 08-05-2015, 05:25   #9
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Re: Cats vs Mono..why a mono

Perhaps the "of course it has to be a Cat" people are actually the unbiased who are making decisions based upon logical research instead of whatever emotional processes end up in others buying heavier-than-water craft that are unstable in the roll axis.
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Old 08-05-2015, 05:45   #10
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Re: Cats vs Mono..why a mono

Hi Duke - assuming your analysis is correct regarding the space of a 45' mono being comparable to a 35-37' cat, I agree that a mono makes more sense if space is your selection criteria and proxy for initial costs. Cruising cats under 40' start to lose advantages, IMHO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Time O25 View Post
Plus add the daily costs of owning a cat if you're not cruising. Your berth needs to be wider thus more expensive, your haulout costs are much more.....
Actually, every place I hauled my cat the cost has been by the foot, same as for a mono. Blocking cats is butt simple vs monos, especially keel cats. Just set them down. That said, hauling facilities for large beam cats are fewer in number.

Good luck,
Dave
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Old 08-05-2015, 05:56   #11
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pirate Re: Cats vs Mono..why a mono

Have owned both mono's and cat's..
Deliver both mono's and cat's..
Currently own a mono..
Would I own another cat..??
Yes..!!
Itsa Boat...
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Old 08-05-2015, 06:15   #12
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Re: Cats vs Mono..why a mono

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Add in Cats are very much in fashion, how often do you hear from new prospective buyers, "of course it has to be a Cat", when they have no experience whatsoever?
I'm not saying this is a determent, but I do believe whatever is in fashion at the time, very heavily affects re-sale value.
You say they're "in fashion" likes it's a passing fad. My prediction is cats will stay in fashion forever.
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Old 08-05-2015, 06:32   #13
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Re: Cats vs Mono..why a mono

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Yeah yeah, its been beat to death and usually the cat folks have much longer lists as to why they are better. But consider...the most typical mono is under 50 feet and arguably 45 feet. So if you are a person who cannot afford more than 45 feet, what would your comparative cat be for the price and size? As for size, lets say a new 45' mono is about 600 interior square feet. Comparably, I estimate that is something like 35-37' cat. Comparing the two (considering generally new boas)

1. Tons more options on the mono side...on the cat side you are talking a Gemini and maybe a mahe. That is it. Monos there are options galore to choose from. While there are more mono's (which are all pretty similar anyway as there are limited ways to divy up 35' of space), you left out lots of options: Various Catalac models, various Endeavor models, PDQ, Prouts, etc... Hardly a choice of 2 models.
2. Salon probably the same size in general. Not really unless the mono's cabins are reduced or eliminated. Also, the galley is often seperate on a cat. Or were you saying a 45' mono has a salon the size of a 35' cat?
3. Headroom way, way better on the mono. Generally better but depends on the model. Mono's have nothing on an Endeavor 36. Of course that headroom in a mono typically comes via cavelike living.
4. Staterooms on the mono have width, probably slightly wider berths too. I've not seen a 3 stateroom mono with near the berths we have in our gemini. (again assuming you aren't going up to a much larger 45' boat)
5. Even if you say, no, 45' mono is like a 38-40' cat, I would say, the cats are so focused on the charter trade they try to squeeze in 3-4 heads and 3- 4 berths...wasted space for a typical cruising couple. While there are some charter focused boats, there are also owner focused designs.
6. OK to the cockpit will be better in the cat right? Probably...though new monos are so fat nowadays, I am not so sure the cat's cockpit is so, s much better. Hard to beat setting your drink down and it's there when you get back. Mono's mimicking cats have made the cockpits better but the cat still has the edge on space.

Thoughts? Yes I am focusing on space here, not sailing characteristics. I am a cat fan...but in looking to buy in 5+ years I am coming to find that if given the choice between a 45 mono and a 36 cat...I think the mono is quite competitive.
Don't forget that 45' mono will likely have a purchase price and ongoing expenses 30-40% higher as a lot of costs are closely correlated with length.

The main reasons I see for going mono:
- Keeping the cost down but this is fading as an edge. 20yrs ago there were a tiny number of used cats on the market and they were all relatively new. With the surge in popularity, there are many more on the market and there are more older boats that have gone thru the heavy depretiation stage.
- You have a masocitstic desire to live live on a 30d tilt (aka: the traditional feel of a mono). Even at anchor, a small cat will be much more stable.
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Old 08-05-2015, 06:59   #14
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Re: Cats vs Mono..why a mono

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke95 View Post
Yeah yeah, its been beat to death and usually the cat folks have much longer lists as to why they are better.
I prefer to think of it as rational and accurate rebuttals to your incorrect assertions and statements.

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Old 08-05-2015, 07:20   #15
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Re: Cats vs Mono..why a mono

Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis View Post
Sigh.

Methinks the point once more has been missed completely as to why a person purchases a Catamaran or a mono. This is a singular 'difference' and based on one aspect only.

Lets be real obvious. A Catamaran is NOT a mono. It doesnt look the same, does not handle the same and by golly is NOT the same. Personally I purchase a boat based on the individual characteristics of my requirements being met in a design and in space required and NOT solely on length or width.

Catamarans are purchased based on a lot of criterion being met. A more stable ride, a much better motion at anchor, less or no heeling during passage, privacy in the 2 hulls, not having to stow everything before setting off..... the list of differences is long and flogged to death.

There is a cost difference in having two hulls simply because.....well you have two hulls. But then if you want an Oyster mono but have a Westerly size wallet, its the same difference.

Go get your 45 foot mono in 5 years. Im sure the person who has a 40 foot catamaran wont mind. He may have paid a little more for his 2 hulls but not once will he have compared it to a mono except in passing. He or she bought a catamaran because...... well they like a catamaran. They probably thought it met their cruising criterion and like the width and the length and the space and motion and the stability and the ease of use plus a million other reasons.

Currently I have 2 monos and the use of one Cat from time to time. I love the Centaur for coastal hops around the UK but prefer the lagoon 380 in Mallorca for living on and motion. Would I swap the monos for a Cat? You betcha. I will do in time.

I insist a person must be free to purchase whatever vessel their heart desires, and their pocket can match. Some people even buy motor boats!

Your line of reasoning is a non starter.
I have to disagree. The OPs line of reasoning is just as valid as any other. His priorities and preferences are just as valid as any other and just as valid to him as your are to you.

If he wants to buy a mono or cat because he likes the size and shape of the windows of one over the other then that's as good a reason as any.

Personally in this size range I would choose the mono because all the small cats I've seen look like a floating box. Just my opinion and I'm sure others won't agree. However part of boating I think for almost all of us is the emotional connection with the boat.

Now once you get up to 50' or so I think a cat can look sexy but that's beyond my budget.
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