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Old 05-05-2014, 04:56   #196
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Re: Can't Wrap my Mind Around this "Bluewater" Thing!

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...They all seem to be real characters, and not necessarily in the best sense of the word. A massive ego seems to be another prerequisite, and a desire to hog the glory. It's always "look at this boat I built", when they didn't personally build a damn thing...


Perhaps I've just been unfortunate in this regard. But I dunno, seems shockingly universal from here...
No, its pretty much universal and not limited with boat building and design. With house building and design is pretty much the same thing. Each future house owner thinks he is an Architect the same way as a future custom boat owner thinks he is one. The Architect or the NA should have here an educative role trying to do a functionally working object that fits the owner personality and tastes like a well tailored suit but many times customers think they know more than the NA and that should be a pain in the ass in what regards functionality and even aesthetics.
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Old 06-05-2014, 22:00   #197
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Re: Can't Wrap my Mind Around this "Bluewater" Thing!

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Steve Dashew sails motorboats now. Its basic sailboat concept comes from 30 years ago. Previous boats were a refinement of the first concepts.

He completely disregards what have been learned in solo racing boats regarding the best hull shape to be driven fast and safely by a short crew. There are a reason for those boats to be designed the way they are and not like Dashew boats: they are more efficient and easy to drive by a solo or small crew.
Every boat is a compromise (you've stated that yourself). That the A40, and Dashew's designs don't look like a Pogo is because they've been optimised for different things. And when the compromises are explained I have no problem with them.

For instance, Dashews' designs are optimised for sailing fast on a reach and _motoring_ upwind. I wonder how well a Pogo 50 would motor upwind against heavy seas...
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Old 07-05-2014, 12:49   #198
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Re: Can't Wrap my Mind Around this "Bluewater" Thing!

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Every boat is a compromise (you've stated that yourself). That the A40, and Dashew's designs don't look like a Pogo is because they've been optimised for different things. And when the compromises are explained I have no problem with them.

For instance, Dashews' designs are optimised for sailing fast on a reach and _motoring_ upwind. I wonder how well a Pogo 50 would motor upwind against heavy seas...
A Pogo 50 is not comparable wit the Dashews last designs. It is a smaller boat and a more spartan one. If you want to compare a different concept for the same finality (to voyage and cruise fast in comfort) look at these two for instance:

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Spirit Of Adventure 65 Blue Water Cruising Yacht : Owen Clarke Design - Yacht Design and Naval Architects

I agree with you in what regards boats being optimized for different things even if don't see the point in optimizing a fast sailing boat for motoring, upwind or otherwise.

The Dashew designs are optimized for upwind sailing while those two designs on the links are optimized for beam reach, downwind sailing, solo or short crew sailing and to sailing fast with little heel. That does not mean that those two boats are not able to go very well upwind just that I would not be surprised if one of the recent Dashew designs would have a better performance on that point of sail and certainly a more comfortable one.

I would certainly chose a Dashew type design if I was going to circumnavigate against the prevailing winds but that is not what a cruiser does, a cruiser sails on the trade winds and for that and solo or short crew sailing the two boats that I posted are not only faster but easier to sail with a short crew.

Regarding the Pogo 50 and motoring upwind in heavy seas, that is an odd question. It is what Dashew does and their boats are optimized for that? Well he passed to motorboats, so maybe he wanted to do that, but the type of sailors that own a Pogo would not do that neither they would want to. A sailboat sails much better on an heavy sea while sailing. When motoring the boat will be tossed around and the motion would be much more uncomfortable.

With really big waves and heavy seas it is normal to open the angle a little to have less heel, more power and an easier motion. The Pogo has lots of power and will not have problems in going relatively fast. I bet most sailors (including me) would not go as fast as they could, keeping the boat on a more moderated speed to have a less hard motion, after all he are not racing and you are talking about heavy seas, something that is not that frequent.
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Old 07-05-2014, 13:04   #199
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pirate Re: Can't Wrap my Mind Around this "Bluewater" Thing!

