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Old 26-04-2014, 09:35   #61
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Re: Can't Wrap my Mind Around this "Bluewater" Thing!

Thanks, I was simply replying to someone's point that this "bluewater" stuff has been really beaten to death, like "What's the Best anchor..." Many folks wait some time to post on forums (and some just jumping right in) but this particular forum usually has at least one "bluewater" or related thread a week, all of which receive pretty much the same answers, in a non-controversial subject. That's all. My experience has been that skippers who post the same question on multiple forums, get pretty much the same answers across the board (sbo, sailnet, one design associations, here, ybw, etc.). That's why I commented as I did over on sbo.

And I venture to submit that the answers provided over there, like Benny's, pretty much reflect what has been offered here.
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Old 26-04-2014, 09:36   #62
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Re: Can't wrap my mind around this "bluewater" thing!

First let me say that I am not opposed to spade rudders but I do have to argue a few of your points. I can't help it, it's just in my nature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K_V_B View Post
Hit the bottom with a rudder designed by Dashew and you lose the bottom part, but you can still steer...
And the number of sailboats on the water designed by Steve Dashew, making a wild guess, is something like 0.01% of the total or maybe 0.05% of the boats with spade rudders?

There are many, many cases of boats with spade rudders that bumped something and ended up with jammed steering, often with the rudder hard over. Maybe not on a Deerfoot but just about any other boat you care to name with a spade rudder has had it happen.



Quote:
Originally Posted by K_V_B View Post
But a skeg hung rudder is not "a beam supported on both ends". In the end the skeg is also only supported on one end.
Depends on the skeg. The difference is a skeg has a much larger attachment point to the hull than the interior support and exit point of a spade rudder. A properly designed and built skeg can certainly contribute significant support to the bottom end of a rudder post so could be a beam supported on both ends.

Which brings me back to your original post. I would rather say that a properly engineered spade rudder is better than a poorly engineered skeg hung rudder and vice versa. If engineering and construction were more or less equal, in my opinion (for whatever that may be worth) I think a skeg hung rudder has a slight advantage over a spade in regards to strength, resistance to jamming on grounding, etc
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Old 26-04-2014, 09:37   #63
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Re: Can't Wrap my Mind Around this "Bluewater" Thing!

I think what I have taken from all of you is the kind of right tool for the job kind of thing. I U-Haul truck works best when moving your house, but have seen people use horse trailers, vans, and even cars to do the job. If it is not an everyday thing, you can get buy. Although we have all seen those mattress on the side of the road from the guy that tied it to the roof of his car.

At this point, a very small percentage of our usage would be away from possible marina or safe anchorage and that time would be during the right time of year on waited on for a favorable weather forecast. That would make a newer accommodating sailboat more pleasurable. I could "what if" a crossing to death just to die in a car crash tomorrow. But this is from a guy that has never been in the middle of an ocean on a sailboat when the weather turns.
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Old 26-04-2014, 09:46   #64
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Re: Can't Wrap my Mind Around this "Bluewater" Thing!

Sorry everyone, I started this thread before work and am just now able to catch up on it. My sailing has been extremely limited to protected waters. The next boat will be for leaving protected waters and I am fine with that. However, when it's your boat and you are responsible for the lives of your loved ones (some of which are really only out there for you to live your dream), you want to make sure it is safe and enjoyable for them as well. And that just feels like a lot of pressure. If it were just me, I would shave my back and lasso two sea turtles as Capt. Jack did! But for the responsibility of my loved ones, I seek advice, read, take lessons and classes.
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Old 26-04-2014, 09:53   #65
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Re: Can't Wrap my Mind Around this "Bluewater" Thing!

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Originally Posted by bigjer40 View Post
I think what I have taken from all of you is the kind of right tool for the job kind of thing. I U-Haul truck works best when moving your house, but have seen people use horse trailers, vans, and even cars to do the job. If it is not an everyday thing, you can get buy. Although we have all seen those mattress on the side of the road from the guy that tied it to the roof of his car.

At this point, a very small percentage of our usage would be away from possible marina or safe anchorage and that time would be during the right time of year on waited on for a favorable weather forecast. That would make a newer accommodating sailboat more pleasurable. I could "what if" a crossing to death just to die in a car crash tomorrow. But this is from a guy that has never been in the middle of an ocean on a sailboat when the weather turns.
You relatively newer post, which describes what your plans are, has been very helpful in trying to figure out why you asked the question to begin with. Thanks.

You might be inerested in these observations:

1500 Mile Interim Refit Report & 3596 Update

Safe journey, know you'll have tons of fun.
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Old 26-04-2014, 09:53   #66
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pirate Re: Can't Wrap my Mind Around this "Bluewater" Thing!

You guys worry to much..
Remind me of a Yank off a visiting destroyer in Portsmouth back in the 60's... met him in the NAAFI Club and he wanted to know where to go to get laid... I told him the Locarno Ballroom as it was 'Grab a Granny' night.. that's when all the divorcees, widows and 'hubby oversea's' wives go to bogey and pull a guy for a night..
I offered him a lift over.. when we got outside he fell over laughing at my chrome bubbled, 16 mirror, front and rear luggage rack and beaver tail on an aerial Vespa 150cc Sportique...
Mind.. by the time we'd white lined at 60mph through the town he'd changed his mind... no more laughter.. just a white face and wobbly legs.. he'd found out that bikes can lean...
It aint what ya got.. its how you use it... forget the numbers boys.. its all marketing bullshit...
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Old 26-04-2014, 10:08   #67
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Re: Can't Wrap my Mind Around this "Bluewater" Thing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
You relatively newer post, which describes what your plans are, has been very helpful in trying to figure out why you asked the question to begin with. Thanks.

