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Old 12-07-2016, 19:31   #16
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Re: 'Captain's authority'

It was much better being captain before Two Years Before The Mast was published. That led to Seaman's Rights laws being passed. Now you can't flog or shoot the slow ones out of the rigging. It's a bitch finding quality, responsive crew.
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Old 12-07-2016, 19:42   #17
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Re: 'Captain's authority'

Unless you are on a garbage scow, leave the trash where you found it.
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Old 12-07-2016, 19:51   #18
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Re: 'Captain's authority'

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
Weren't playing 'dress ups' by any chance were we?

I bet the 'Captain' referred to by the OP brought his Captain's hat along for the trip ... and wore it...
How did you know I was wearing women's undies?



Sent from a stupid phone that replaces words with weird stuff.
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Old 12-07-2016, 20:33   #19
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Re: 'Captain's authority'

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Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
.


Person I had on board last night kept calling me Captain and "pirate". I kept telling her my name is Mark and I am honest! But some people think a stupid title is manditory on H2O.


Mark
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Weren't playing 'dress ups' by any chance were we?
10 bucks says he kept telling her his name was 'Phil', or 'Bob'. Maybe even 'Brad'.
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Old 12-07-2016, 22:22   #20
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Re: 'Captain's authority'

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Originally Posted by phillman5 View Post
Three couples self chartered a cat in BVI. One couple had experience so the man was by default 'captain'. He had made the chartering arrangements. The couples were related. All couples paid equally for the boat.

What authority does the 'Captain' have, especially with issues not related to operations? The issue here is one person found some trash while snorkeling and wanted to put it in the trash. 'Captain' said no.

I do note that at the time the cat was moored to a ball in a harbor, not at sea. Does that make a difference?

Is this just a personal indifference or does the 'Captain' have legal authority?

Thanks for any insight.
I'd like to know exactly what the "trash" consisted of and the reason why he didn't want it on the boat. Are we talking about a few aluminum soda cans or something that could potentially endanger the crew or vessel? At first reading it sounded to me like he was just being an ass on an ego trip, but then I wondered if just possibly there was a logical and valid reason why he didn't want it on the boat so I'd like to have that information before taking a side regarding your situation.

The reason why every vessel needs to have a captain whether or not he's called "captain" (or wants to be) or is licensed or not is so there is ONE person who is ultimately responsible for the operation of the vessel. The reason there needs to be just one person in charge is because oftentimes, there is not time for a committee to debate and take a vote on what's the best course of action, and lives and/or the survival of the whole vessel can be at stake. So, by long tradition, we have a singular "captain" of the ship and he's ultimately responsible for pretty much everything that happens aboard. But that doesn't mean a good captain micromanages every action that occurs and I've found it to be true that some of the best captains hardly ever have to exert their authority to keep the ship safe and things running smoothly though they reserve the right to do that at any time for any reason they (not you) deem appropriate. If you are on a boat or plane (small or large), and someone else has agreed to accept the responsibility for the operation of that vessel, then you are obligated to support his/her decisions unless you believe they are illegal or clearly unsafe and in that case you can mutiny, replace him, and justify your actions when you get ashore. You may strongly prefer another course of action and you may feel you have very good reasons to think the way you do, and a good captain "should" take your opinion into account whenever possible, but whether you feel that he understands your point of view or has given it the credence it deserves, IF he still disagrees with you and it's not going to endanger you or the vessel or break the law, you must go along with his decision no matter how strongly you disagree. Then, the first time the boat makes port, you can get off, and the next time you go sailing, either become qualified and accept the responsibility of being the "captain" yourself, or choose to sail on a vessel with a different captain whose style is more to your liking.

Any captain who makes a habit of trying to micromanage his "crew" over trivial matters will soon be sailing all by himself with no one to boss around.
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Old 13-07-2016, 00:38   #21
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Re: 'Captain's authority'

Tricky subject the Captain on a boat thing no matter what the position is called. On land if you volunteer to join a venture and it starts to go wrong you can take your bat and ball and go home, not so on a boat once it leaves the dock. On the water, even if it's in a dingy someone needs to be able to call the shots for the safety of the vessel and crew. This brings us to the crux of the matter, if a person is designated as the "Captain" or "Skipper" or "Person in Command" it is customary, and may even be a legal requirement, that this person has the final decision making power in matters related to the safety of the vessel and crew and may be held legally liable in the event of an incident involving these matters. However, if it's just a matter of removing a bit of rubbish or whether to have spaghetti or ice cream for dinner a prudent person would let others have a say.
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Old 13-07-2016, 00:39   #22
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Re: 'Captain's authority'

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Originally Posted by jeremiason View Post
So the real questions to be answered before making an opinion are...

