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Old 08-01-2014, 12:57   #166
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Re: Can't take much more of this global warming

A heavy thread to be sure, and I'm not even going to try to read thru it all.

On the GMO issue though, I will point out there is far less GMO than suggested by many sources, the media included. The term is being mis-used. For example, there is no GMO wheat being grown anywhere in the world and there are no GM fruits or vegetables marketed in Europe. GM refers to scientists selectively altering genes of an organism.

What there is is a vast abundance of genetic engineering--or selective breeding. For years grains have been 'bred' to be pest resistant, drought resistant, and high yielding. Horses have been bred to run faster, and dairy cattle to produce more milk. Are these bad things?

The same arguments may be made about genetic engineering as about GMO, but it's harder to say genetic engineering is a bad thing. At any rate, it's best to get the terminology right.

Here is a link for any who are interested in reading a bit more. Genetically Modified Fruits and Vegetables in the EU
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Old 08-01-2014, 13:10   #167
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Re: Can't take much more of this global warming

It was -23C two days ago... gonna be +9C on Saturday. Good day to hit the Toronto Boat Show
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Old 08-01-2014, 13:36   #168
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Re: Can't take much more of this global warming

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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Regardless of what we believe about climate change; four percent of Americans actually agree that:
"shape-shifting reptilian people control our world by taking on human form and gaining political power to manipulate our societies"

while 88 percent disagree, and seven percent are not sure.

See more ➥ http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/p...ies_040213.pdf


Non judgemental acceptance seems a little easier now
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Old 08-01-2014, 14:34   #169
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Re: Can't take much more of this global warming

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Sheesh why bother - standard denier stuff. I happen to have access to several well known scientists working in obscure non public roles, They fill me in on th peer reviewed scientific process. Its almost unamious
Oh well, that settles it then. I had no idea you were so well connected with scientists who agree with you.

I'll let Judith Curry, Roy Spencer, Richard Lindzen, John Christy, Freeman Dyson and a scores of others know to hang it up.

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This is straight off right wing pseudo science web sites
You mean, like, Roy Spencer, PhD



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The IPCC is a credible body with enormous scientific credentials , despite what nonsense and downright lies has been spread around about it. Most of the developed world accepts its findings with the exception of the looney right in the US. ( which has a problem with anything UN anyway)
Actually no. Their credibility has undergone quite a lot of tarnishing, what with the inaccuracy of all of their predictions and all. And I seem to recall there are other countries who think the idea of spending themselves into oblivion in the interest of fighting something that doesn't matter to be somewhat irrational, and many of those countries are located outside the looney U.S.




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The interaction of Co2 and ACC is complex and absolutely models show widely differing effects and correlations. but everyones says Co2 levels in the atmosphere are anthropogenic and thats not good. ( ps try standing in a room full of Co2!)
Everyone says so? Are you sure about that? As you increase CO2 in the atmosphere, plant growth accelerates and more oxygen is produced. Is that a bad thing? Greenhouse operators who pump the stuff into their glass houses to stimulate growth will be shocked to find this out.

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And yes I mentioned many othe tissues besides c02. we have landfill pollution , water table pollution, lead and heavy metals pollution , water course destruction, rainforest and habitat destruction , particulate pollution from cars, planes and ships etc.

Hence the increasing requirements to segregate domestic waste, recycle, dispose of electrical waste in an approved manner, the tight controls over water table pollution and effluent discharge. Smokeless coal in cities. etc etc. All these are attempts to influence the polluters . this is coupled with changes in tax to incentivise public transport , use of bicycles, electric cars, dissuade the purchase of plastic bags, etc etc, Some of this inconveniences my life, some if it hits my pocket.

But one thing I know, The rivers and lakes around me are recovering for the first time in 40 years, the air in cities has no smog episodes, and I can walk into a bar and not have to change all my clothes outside my bedroom later that night!.

There the little things that effect change and there is loads more where they came from. Bring it on.
Very virtuous of you. And what does all of that have to do with taxing the Bejesus out of everyone to reduce carbon in the atmosphere? (hint: the answer is nothing)

Since you are so well connected to so many well known scientists, could you ask them a question for me, as this would settle a lot of issues for us 'deniers.' Ask why, during the Middle Ages Warming period it could be warmer today with CO2 so much less, if CO2 is the only driver of today's warming? Are there natural processes that caused the warming then that couldn't possibly account for warming today? Also, could you ask them why, with CO2 increasing we aren't experiencing much in the way of warming - in fact none for quite a long time. And while you're at it, ask what caused the Little Ice Age to end and start a warming trend in 1790. Was it CO2?

Curious minds want to know, but let me make a little prediction. You won't provide any answers because none are comfortable. Rather, you will make some statement about right wing America, looney right wing web sites, whatever distracts from the simple nature of the questions.
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Old 08-01-2014, 14:36   #170
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Re: Can't take much more of this global warming

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Regardless of what we believe about climate change; four percent of Americans actually agree that:
"shape-shifting reptilian people control our world by taking on human form and gaining political power to manipulate our societies"

while 88 percent disagree, and seven percent are not sure.

See more ➥ http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/p...ies_040213.pdf
What are you saying? Dennis Rodman is not a shape shifting reptile? Really????
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Old 08-01-2014, 14:47   #171
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Re: Can't take much more of this global warming

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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Regardless of what we believe about climate change; four percent of Americans actually agree that:
"shape-shifting reptilian people control our world by taking on human form and gaining political power to manipulate our societies"

while 88 percent disagree, and seven percent are not sure.