You might be inerested in these observations:

1500 Mile Interim Refit Report & 3596 Update

Safe journey, know you'll have tons of fun.
Stu, can't thank you enough and he finishes with a paragraph that ties in to what Boatman said!

"Overall it has been a fantastic trip. I find it really interesting on the whole debate of what makes an offshore sail boat. It is unbelievable how much BS floats around and how many people have opinions but no experience based on the particular boat they happen to have an opinion on. I now believe it matters far more how the boat is prepared than what boat it is. Obviously you need a minimum standard in terms of hull integrity and rig strength and I think the Catalina 34 has that easilly. The question is can the boat and crew be prepared for offshore? I believe the answer question lies only with the skipper who does the preparation. In our case, we have had a fairly good shakedown cruise and I rate the boat highly. I've had "experienced" sailors who were aghast that I would take my family with no offshore experience in a Catalina 34 from Vancouver to San Francisco - a nasty bit of coast. And it takes some serious thought to call bull#### and say you're up to the challenge having never sailed in an ocean swell. I've also had experienced sailors who say go to the Marquesas and you'll find a lot of less capable boats than yours crewed by Europeans having the time of their lives. And you'll also find North Americans with real fancy boats with a lot of broken bits waiting for parts.

So that's the next question. Are we offshore sailors? Tracey doesn't fancy bashing up the coast. She thinks it's much easier to turn right. But 3000 miles is a big commitment. We'll have an answer by February or so..."
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Old 26-04-2014, 10:14   #68
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Re: Can't Wrap my Mind Around this "Bluewater" Thing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
You guys worry to much..
Remind me of a Yank off a visiting destroyer in Portsmouth back in the 60's... met him in the NAAFI Club and he wanted to know where to go to get laid... I told him the Locarno Ballroom as it was 'Grab a Granny' night.. that's when all the divorcees, widows and 'hubby oversea's' wives go to bogey and pull a guy for a night..
I offered him a lift over.. when we got outside he fell over laughing at my chrome bubbled, 16 mirror, front and rear luggage rack and beaver tail on an aerial Vespa 150cc Sportique...
Mind.. by the time we'd white lined at 60mph through the town he'd changed his mind... no more laughter.. just a white face and wobbly legs.. he'd found out that bikes can lean...
It aint what ya got.. its how you use it... forget the numbers boys.. its all marketing bullshit...
and here it is!


I had the Lambretta 250 (Rebored).
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Old 26-04-2014, 10:24   #69
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pirate Re: Can't Wrap my Mind Around this "Bluewater" Thing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis View Post
and here it is!


I had the Lambretta 250 (Rebored).
From the TV 200..??
Oh... and mine was gunmetal black and chrome.. much sexier..
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Old 26-04-2014, 10:36   #70
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Re: Can't Wrap my Mind Around this "Bluewater" Thing!

Quote:
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From the TV 200..??
Oh... and mine was gunmetal black and chrome.. much sexier..
I never got into Vespa's
LOVED the Lambretta... painted it the same colour as my 17ft cuddy 40hp fishing boat.... Emerald Starmist.. a lovely shade of darkish metallic green.

Yes bored out from the 200. recall breaking it in.... nightmare.. everywhere at low revs low speed for a 1000 miles....
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Old 26-04-2014, 21:24   #71
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Re: Can't Wrap my Mind Around this "Bluewater" Thing!

Oh no, let's not start the Lambretta v Vespa war again between a couple of aging "mods".
It's been all quiet on that front for 40 odd years
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Old 26-04-2014, 21:53   #72
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Re: Can't Wrap my Mind Around this "Bluewater" Thing!

Question: is this (new vs old regarding BW suitability) the only debate that will ever rage on CF? I've only been here 2.5 years and must have seen 100 threads on the same subject.

Onno
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Old 26-04-2014, 22:13   #73
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Re: Can't Wrap my Mind Around this "Bluewater" Thing!

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Question: is this (new vs old regarding BW suitability) the only debate that will ever rage on CF? I've only been here 2.5 years and must have seen 100 threads on the same subject.

Onno
Only 100? You need to get out more! Lol

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Old 26-04-2014, 23:19   #74
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Re: Can't wrap my mind around this "bluewater" thing!

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Its just that some old buggers can not afford new boats so they have to justify the old tubs by deriding the new.

Buying a 1970s boat is like buying a 1970s car.... Is anyone really that deluded to think the 1970s one is better than a 2014? No. Thats why very few dive 40 year old heaps of poop down the highways. And if the do, the go slowly, wobble, rattle and blow smkoe.
Ya...That must be why Mark
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Old 27-04-2014, 00:18   #75
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Re: Can't wrap my mind around this "bluewater" thing!

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Ya...That must be why Mark
Some do not always know everything do they? So don't forget folks, if you do not own the ''latest and greatest'', you are obviously poverty struck and old.

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