WHAT DID YOU FIND ON THE OCEAN FLOOR THAT YOU CONSIDERED TRASH?

WHAT WAS YOUR CAPTAIN'S REASON FOR NOT WANTING THE ITEM PUT IN THE VESSEL'S TRASH CONTAINER?
The piece of garbage was a beer can, Captain gave no reason for not wanting the can put in the vessel's trash container. The harbor, if I remember correctly, may not have had trash disposal facility, so we would not have to trash disposal for another day (this would be worst case scenario) Can could be squished to minimize volume in vessel's trash container.
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Old 13-07-2016, 00:53   #23
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Re: 'Captain's authority'

A beer can?
The 'captain' should seek professional help.....
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Old 13-07-2016, 02:45   #24
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Re: 'Captain's authority'

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
A beer can?
The 'captain' should seek professional help.....
+1

wtf
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Old 13-07-2016, 05:07   #25
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Re: 'Captain's authority'

"Wow let's watch NetFlix....... Gee they have the Caine Mutiny--- lets watch that movie!!!!"


Sent from my iPhone- please forgive autocorrect errors.
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Old 13-07-2016, 05:50   #26
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Re: 'Captain's authority'

A beer can?? That's ridiculous!!

As far as authority of the captain on charter like that, I don't really look at it as "legal" maritime authority but I do look at it as "financial" and "safety" authority. There is one person on that boat that is financially and legally responsible for it for the duration of the charter. I make it quite clear when we charter and take friends that I am responsible so what I say goes but that only pertains to operating the boat and safety. They are more than welcome to sign for responsibility and I can spend all week drinking rum!!
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Old 13-07-2016, 06:00   #27
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Re: 'Captain's authority'

All this over picking an EMPTY beer can
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Old 13-07-2016, 07:17   #28
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Re: 'Captain's authority'

A beer can?

Its up to all of us to rehouse beer cans from reefs to recycling bins. Why? Because an alaminum can is coated inside and out with PLASTIC! Thus its against MARPOL to chuck it in anyway.

Quote:
researchers kept coming up with a problem that the beer would eat into the liner of the can. Beer has a strong affinity for metal, causing precipitated salts and a foul taste. The brewers called the condition “metal turbidity”. The American Can Company produced the flat or punch top can in 1934. The lining was made from a Union Carbide product called “Vinylite”, a plastic product which was trademarked “keglined” on September 25, 1934. So the fact is that an aluminium can actually contains Plastic. It is illegal under MARPOL regulations to throw plastic in the ocean all around the world.

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Old 13-07-2016, 07:41   #29
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Re: 'Captain's authority'

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Originally Posted by phillman5 View Post
The piece of garbage was a beer can, Captain gave no reason for not wanting the can put in the vessel's trash container. The harbor, if I remember correctly, may not have had trash disposal facility, so we would not have to trash disposal for another day (this would be worst case scenario) Can could be squished to minimize volume in vessel's trash container.
Thanks for clearing that up. Wow, he's making a big deal out of just a beer can?! The lesson I'd learn from this incident is that I'd never set foot on a boat with him in charge again. He's not rational.

I'd call what you did, picking up a piece of trash you found where it doesn't belong, being a good neighbor. Most folks would pick up a beer can thrown on their own lawn or on the sidewalk in their own neighborhood, but fewer would see it as their responsibility to pick up something laying on the bottom of the ocean far from their own home. But it's people with your attitude, who are willing and expect to do their small part to make wherever in the world they might be today, "their neighborhood" and to make that neighborhood a little bit nicer place for everyone when the opportunity presents itself, who I want to sail with and hang out with.
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Old 13-07-2016, 08:03   #30
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Re: 'Captain's authority'

Yep.

Think antifouling ... who needed antifouling when we were allowed to drag the crew under our keels?

Modern PC BS.

Last year I was skippering a charter cat in the Virgins and one client asked me to flog her. I refused, she complained, I got fired!

I am telling you: this world is rolling over.

Cheers,
b.
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