See more ➥ http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/p...ies_040213.pdf
Now tell me something I did not already know. That there is why I keep my battle rifle hidden under my 35 year old and ratty Vberth cushions. Well that and also as a hedge against being eaten by one of those polar bears being brought south on the ice flow thanks to the polar vortex.

I am just glad I kept all my weather gear">foul weather gear from living in Iceland. Have a really snazzy ski hat with a pompom on it............

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Old 08-01-2014, 14:58   #172
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Re: Can't take much more of this global warming

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... taxing the Bejesus out of everyone to reduce carbon in the atmosphere?
Just a question - are you just filling in some idle hours by trolling, or are you actually having the Bejesus taxed out of you as we speak? Your lifestyle would suggest your Bejesus is more or less intact.

Quote:
what with no warming for over 17 years
Psst. Your friend Dr Spencer thinks the trend is still warming.
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Old 08-01-2014, 15:03   #173
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Re: Can't take much more of this global warming

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Just a question - are you just filling in some idle hours by trolling, or are you actually having the Bejesus taxed out of you as we speak? Your lifestyle would suggest your Bejesus is more or less intact.
He has no idea how a carbon tax would be implemented.
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Old 08-01-2014, 15:22   #174
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Re: Can't take much more of this global warming

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Oh well, that settles it then. I had no idea you were so well connected with scientists who agree with you.

I'll let Judith Curry, Roy Spencer, Richard Lindzen, John Christy, Freeman Dyson and a scores of others know to hang it up.
Names of scientists who agree that human activity is having an effect on the climate,.
Just a matter of how much.
And you won't let any of the above know anything, without data and peer reviewed papers you'll get ignored.
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Old 08-01-2014, 15:23   #175
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Re: Can't take much more of this global warming

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Just a question - are you just filling in some idle hours by trolling, or are you actually having the Bejesus taxed out of you as we speak? Your lifestyle would suggest your Bejesus is more or less intact.
I'm not particularly worried about me, but thank you for your concern.

However, mis-guided environmental policies have killed, and will continue to kill a great many people who are not as well off as you and I. One of the things I have noticed about those who style themselves as eco warriors never seem to have any regrets about the ruinous effects of many of their schemes. They feel good about an absolute ban on DDT and the 30 million or so poor people who have died since its ban from a completely preventable disease - malaria - are as Stalin used to say, just a statistic.

But the granddaddy of all poor people killers are tax schemes designed by elites in first world nations to fight a tiny greenhouse gas that appears to have little, if any adverse effect and quite a few beneficial ones, but that increase the cost of energy and development in the third world and that ultimately work to ensure poverty. But like I said, being a eco warrior I guess means never having to say you're sorry.
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Old 08-01-2014, 15:27   #176
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Re: Can't take much more of this global warming

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Names of scientists who agree that human activity is having an effect on the climate,.
Just a matter of how much.
And you won't let any of the above know anything, without data and peer reviewed papers you'll get ignored.
Of course human activity has an effect on climate, and I doubt anyone with any information on the subject would dispute that. And as you say, the question is how much of an effect. So far, the evidence suggests that impact is 'not much', since models predicting that CO2 enrichment would produce effects have all failed. All of the scientists mentioned believe that natural effects overwhelm manmade effects and the evidence is with them. That is just a fact, and the problem with warmists dealing with the reality of the failure of the IPCC predictive models is that there is no plan B. If humans aren't responsible, then why spend billions annually researching and controlling CO2? Lot of money at stake here...
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Old 08-01-2014, 15:28   #177
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Re: Can't take much more of this global warming

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mis-guided environmental policies have killed, and will continue to kill a great many people who are not as well off as you and I.
Lack of environmental/energy policy has already killed more people, and will continue to kill/displace more people, than a forward-looking environment/energy policy is likely to do.

(cough-Iraq-cough)
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Old 08-01-2014, 15:50   #178
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Re: Can't take much more of this global warming

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Of course human activity has an effect on climate, and I doubt anyone with any information on the subject would dispute that. And as you say, the question is how much of an effect. So far, the evidence suggests that impact is 'not much', since models predicting that CO2 enrichment would produce effects have all failed. All of the scientists mentioned believe that natural effects overwhelm manmade effects and the evidence is with them. That is just a fact, and the problem with warmists dealing with the reality of the failure of the IPCC predictive models is that there is no plan B. If humans aren't responsible, then why spend billions annually researching and controlling CO2? Lot of money at stake here...
Well few points, the evidence points to possibly more than "not much". All the scientists believe natural effects overwhelm man made effect to? Rubbish.

Why spend billions? You're extremely fond of pascal's wager when discussing your particular God, does that not apply I know this case?

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Old 08-01-2014, 15:55   #179
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Re: Can't take much more of this global warming

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Income redistribution in the form of grants, subsidies, slush, porkbarrelling and graft is always underway. Look at agriculture and fracking. This is no different.

The point revolves around the amounts involved and whether or not they serve a greater purpose.

What is spent on scientists doing AGW research pales in comparison to ethanol subsidies, for instance. Corn for fuel is about the biggest boondoggle going...but you'll never hear a farmer complain.
Agreed! When all the pop stars started calling for income redistribution, then I knew the game was up. The corn for fuel subsidy is nothing short of disgusting mean spirited politicking.
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Old 08-01-2014, 16:01   #180
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Re: Can't take much more of this global warming

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Agreed! When all the pop stars started calling for income redistribution, then I knew the game was up.
Please point us to this income redistribution plan. Please no generalities, we need specifics.
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