My latest 'Blue Water' boat...
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Old 07-05-2014, 13:56   #200
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Re: Can't Wrap my Mind Around this "Bluewater" Thing!

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My latest 'Blue Water' boat...
Congratulations Phil! Salty looking little boat. Has it got bilge keels?
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Old 07-05-2014, 14:05   #201
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pirate Re: Can't Wrap my Mind Around this "Bluewater" Thing!

Long keel.. and pure luxury.. 5' 10" headroom..
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Old 07-05-2014, 14:25   #202
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Re: Can't Wrap my Mind Around this "Bluewater" Thing!

C'mon Boatman, that couldn't possibly sail offshore. Just like the Contessa 26, it would be vastly inferior offshore to any new monohull with wider beam, flat hull sections aft, little rocker, large fixed portlights (you know, the ones that are stronger than the hulls and couldn't possible implode in a forceful knockdown). I bet it even has a bilge - although we all know that water will never make its way below when sailing offshore.

Wait, don't tell me that it has a rudder mounted aft of the keel? Much less secure than a (or better still, than dual) spade rudders! I bet it even has a relatively small/fast draining cockpit. Like myself, you just don't get it, Boatman. All aspects of modern monohull design/construction make them more seaworthy; none have anything to do with increased interior volume/comfort in harbour!

Cheers!

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Old 07-05-2014, 14:42   #203
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pirate Re: Can't Wrap my Mind Around this "Bluewater" Thing!

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C'mon Boatman, that couldn't possibly sail offshore. Just like the Contessa 26, it would be vastly inferior offshore to any new monohull with wider beam, flat hull sections aft, little rocker, large fixed portlights (you know, the ones that are stronger than the hulls and couldn't possible implode in a forceful knockdown). I bet it even has a bilge - although we all know that water will never make its way below when sailing offshore.

Wait, don't tell me that it has a rudder mounted aft of the keel? Much less secure than a (or better still, than dual) spade rudders! I bet it even has a relatively small/fast draining cockpit. Like myself, you just don't get it, Boatman. All aspects of modern monohull design/construction make them more seaworthy; none have anything to do with increased interior volume/comfort in harbour!

Cheers!

Brad
ROFLMAO....
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Old 07-05-2014, 14:56   #204
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Re: Can't Wrap my Mind Around this "Bluewater" Thing!

Macwester Boatie? Just ignore this, I read under your avatar. It's too early in the morning here.

Coops.
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Old 07-05-2014, 14:58   #205
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Re: Can't Wrap my Mind Around this "Bluewater" Thing!

I'm going to get a modern aluminum Jon boat with a wide beam and flat bottom and bolt on a fin keel. 20 gallons of water and I should be good to go. What do you think?


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Old 07-05-2014, 15:02   #206
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pirate Re: Can't Wrap my Mind Around this "Bluewater" Thing!

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I'm going to get a modern aluminum Jon boat with a wide beam and flat bottom and bolt on a fin keel. 20 gallons of water and I should be good to go. What do you think?


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Old 07-05-2014, 15:10   #207
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Re: Can't Wrap my Mind Around this "Bluewater" Thing!

I may be screwed anyway. I forgot to add the spade rudder and maybe a lamp base and fishing rod mast.


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Old 07-05-2014, 15:36   #208
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Re: Can't Wrap my Mind Around this "Bluewater" Thing!

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My latest 'Blue Water' boat...
very very very blue looking
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Old 07-05-2014, 15:45   #209
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pirate Re: Can't Wrap my Mind Around this "Bluewater" Thing!

That's why its called 'Blue Tango'...
She dances over the waves..
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Old 07-05-2014, 16:22   #210
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Re: Can't Wrap my Mind Around this "Bluewater" Thing!

See the next post.

Just saw your post of hull design. Looks like a clipper bow. Quite like a Garden design? The rudder looks like motorsailer size. Is that what you had in mind?
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