Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 09-05-2015, 20:31   #76
Registered User
 
FamilyVan's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,779
Re: Cats vs Mono..why a mono

Last pic for Weavis. If you don't think I know anything about catamarans, this former Archbishop of Cape Town and Nobel Peace prize winner thinks I know my Cats.

I think Cats are sweet, but my boat is a heavy displacement mono and I like her.

Sent from my SGH-I547C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1431224839940.jpg
Views:	139
Size:	65.5 KB
ID:	101689  
__________________

__________________
FamilyVan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2015, 21:44   #77
Registered User
 
markpierce's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Central California
Boat: M/V Carquinez Coot
Posts: 3,416
Re: Cats vs Mono..why a mono

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
I guess I "aged" at the age of 31.
Show us a picture of yourself. Bet you look 50+ years. ... You're old.
__________________

__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2015, 22:20   #78
Registered User
 
markpierce's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Central California
Boat: M/V Carquinez Coot
Posts: 3,416
Re: Cats vs Mono..why a mono

Catamarans with living facilities are rare here except for the ferries.


__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2015, 22:21   #79
Eternal Member
 
monte's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 3,650
Images: 1
Re: Cats vs Mono..why a mono

Guess I was a child prodigy at 12yo..
Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByCruisers Sailing Forum1431231651.970229.jpg
Views:	123
Size:	105.6 KB
ID:	101715
__________________
monte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2015, 22:37   #80
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,454
Images: 69
Re: Cats vs Mono..why a mono

Pointless thread really. Someone's decided on a boat, and for some reason feels the need to justify their decision.
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2015, 01:40   #81
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 10,137
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: Cats vs Mono..why a mono

Quote:
Originally Posted by FamilyVan View Post
Did I mention I'm full time Captain of a 700 passenger commercial (power) cat and have some insight into the benefits and limitations of the catamaran design?

Sent from my SGH-I547C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
Yes......... a few times. I like reading some of your observations.

Did you notice a lot of boat owners on here have Catamarans and have extensive experience in dirty water conditions and sail them regularly and have a different opinion to you? There are limitations to every design. If I had to be in Northern Waters in a Monohull there are certain monohulls that I most certainly would not want to be in. There are certain Catamarans I would not want to be in.

I sail British and Med waters going down the West coast of France moderately regularly........ Irish waters and the Bay of Biscay area will sort out the men and boats. I try to read the weather as best I can to avoid Biscay on a bad hair day.

Ive sailed in monos and multis in both and each has their merits. Once in a boat and encountering the Biscay temper, there is no ability to change hulls.mid storm if the conditions do not suit the hull type and we think the other will do a better job.

Yet I have no hesitation in choosing 'certain' multihulls to do the trip in and have a security in its ability to ride a storm and be as comfortable as it can be. In monohulls I would also prefer to be in the Colvic Watson rather than the Westerly Centaur in the bay.

Ive puked on both types of hulls.



__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2015, 06:35   #82
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 4,339
Re: Cats vs Mono..why a mono

Let's see...

Yesterday we went sailing, though just a day sail (early in the season).

  • Slip is $100/mo for 20 ft beam. The reason for the low price is that I do not need a deep slip (no one considered that substantial discount).
  • No extra hauling fee, just length.
  • Less bottom paint. Much less. Sand and paint takes only a few hours.
  • We anchored in 4' of water. 6-7 draft would have not gone in the cove.
  • My back is throbbing, but the dingy is on davits and is easily boarded from between twin swim platforms. Bet I can launch dingies and kayaks in rougher conditions than ANY mono.
  • Yes, we have 2 queen (standard bedding) berths (plus single berths available, but I don't like too many guests), a stand-up shower, fridge, stove, heat, and all that good live aboard stuff. Imagine that.
  • Sails are smaller, since I don't have to push lead around. A 34' cat is much easier to work than a heavier 40' boat. Only 1/2 half the mass and very easy to singlehand.
  • Ground tackle is similar. similar wind load vs. larger mono, but less surge load (weight). Easier to damp with bridle, but more need to limit chain weight. So slightly different but equivalent gear.
  • Sails are cheaper. Actually, much of the stuff is, because it is smaller. So maintenance may actually be less. Fully battened mains are $$$, but the genoas and other head sails, including furlers, are cheaper.
  • My knees can't take companionway ladders. A stupid feature, IMHO.
  • Twin screws are sweet for docking. I back-in every day.
  • Faster than a 40' boat, even to weather (compared to 40' loaded cruising boats with a dingy on the davits--let's be fair).
  • Perhaps more expensive. I'm OK with that. It is physically better for us. I also don't drive a sub-mini or an old car, even though both are clearly better values than my car. I'm pretty sure a big old van gives me more ft3/$ than my car. I don't really care, since those are silly metrics for my purposes and needs.
Pluses for monos? Sure, and I've sailed a few. Nice big single cabin, don't need to be as weather conscious, smoother ride, nice and big. Easier to heat. There is NO QUESTION that I would buy a mono for certain applications. Horses for courses.
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing

Writing full-time since 2014.
Bookstore:http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/20...ook-store.html
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2015, 08:28   #83
Registered User
 
FamilyVan's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,779
Re: Cats vs Mono..why a mono

Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis View Post
Yes......... a few times. I like reading some of your observations.

Did you notice a lot of boat owners on here have Catamarans and have extensive experience in dirty water conditions and sail them regularly and have a different opinion to you? There are limitations to every design. If I had to be in Northern Waters in a Monohull there are certain monohulls that I most certainly would not want to be in. There are certain Catamarans I would not want to be in.

I sail British and Med waters going down the West coast of France moderately regularly........ Irish waters and the Bay of Biscay area will sort out the men and boats. I try to read the weather as best I can to avoid Biscay on a bad hair day.

Ive sailed in monos and multis in both and each has their merits. Once in a boat and encountering the Biscay temper, there is no ability to change hulls.mid storm if the conditions do not suit the hull type and we think the other will do a better job.

Yet I have no hesitation in choosing 'certain' multihulls to do the trip in and have a security in its ability to ride a storm and be as comfortable as it can be. In monohulls I would also prefer to be in the Colvic Watson rather than the Westerly Centaur in the bay.

Ive puked on both types of hulls.



That's what I'm saying. I'm saying cats aren't better or worse, I'm saying they're better suited to different kinds of work. Do you know a lot of Cat sailors that have done significant ice navigation? I doubt it, cats get stuck in ice too easily. Some tasks are easier performed with some boat in the water and some required mass. Cats are fantastic for jobs that require maximum square footage per ton of displacement, like speed, living space and carrying passengers. By the exact same fundaments they are ill suited to tasks requiring heavy displacement. How can you just say Cats are better. That's a non sensical argument. They are different, not better. Whether you select a cat or a mono will depend on your needs and personal preferences, not which is better

Sent from my SGH-I547C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
FamilyVan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2015, 08:37   #84
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 10,137
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: Cats vs Mono..why a mono

Such an attractive Catamaran......
TAG 60.

Shame about the price and my wallet potential.


__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2015, 08:38   #85
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,382
Re: Cats vs Mono..why a mono

Quote:
Originally Posted by FamilyVan View Post
That's what I'm saying. I'm saying cats aren't better or worse, I'm saying they're better suited to different kinds of work.
Exactly. Like anything boating there's no free lunch. Everything is a compromise with advantages and disadvantages, including cats and monos.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2015, 14:17   #86
Registered User
 
malbert73's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Boat: Tartan 40
Posts: 1,032
Re: Cats vs Mono..why a mono

How are typical cruising cats sailing to weather or reaching in light air? I know a lot of speed conparisons cited are in heavy air, but I am wondering how easy it is to keep sails drawing in 4-6 knots of breeze without heel?
Genuine question. My suspicion is that's why the Neel tri is brilliant- fast in all breeze


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
malbert73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2015, 17:16   #87
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Cats vs Mono..why a mono

Quote:
Originally Posted by malbert73 View Post
How are typical cruising cats sailing to weather or reaching in light air? I know a lot of speed conparisons cited are in heavy air, but I am wondering how easy it is to keep sails drawing in 4-6 knots of breeze without heel?
Genuine question. My suspicion is that's why the Neel tri is brilliant- fast in all breeze


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
By a typical I will assume something like what Moorings and Sunsail keep in their fleets. A Lagoon, a FP, etc. An Airbus a Boeing.

By performance I will assume speed * cos angle.

If I were to judge from I what I can see in the West Indies this would have to be a wild guess. Every time it is light they seem to be motoring actually. This may imply poor light winds performance, poor skills, or people in the hurry mode.

If I were to judge from the time my friends sailed to the Azores from St Marteen, the performance is about on par with same size modern light mono.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2015, 07:07   #88
Eternal Member
 
monte's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 3,650
Images: 1
Re: Cats vs Mono..why a mono

Typically, and very roughly, our Lagoon 400 will sail at around 1/2 true windspeed in most directions, up to about 20K TWS, so depending on how far we have to sail, if we are rushed to arrive before nightfall etc. usually determines if we are sailing or motoring or motor sailing. I don't really like the term motor sailing much as it implies some sort of sailing, but it's not really
In the last 6 months in the Caribbean wind has been mostly 10-25K so no need for us to motor in any directions at any time, except occasionally in the lee of islands in light flukey winds for short periods..great sailing ! sea state has a lot to do with it as well, tacking upwind and up current in under 8K true wind would be slow. A 4K speed through water, combined with 1-2K current against in most places in the Caribbean would equate to under 1K speed made good to our destination. Not bad if you have all day to go 5 miles (we do), not so good if you're in a hurry
We would likely motor sail in those conditions if on a timeline. Motor sailing to windward in under 8K TWS would
increase the usable apparent wind to 12K
Add momentum to sail through lulls and on/off waves and chop
Use less than 2l of fuel/hr
Charge batteries and heat water

performance of an average 40' cruising cat is usually similar to an average slightly larger cruising mono, with some being a bit faster (cruiser racers) and some being a bit slower (heavy displacement)
These are pretty broad examples.
__________________
monte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2015, 08:17   #89
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,243
Re: Cats vs Mono..why a mono

Please note that the abbreviation for knots is kn, though some countries use kt. 1,000 is still a good speed, despite the current!
__________________
Bristol 31.1, SF Bay.
MarkSF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2015, 19:32   #90
Eternal Member
 
monte's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 3,650
Images: 1
Re: Cats vs Mono..why a mono

True! Thanks I'll fix my fkn kt abbreviations
__________________

__________________
monte is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Are Mono's Hotter Than Cats? Tscott8201 General Sailing Forum 22 27-02-2015 18:15
Why Don't Cats Race? RubyBishop General Sailing Forum 33 24-01-2010 16:10
Why are certain brands of Cats for sale... CastOff Multihull Sailboats 3 19-01-2010 13:33
Why Big HP Difference in Sail/Power Cats? NorthPaul Multihull Sailboats 5 12-08-2009 16:17
cost no object... neither to buy or maintain - what mono would you have any why? Sterling Monohull Sailboats 36 25-10-2008 08:19



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:10.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.